PoLiX

A proxy is perfectly possible, but would probably not be supported. I tried this idea back in... 2002. Me and BD Vine actually had a small discussion on the subject. I was wanting to setup a secondary SSC Biller for zones not capable of being on a SSC allowed host. We had a biller capable of doing such, but BD Vine was very much so against it. But funny enough, being the head of the biller at the time, was very open to making it easier for hosts and zones to connect. And at the time, so was most the council. The current council is made up of mostly elitist egotistical spoiled sysops who inherited the zone they run. Never built it from scratch and seen the work and effort it takes to get a zone populated and running. Sadly a few of the ones who do get it, are out numbered by inactivity, or the elitists, and so everyone suffers. There is a reason I do not wish to rejoin the council, and why the current billing ops are not council members. Ghost Ship will add SSC slots for SSC hosts very easily. I know he rarely asks the council for approval on that. But the council has to approve non-ssc hosts getting ssc access. And as for Dev zones, this was something decided by the council, not by Priit. I talked to Ghost about the situation when Pure_Luck asked about it, and told him and riistar both that Ghost would add it if it was on a current SSC host. But the council said no to them, so asking for a server to deal with SSC hosting of dev zones to be allowed on the biller wasn't gonna happen. So that is where that ended up. All these ideas are great and all. But noone runs with them or fully finishes them. If someone actually had a completed Client, or a completed biller that worked with subgame and asss, and wouldn't mind sharing the source and helping continue the game, they'd have support. Its like a zone, or a website. Noone cares if anyone else likes it, they just build it.

IE: %20 for space

Again, you only know what you hear. Snrrrub's plan was to slowly move off the biller, yes. Some SSC sysops were willing to just drop it and start over as long as they had time for their staff to register their aliases. Others didn't want either. Noone ever said Snrrrub's Isometry was the only biller being developed. That is why he got mad also. Ghost didn't want to use his unless someone else or himself had the source. There was 1 person who ghost had asked to make a new biller, and another who just began working on one and offered it. Noone was forced to switch to ASSS. Actually EG has been wanting to switch since grel 1st released it, they we're just waiting for a stable version. But now The Junky has become somewhat inactive/less developing, so dunno if they'll ever make the switch. He was involved in the whole idea of everything, and was one of the ones asking a lot of questions and for more info on the subgame<->asss protocol. Trench Wars and Chaos started a majority of their work after all of this, yes, but continue regardless. They too had wanted to do it, but didn't feel confident enough, and snrrrub helped with that. And now we see DSB jumping on the bandwagon wanting to get into it all and see what is there too. Take the fact the other 2 most populous zones (Hyperspace and Hockey Zone) are already on ASSS, noone was being forced into it. It was more of a want, and a desire (especially TW for its events) and everything going on gave them the confidence to try. You guys have really only heard the story from the little I have posted here, and snrrrub. So I understand if you think he was the only plan, but he was not. There we're other ideas, he was just the most gunho and verbal about it.

Why ask him, I was there throughout all of it... And yeah, this topic went off long ago though.

Yes and no. See, the issue is this. Most the sysops who post here (no offense) represent mostly dead zones. Not all, but a lot. The major SSC Zones, who are the ones that nothing happens if they don't budge, weren't down to accept a hacked client. They we're up for a new client, and looking into moving to asss (most began working on it, and some still are), but the idea of a hacked client didn't sit well with any of them. If they don't do it for their zone, any efforts are pointless as 4 zones hold 2/3 of the ss population. There was support from many for a new biller that we could control. Put up central scores site again, easier to manage information, easier to add dev zones, etc. They we're all for it. But 2/3 requirements to do this won't work, so again dead efforts. I'm not, nor are other ops, trying to knock everyone down. Ghost is VERY open to new ideas, as most the ssc sysops are. Its just these plans/efforts can't be half assed, as we've gone through that before, and seen bad outcomes. -------------- Back on topic... SSC Access really doesn't help a zone nor lacking it hinder it. Look at Fusion... they started out non-ssc, but had a lot of dedicated staff, so it worked. But SSC is a lot more lax than it use to be years ago.

it or the other 2 billers that we're being worked on. The issue was, client and server modifications are needed for everything to work properly.

Yes, he has. But in this case, I know who it was.

whoever told you that was priit was wrong and/or lying to cover.

Ghost is easy to get ahold of. I talk to him daily sometimes. He is mostly busy with starting a new job, and traveling. Will be MIA for a few weeks at a time too, so I'll be left in charge of all you misfits. Think I'll need psychiatric help after that.

Haven't received a reply from him in a year or so, maybe more. Was a few months after .40 Ghost I know hasn't heard from him since spring?

You gotta make the host feel like it is worth it to pick you up.

It's an issue I may look into helping assist a fix on. But right now, odds are next to nothing of getting SSC. Unless you have a REALLY unique and completed zone.

I'll sit down and do what the faq requests tonight. See where it goes and letcha know.

I thought L.C. went through this before, as did I. Where they wanted Priit's approval, and in L.C.'s case we needed to modify the client or something. Or maybe that was mine... been quite a few years now since I went through the run around with steam. The issue is, neither I nor Ghost nor anyone besides Priit can really get the dirty done with them without having any questions come up. The issue that stopped me dead, was them wanting us to add a link to Steam (which we now may be able to modify in there) in the client, and there was an issue with steam not loading the client properly. This is something I haven't tested since .40 came out, but I then had to tell them about Priit being inactive, and his control in the game. Which then led to them being worried about cheating becoming rampant, and them being connected to a game like that, etc. etc. And sadly a month or so later, CE began going nut wild, and well they kinda proved their point (not that they caused CE, but yeah). Now with .40, cheating is a bit harder (not impossible), but I dunno how the steam client will handle loading continuum. It was causing it to crash steam, run the process infinitely in the background, and/or not even load continuum. You can add custom games to the steam client if I remember right, so maybe that'd be step 1. Seeing if you can open continuum from steam now or not. We can't fix a technical issue there, so if that becomes a common case, then we aren't much better off than before. Though we can tell them to load it seperate from steam or download it from us instead I guess... but dunno. Just some food for thought. Edit: Oh, and don't think just cause I don't always post what is going on, don't mean I ain't contacting companies and trying to get stuff going. A lot of the ideas you're going to have, I have probably tried at some point or another. Doesn't mean they aren't worth trying again, but I'll always be more than happy to tell you my experience and the issues that came up. Most the time its money, or us not being able to modify the client and force a mass re-release of it, etc.

Meh, my mods know not to close them unless they really get outta hand. Threats just normally work with most the members here. And turbo its fine, really. Its sometimes hard to catch my sarcasm.

Wow, I goto to work and the hell that begins... 1. Stop jacking my fucking thread. Keep your Gamersgate thing in its own thread, thnx. 2. Before you go get in over your head and I have to dig someone out of another hole (2nd time this year even), please slow down. I only wanted to contact BDE to see what they could do for us with getting in contact with priit, and what limitations they hold on us with advertising, spreading the game, etc. And see what their opinion of Novaleaf's SubSpace is. I will tell you that they will agree to anything that makes them money off of us. But the problem with this whole Gamersgate idea... When people realize they paid $5 for something they could get for free (and probably download at a higher speed) from us directly, there is going to be some issues. The best thing for advertising we could do is anything we do not profit from, and anything with the big websites. I have recently e-mailed 2 mmo websites about advertising and got some interesting, though conflicting answers from them. 1 E-mailed me 2x with different prices, so trying to see wtf is up there. The problem is people getting too deeply involved with these companies, and feeding them false info. So once I sit down and give them how it is, they either don't reply, or get all angry asking why we wasted their time. IE: Once I made it very blatent to Rapidshare profit was not an option, they stopped communications. I give you full props for trying, but it will end in a big mess. Grav I'll ICQ you the e-mail later.

So with all of these recent interest in them, our stance w/ them, etc. do we think we should maybe try working with them more? They have more of a chance to help us progress, and to help us work around priit or maybe get a more active contact with him. I may sit down and talk with Ghost a bit about this 1st, but I think I may try making contact with them on this subject. Opinions?

Ozaq2 sounds right. Although I'd still be sure BDE would be very interested in someone profiting from something they own the rights to regardless.

He does not own the rights to the game. BDE does. Grav is just saying he needs to call BDE and they'd be all over this new subspace team.

hmm... Firing it up right now. Lets see how this goes.

TW is trying to change, but in a way that splits the community that is left. Well atleast the idea of moving onto their own biller/server. As for everyone wanting snrrrub to do everything for them. I explained that to him over the phone, and it wasn't like that at all. People just needed some sort of starting ground as most zone's developers have very little knowledge of how to implement protocol, so giving them only that is useless. I understood his side, and he understood mine. He eventually agreed they needed some basis to atleast get going in the right direction. I told him from the get go when he came back that developers were far and few, and there wasn't the core group there use to be anymore. He was determined to prove me wrong, but in the end realized the development level in most zones when it came to programming was pretty low. A lot of people who I thought we're possibly their zones best at understanding these things, he said really didn't have the understanding needed. So in the end, his own high expectations kind of killed his plans/ideas, imho. Not one person alone could do what he wanted, but I think he wanted it faster than was possible. I actually remember him at one point thinking a client could be released in a matter of months. A few years ago I would have agreed. But there just isn't the amount of developers there use to be who had a good grasp on this game. ------------------------------- And cham, I tried having fun with it and letting stuff go. Then stupid fucks got out of control and ran rampant. And then every topic was a flame rootbear or flame this guy topic. So I banned some people, and sat back again. If I took this as serious as you think I do, I woulda had SSO out in a night, and would have tons of stuff working on SSForum that isn't. On top of that, I woulda banned you a long time ago if I cared. ------------------------------- As for Ghost, he is still willing to work with Snrrrub on this. But more than 1 person needs to be in control of the source, plain and simple. This I totally agree with.

Warning: Long Post Hak, it is rare I say this... but you have no clue what your talking about. Ghost burned his bridges with almost any connection he had, and pissed most the council / ssc zone owners off by ignoring them and going on WITHOUT their approval on helping snrrrub. Ghost also had a lot of patience with him as for 2 weeks he did not reply to any of his e-mails or requests. It was then when minor things, not stuff like his source for cont protocol, but source for subgame <-> asss connection which he did release and said there was nothing security wise as stake, that he got pissed. Snrrrub even blatently said he felt the zones should figure it out for themselves and he wasn't going to do all the work for them. That is when I stepped in and e-mailed him about doing the total opposite of what we we're trying to achieve. A better community where zones work together, and more people we're in control. After that he appologized and said he was being stupid about it, and he then stepped up and offered to help the zones. By this time the major zones had given up on us doing anything as we hadn't produced anything useful to them (thanks to his withholding of a lot of stuff his access gave him the ability to work on), and being he didn't document anything for anyone else to see or understand, just said it was security, and of course ghost isn't going to trust anything he don't know how it don't work, nor we're the ssc sysops, yeah. (run on sentence, sorry) Ghost does not, and will not run this game like a dictatorship, though many times it has been offered up to him by the ops. Sorry, but the way you guys want to paint him, if you knew the way he is, and knew how many times he has saved this game in its history, you'd maybe have a bit more thanks for him and understand a minor mistake he made, if any really. The part of our convo that has to do with this thread...

Me and Ghost talked about this some, and his stance is I stated it pretty simple and clear as to what happened on our side. I might quote some of what he said later if need be, as he said to. But probably his best: [17:21] Ghost Ship: He was very power hungry and tight fisted with source, (never released) it was the right decision to cut him off. Wonderfull, same issues in 2004/2007 and now 2009, at loeast we are consistent Only person who can clear it up more would be snrrrub imho.

(note, this is all being turned into a page )

Alex I only see on MSN. Leaving him a ICQ message gets a reply when he's not online. Best way to reach him is ghost@subspace.nu. As for snrrrub, sharvil.nanavati@gmail.com is the e-mail he responded to the most. Though most support for anything outside of PriitK's hosting and accepting a new client has been lost. We had a forum on here I created to connect a few ssc zone owners, developers, and ops. And really, it died once Snrrrub left and everything seemed gone. And since talking to most the people in the group, they have abandoned (sp?) the whole idea of it all. Especially since a certain zone sysop has proven a bit of a control freak to a lot of other ops/sysops lately, that divided a lot of efforts even more. Personally I just have given up on it all and just figure i'll keep what I am doing going until it dies. Really got tired of being the only one trying to do anything (well, out of those with the capabilities) to reunite this game and get everyone on the same page again. It was nice for the few weeks it lasted between the large ssc zones. GL to you though grav. Maybe you'll accomplish something.