PoLiX

I thought L.C. went through this before, as did I. Where they wanted Priit's approval, and in L.C.'s case we needed to modify the client or something. Or maybe that was mine... been quite a few years now since I went through the run around with steam. The issue is, neither I nor Ghost nor anyone besides Priit can really get the dirty done with them without having any questions come up. The issue that stopped me dead, was them wanting us to add a link to Steam (which we now may be able to modify in there) in the client, and there was an issue with steam not loading the client properly. This is something I haven't tested since .40 came out, but I then had to tell them about Priit being inactive, and his control in the game. Which then led to them being worried about cheating becoming rampant, and them being connected to a game like that, etc. etc. And sadly a month or so later, CE began going nut wild, and well they kinda proved their point (not that they caused CE, but yeah). Now with .40, cheating is a bit harder (not impossible), but I dunno how the steam client will handle loading continuum. It was causing it to crash steam, run the process infinitely in the background, and/or not even load continuum. You can add custom games to the steam client if I remember right, so maybe that'd be step 1. Seeing if you can open continuum from steam now or not. We can't fix a technical issue there, so if that becomes a common case, then we aren't much better off than before. Though we can tell them to load it seperate from steam or download it from us instead I guess... but dunno. Just some food for thought. Edit: Oh, and don't think just cause I don't always post what is going on, don't mean I ain't contacting companies and trying to get stuff going. A lot of the ideas you're going to have, I have probably tried at some point or another. Doesn't mean they aren't worth trying again, but I'll always be more than happy to tell you my experience and the issues that came up. Most the time its money, or us not being able to modify the client and force a mass re-release of it, etc.

Meh, my mods know not to close them unless they really get outta hand. Threats just normally work with most the members here. And turbo its fine, really. Its sometimes hard to catch my sarcasm.

Wow, I goto to work and the hell that begins... 1. Stop jacking my fucking thread. Keep your Gamersgate thing in its own thread, thnx. 2. Before you go get in over your head and I have to dig someone out of another hole (2nd time this year even), please slow down. I only wanted to contact BDE to see what they could do for us with getting in contact with priit, and what limitations they hold on us with advertising, spreading the game, etc. And see what their opinion of Novaleaf's SubSpace is. I will tell you that they will agree to anything that makes them money off of us. But the problem with this whole Gamersgate idea... When people realize they paid $5 for something they could get for free (and probably download at a higher speed) from us directly, there is going to be some issues. The best thing for advertising we could do is anything we do not profit from, and anything with the big websites. I have recently e-mailed 2 mmo websites about advertising and got some interesting, though conflicting answers from them. 1 E-mailed me 2x with different prices, so trying to see wtf is up there. The problem is people getting too deeply involved with these companies, and feeding them false info. So once I sit down and give them how it is, they either don't reply, or get all angry asking why we wasted their time. IE: Once I made it very blatent to Rapidshare profit was not an option, they stopped communications. I give you full props for trying, but it will end in a big mess. Grav I'll ICQ you the e-mail later.

So with all of these recent interest in them, our stance w/ them, etc. do we think we should maybe try working with them more? They have more of a chance to help us progress, and to help us work around priit or maybe get a more active contact with him. I may sit down and talk with Ghost a bit about this 1st, but I think I may try making contact with them on this subject. Opinions?

Ozaq2 sounds right. Although I'd still be sure BDE would be very interested in someone profiting from something they own the rights to regardless.

He does not own the rights to the game. BDE does. Grav is just saying he needs to call BDE and they'd be all over this new subspace team.

hmm... Firing it up right now. Lets see how this goes.

TW is trying to change, but in a way that splits the community that is left. Well atleast the idea of moving onto their own biller/server. As for everyone wanting snrrrub to do everything for them. I explained that to him over the phone, and it wasn't like that at all. People just needed some sort of starting ground as most zone's developers have very little knowledge of how to implement protocol, so giving them only that is useless. I understood his side, and he understood mine. He eventually agreed they needed some basis to atleast get going in the right direction. I told him from the get go when he came back that developers were far and few, and there wasn't the core group there use to be anymore. He was determined to prove me wrong, but in the end realized the development level in most zones when it came to programming was pretty low. A lot of people who I thought we're possibly their zones best at understanding these things, he said really didn't have the understanding needed. So in the end, his own high expectations kind of killed his plans/ideas, imho. Not one person alone could do what he wanted, but I think he wanted it faster than was possible. I actually remember him at one point thinking a client could be released in a matter of months. A few years ago I would have agreed. But there just isn't the amount of developers there use to be who had a good grasp on this game. ------------------------------- And cham, I tried having fun with it and letting stuff go. Then stupid fucks got out of control and ran rampant. And then every topic was a flame rootbear or flame this guy topic. So I banned some people, and sat back again. If I took this as serious as you think I do, I woulda had SSO out in a night, and would have tons of stuff working on SSForum that isn't. On top of that, I woulda banned you a long time ago if I cared. ------------------------------- As for Ghost, he is still willing to work with Snrrrub on this. But more than 1 person needs to be in control of the source, plain and simple. This I totally agree with.

Warning: Long Post Hak, it is rare I say this... but you have no clue what your talking about. Ghost burned his bridges with almost any connection he had, and pissed most the council / ssc zone owners off by ignoring them and going on WITHOUT their approval on helping snrrrub. Ghost also had a lot of patience with him as for 2 weeks he did not reply to any of his e-mails or requests. It was then when minor things, not stuff like his source for cont protocol, but source for subgame <-> asss connection which he did release and said there was nothing security wise as stake, that he got pissed. Snrrrub even blatently said he felt the zones should figure it out for themselves and he wasn't going to do all the work for them. That is when I stepped in and e-mailed him about doing the total opposite of what we we're trying to achieve. A better community where zones work together, and more people we're in control. After that he appologized and said he was being stupid about it, and he then stepped up and offered to help the zones. By this time the major zones had given up on us doing anything as we hadn't produced anything useful to them (thanks to his withholding of a lot of stuff his access gave him the ability to work on), and being he didn't document anything for anyone else to see or understand, just said it was security, and of course ghost isn't going to trust anything he don't know how it don't work, nor we're the ssc sysops, yeah. (run on sentence, sorry) Ghost does not, and will not run this game like a dictatorship, though many times it has been offered up to him by the ops. Sorry, but the way you guys want to paint him, if you knew the way he is, and knew how many times he has saved this game in its history, you'd maybe have a bit more thanks for him and understand a minor mistake he made, if any really. The part of our convo that has to do with this thread...

Me and Ghost talked about this some, and his stance is I stated it pretty simple and clear as to what happened on our side. I might quote some of what he said later if need be, as he said to. But probably his best: [17:21] Ghost Ship: He was very power hungry and tight fisted with source, (never released) it was the right decision to cut him off. Wonderfull, same issues in 2004/2007 and now 2009, at loeast we are consistent Only person who can clear it up more would be snrrrub imho.

(note, this is all being turned into a page )

Alex I only see on MSN. Leaving him a ICQ message gets a reply when he's not online. Best way to reach him is ghost@subspace.nu. As for snrrrub, sharvil.nanavati@gmail.com is the e-mail he responded to the most. Though most support for anything outside of PriitK's hosting and accepting a new client has been lost. We had a forum on here I created to connect a few ssc zone owners, developers, and ops. And really, it died once Snrrrub left and everything seemed gone. And since talking to most the people in the group, they have abandoned (sp?) the whole idea of it all. Especially since a certain zone sysop has proven a bit of a control freak to a lot of other ops/sysops lately, that divided a lot of efforts even more. Personally I just have given up on it all and just figure i'll keep what I am doing going until it dies. Really got tired of being the only one trying to do anything (well, out of those with the capabilities) to reunite this game and get everyone on the same page again. It was nice for the few weeks it lasted between the large ssc zones. GL to you though grav. Maybe you'll accomplish something.

Seriously... EX: To me SubSpace is a hobby. Something I do when I'm not working on cars, or spending time with the g/f. And now owning a home, when I'm not busy with all 3 of these, I find time to sit down for an hr or so a day and browse the web while handling tickets and idling in game. Weekends, sometimes online more, though not always at my laptop, it's near me somewhere to reply. So in reality, SubSpace to me, is a hobby. What is SubSpace to you?

Alright, I've set silently and watched this, but now that attacks on Alex are starting... As the person who was pretty much the ringmaster in all of this, I guess I should explain. Snrrrub came to me about something, now been so long I forget. Well, he also was interested in how things we're going with a new client, billing stuff, etc. I explained a few things to him, we had some discussions (including over the phone) and before you know it I had him hooked up with Ghost. Ghost had finally decided to give my pestering him for change a shot, and Snrrrub couldn't have timed his coming back any better. So we gave him almost any access he needed, and anything else he needed. On top of that, him having the cont protocol mostly cracked, we figured it was best to keep him close and keep an eye on him. Better to have him on the good side than the bad. Well, then the plan to carry out a new client, replacing Priit's SSC Biller, and getting everyone to begin moving to asss (made the 1st 2 more easily possible) was put into action. Ghost had a lot of ideas how to do it, and was heading the operation. I just spread the word, and got people involved, and helped get support. He went MIA for a little while, and Snrrrub was doing a lot of dev. Well, in time zones began asking for more help with the Subgame to ASSS stuff, and I began talking to ghost about it. Snrrrub wasn't releasing anything more, and said it was theirs to figure out. With lack of response to any request, Ghost gave him 24hrs. Nothing. So SSCA's SSC got pulled. Through a long e-mail, pretty much ending in "Isn't what your doing totally the opposite of what we're trying to achieve?" he finally e-mailed Ghost and myself back, and appologized. He then released more information, and began helping zones a bit. Sadly with the downtime of 2 days SSCA experienced we lost support for him from everyone. That and Ghost's fears he was handing us over to the possibility of another priit, a mistake he vowed to not make again, he cut ties with Snrrrub. So of course, having no support from the community, well from the people who could help him easily implement his efforts, he pretty much has seemed to stop work. He did state early on, if noone was going to support him or if he felt his work wouldn't be used, he wasn't going to waste his time. So I feel this is what happened. It was just a few combined failures on both sides to understand, but this was the outcome.

Good Work.

I be back.

So far so good. Hear at my parents on the other side of town using their internet to look for internet, hah. My dog loves it, as he has a yard to run in now. Runs from the gate on one side of the house to the other, back and forth. So nice to see him happy and enjoying himself again. He really needed a yard. Anyways, should be back in a few days.

After tomorrow I dunno how long until I will have internet again. Hoping to get it squared away tomorrow, but not making any guarantees. Most people who need me got my # to text or call me. If not, pm swift and he'll call me and hit me up. Anyways, back to packing. Gonna make 1 last box trip tonight before I go get the moving truck for the furniture and rest tomorrow. Cya when I cya.

for the price, can't beat it. Nice build dude.

I asked for question suggestions, got very few answers, and fit almost all the suggested ones within reason into it. So... I dunno.

I'll see if I can't dig some of my old favorites up, and hit my bro up for his. He still does a lot of photoshop work. One site I can remember: http://browse.deviantart.com/resources/applications/psbrushes/ Always good stuff at deviantart. Also dude, get on IM sometime or in SS. We needs to talk

I've had no issues with any software or Windows 7. Been using the RC of it for 6 months (4/22/09). I'd suggest maybe trying a reformat Blocks, maybe bad install?

Do you actually even know what the whole "PRIZE" part of the nobel prize is?

Not the churchill bs again... Heard enough about this crap at work... From the website dedicated to churchill: http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/in-the-media/churchill-in-the-news/529-winston-is-back-in-eight-volumns - The only mention from the BBC about it, and barely anything - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/7922428.stm - And why not another Britain news paper, the telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4623148/Barack-Obama-sends-bust-of-Winston-Churchill-on-its-way-back-to-Britain.html - Funny how its all being blown out of proportion here at home. And they did have a meeting and no issues. I actually liked the ones on Israel. Seriously. Its time for them to put on their big boy pants and survive or fail. India I haven't paid much attention to. So, because we're trying to make amends with another world super power, we're wrong? On top of that, I'd find an alliance with russia far more valuable than one with the czechs, polish, or georgians. And as for people who say Russia has no right to invade Georgia, a country who's militia (or some might say terrorist) has led attacks against russian soldiers along the border, Terrorist attacks give no right to invade a country? Really? Mind explaining Afghanistan to me? Or Iraq (without using WMD as they have already said they we're wrong in believing we're there and it was more Iraq's ties to terrorism)? Mexico... the country who is complaining because we are sending illegal immigrants back home? And I remember him saying he wouldn't support Japan in a undiplomatic approach with North Korea as they had begun hinting at going in and disarming them. We have too many military bases in japan (including a brand new naval facility which is a detachment of the one I work at) to just let North Korea shoot missiles at them, but he'd rather go the route of diplomacy first. I'm neither for nor against the guy. But seriously, stop and think about this crap from a middle ground perspective for a minute.

The Zone is now in chaos. Closing this topic.