Yes it was a knee-jerk reaction. The old site was functional, agreed, but let's face facts: no offense to Catid, but it was really rather ugly. In any case though, what's done is done, so debating whether the makeover was warranted or not is sort of besides the point now. I at one point was going to redesign and re-code the site when it was still at catid.sscentral.com. But then I realized this "ugly" site as you called it, fully served its purpose. He kept it organized, and kept everything on there you needed. No offense, but I know Riistar can design a better site then that. The code is attrocious (sp?) and the entire layout/iframe of the site just makes it look more ugly and annoying than before. That and I can no longer go there and just scroll down with ease. Have to click in the stupid frame to scroll. The design could EASILY be made liquid, and honestly, looking at how he didn't put anything on the left, probably was meant to be. It all almost reminds me of something I've seen people make in a wysiwyg like dreamweaver. Except someone sloppied the code up even worse. Just my 2 cents. Edit: Also, many others contribute to SSCentral, SSForum.net, and SSDownloads.com. SSCentral.com "A Subspace Fan Site" | SSForum.net "Subspace's Central Forum System" | SSDownloads.com "Subspace's Central Downloads Archive". How hard were those captions. I don't take any ownership for SSForum.net outside of these forums (Swift honestly fully owns them, but calls them mine). My team does a lot of work, and earns their ranks as admins respectfully.