Sketter

Anyone from Toronto or the Toronto area where the G20 is happening? Watching on the news about a protest gone mildly violent in Toronto.

I like your compromise purge. Make it happen:p

That's similar to my suggested merit system, but I'd think "I agree" would be too general and would only apply to certain topics. I suggest to keep things simple. Going beyond simplicity might make it go unnoticed.

How about an "I agree with this post" for individual posts?

What a shame. Like the next guy i don't want to see any zones shut down, but on the other hand, i see where hoch is coming from. He has claimed to have been brewing over this for two months, and being met with such great resistance, i feel is only right to call on hoch to perhaps extends his explanation. Since the players seem to be folding on you I feel you have a moral obligation at the least. Most of these calls in the real world come down to profits, productivity, usefulness and so on. There could be a truth to the fact he can no longer justify pay for the server, and that could be a factor, i'm sure he had a lot to think about. Hoch isn't one to be hasty, and i consider him to be level headed. But this game is quite a different then a capitalize society. This game is overall run by the players, for the players. Everyone knows that. So though while one has the authority to do what they want, I hope hoch has looked at this at the player level as well. And not neglect that what you might being doing is putting you wants, over the needs of the players. Even if that is done in the utmost good intentions. If the players are not ready, maybe it isn't time. I beleive strongly that all owners, all sysops, all staff in a zone has a moral obligation to it's players, and you should move with the movement of the players, no matter where that takes you. The problem is can the community be strong enough to change hoch's mind. While you petition is a great step, i think your attention is directed to the wrong person. You DSB players (and company) really going to need to band together, and actually do some lobbing on a few people to get this done right. Here are a few notes for some of you. SSC will not remove hoch. At their best, they can suggest to any extent to reconsider. It is not in their policy to remove owners. (perhaps you might want to have that reflected in your petition statement) Yes, even if hoch did not create the zone he is considered an owner. He is entitled to, and can do what he pleases, even if that means shutting down the zone. (this is why large companies invest in board of directors. It gives it more of a democratic approach and disallows such things being done by one person) Due to the fact that hoch is a Billing Op, he will have a presents in the council even after if the zone discontinues. Therefor, any attempts to revive DSB will be met with resistance, and surely be denied billing options. (this is a guarantee) Good luck, I'm actually rooting for you. Sketter

Looks like 'other discussions' isn't view able unless you login can others confirm this please.

Unless your talking about some comments away from this thread, i would say most of us were speaking out of concern, and not talking about how inefficient you may be. At least that is where i was coming from. I find people very direct when they bitch on these forums and don't beat around the bush.

Uumm, from experience the longer you wait the more difficult it will be to obtain it. When I let sketter.net laps the domain host parked it and even pointed it to the exact same site that ssc is pointed to. When I emailed then requesting it back they wanted $300. According to a whois lookup, they locked it up for another year. I had to wait that year before they finally released it, and I could get it for a standard $8.0 So what's the status? Edit: Just did a whois lookup and its the domain host is the exact same that I used with sketter.net, NameAlerts, they haven't renews it yet themselves. I strongly suggest you deal with this promptly before the same thing they did to me is done to this.

Are you sure about that? Maybe it's just me and many years have passed but at one point, the difference from making minimum wage and welfare was a difference of $40, with minimum wage on top., However the issue with this is that most minimum wage jobs do not offer benefits, as where the Ontario welfare system you were entitled to benefits, so to some people, it was more beneficial to be under the system and work under the table. Not that i'm saying welfare is bad, but it's broken. The welfare system needs to create a system to get people out of welfare, so people do not abuse the system. Maybe things are better now, i haven't looked into this for a while now. Umm... that is exactly how the Ontario health care system works. There is this odd argument when people talk about waiting lines. This is how some of it works. In a walk-in clinic, it's first come first serve. If you have a family doctor, you make an appointment, you get seen at the reasonable time you requested, and you go on about your day. At the ER you are assessed from the moment you go in by triage, and seen based on assessment. (someone having a heart attack isn't going to wait for the man with foot pain to be seen first) The wait times comes from specialist (referred by family doctor kind), and tests. (again, those that happen to be referrals, not those done in ER, those are done immediately if required them) However again, based on your assessment, your doctor has the capability to prioritize your needs. Getting an MRI used to be really bad. There used to be really bad wait lines, however with some political movement, the government was forced to fix that issue. (or else fall from power) So even under government run health care, a problem came up, and it was fixed. Another problem is that Ontario has a doctor shortage. This does create longer lines for specialists (none immediate life threatening) however this has to do with credentials being recognized in Canada (let alone Ontario) Not the health care system itself. Canada fails to recognized credentials from doctors who got their credentials in different parts of the world. If you want food for thought, the USA recognizes these doctors that we don't. So if you credentials are from somewhere else, you have a better opportunity to practice in the USA then in Canada. However the system is being worked on. (There is a Star article that most of this is based on that i can't seem to find right now, but over the years we have been allowing more doctors to practice) There is no medical testing i need to do, no pre-existing conditions that will determine if the government will pay for a surgery/treatment. No matter how much my surgery or treatment cost worth, it will happen. If anything, to be honest, i would rather put back some services that used to be covered, back on the system. In the late 90's we had a very right wing Ontario government that slashed away lots of the health care system. It ended up leading to their defeat in the next election (and what he did to the teachers), but the current one hasn't fixed all the holes the last one left. (their no better really, but they know not to piss off the public and not take away stuff from the health care system) I've come to understand that there are some big differences from Canada and the USA. And from what I understand, their brought up in a fend for yourself type of mentality, and help your family, and friends, but forget about joe blow down the street. Now I'm not saying this statement is sound, and applies to everyone. But it's the general understanding I get. There is this argument that "why should my tax dollars, why should my money, go to some one else?" (in terms of heath care) Do you realize that even when you pay for private health care, you are doing the exact same thing? So you pay for private health care. Now say you pay monthly, and for 5 months while you paid into it, you didn't make a doc visit, no ER, no nothing to claim. But say another client from the same health care company (what ever you call them, for the exact same period of time you have been paying for your heath care insurance 5 months) had to make a claim for a very expensive sugary, that the total amount of premiums he paid over the 5 months doesn't even come close to to the cost of the sugary. So in turn, the health care provided ended up taking the money out of everyone else to pay for his sugary. Your thoughts? (i'm sure many of your can't wait to jump on this one) Canada didn't always have a universal health care system. And back in the days when it was also a bill, the private word did their best to stop it from happening. Saying what ever they could to stop it. Yet it passed, and now a lot of us like the system. Sure it can be better, but you can say that about any system, in the private and public sector. The only difference is if it's actually working, and if something is being done to fix what isn't working any more. I wouldn't trade what i have...well, maybe for a UK system. Sketter (go ahead, jump all over this)

Its been years(before zone.com closed its doors to game rooms for supported online retail games) but this sounds exactly what we used to use with MSFS series. I can't remember exactly but it worked as so. You downloaded this program, you then go to zone.com under the MSFS game rooms you find a room with some added info in the subject that allowed u to connect to the game using this program you downloaded. You then become an ATC and you can tab into different airports. The GFX was all radar, since as an ACT that's all you have to work with. You were able to chat within the game by txt OR voice if some1 has setup a rogerwillico(sp?)(that's what we used in the old days) Your radar gave all the simple air speed, altitude direction, etc of a plane as well as airport status like weather runways taxis, etc. It really was a lot of fun. But then as I said, MS decided to discontinue online retail games support, that large community died....then I sadly came back to this game. I even went as far as to get a logitec 3D pro joystick where it gave kickback effects and rumbled and so on. Ah the good old days. Edit: I was really bad at being an ACT, I couldn't type as fast as the pros. Edit 2: Squawk Box and ProController were the programs you used. SquawkBox was the pligin you installed into FS, and ProController was the ATC screen panel. Its all coming back to me now.

The government is not competent to carry out a plan like that, yet we portray men living and hiding in caves can? I'm not saying they did it to their own country, there isn't enough evidence to support it. BUT it is likely they knew about it, and they definitely abused what happened for personal gain. And if I say so myself, did a magnificent job at it, for Iraq, had nothing to do with 9/11. The smartest people in politics are the ones that are in the spotlight. There are some really smart and greedy people out there. And we have been killing over money and power from the beginning. A drug dealing killing another to protect his turf and to keep his client, is no different then killing another man because he wouldn't give up his oil to us for our clients. And then put him on trial for things he did 20 years ago that we just happened to neglect until it became covenant. It was planned so well to a detail, but they can not plan to find a man in a cave. These smart people don't think 2-3 years down the road, they think 10-30 years down the road. What you saw then and now, is what they saw 20 years ago. Its all a good game!

Its unfortunate this wasn't supported by these forums, for I would have loved to have listened in but don't visit the forums enough and miss out. Suggest getting the admins support and try to shoot out a newsletter or set up some other type of communication other then word of mouth. Thanks!

Pick something that give meaning to you and or the server. (Give it some justice)

Obama's problem is simple. He was elected by the left,and when elected he wanted to please everyone including the right. The right doesn't give two shits and will never like the left. While trying to make everyone happy he ended up just alienating those that elected him, and now because of it he lost a seat and can't do jack. Sadly, he did this to himself. The moral, make the people who elected you happy, and not the other side, cause they will never like you.

(mod request to have global warming posts that went beyond the scope of this topic be deleted or moved) A system is abused by the abuser as much as as it can. Brain if you believe that the "supply and demand" is sound, and they won't try to get blood from a stone, then i truly believe you have been blessed in some form to have not witness, and therefore given you hope in that flawed theory. (unless you implement checks and balances(which is what a government is for)) In Ontario, all the car insurance company just raised their rates by I think 6%. Its hard for supply and demand to work if all the suppliers are working together. Taxes are a byproduct of the "cause and reaction" of other bigger problems. Your money is mismanaged at the government level. Of course it is, but your looking at the bottom line, and then say no, i don't like what I'm being charged for, and there is nothing wrong with that, and every right to disagree with. But because taxes is not an entity of it's own, just like a cable bill is not a entity of it's own, and ties in with the company that issued the bill. I guess the difference is you have choices, (in short term) and can switch and or threaten the company. So now you need to look at taxes the same way and look who's running your country and what their doing. This is more long run now, and you live in a country that's democratic. (or so they say) So all you can really do and put in a vote for change and hope for the best. Sure you can say now this gets political, but taxes are political. And when you start talking about that world, it's much more trouble then it's worth, and makes you give up before you even try, and that's why they got you by the balls with taxes. (i don't want to go into depth here, your smart, so i don't need to type more when what i need so i assume you understand where I'm going with this) Here is (take it or leave it) an example that comes to mind about abuse, mismanagement, smoke and mirrors. One of the most widely abused (not sure what word to use here cause i'm not sure where it even falls under) government policy(?) is the "tax incentive." In my city there is property that is being used right now as a race track (the only one in the city) and it's sure s hell not struggling to make a profit. They are owned by "Cordish" If you ever look up Cordish, you will find that they are not short on cash. Cordish has so much money that they don't know what to do with it, so they asked for help from the city for a 32 million dollar tax incentive so they can build a full size casino, expansion of the hotel, from 1 to 4, and a shopping center. Do they need it? No. They have the money to do this without any help. They only issue is that it's some what controversial, and not everyone wants the casino, and they really did try to make this i a "hush hush issue" that eventually got public cause of 32 mil hand out. So with a bit of lobbing and back room deals they quickly put the spin of it will generate tons of money for the city, increase jobs, boost the city status, and bring in more tourism. Nothing wrong with this of course, but it's a 32 million dollar hand out, with zero strings, zero checks and balances of a city claiming to go bankrupt, and just finished cutting some public services, because "we can't afford to keep them running." (have i mentioned that Cordish was going to expand the racetrack with out without the "tax incentive"?) And now, of course, since we're so poor of a city(and much poorer now after giving 32 mil), we now need to slap more taxes. Opps, lets give drivers a harder time, lets make up this administrative fee of $40 per car when they need to renew their license, on top of the renewal fee. Lets tax more for liquor, lets make it hard for homeowners to buy a house by slapping it's own %3 city homeowner sales tax, on top of the provincial sales tax, ect, ect... What's my point? Why the rant? Taxes is the bottom line that effects you and me. But taxes is a byproduct of a bigger issue, that we all turn a blind eye to. When someone makes a backroom deal with elected officials, in tern we suffer for their greed. In my province, there is no boundary to which a private organization can financially back up a candidate running for office. When they are elected, it would be naive to think that didn't come with strings. (like a tax incentive) Not saying that this happens in every case, and i understand that what you look at, and what you stated are about services that you may have never used and wounder why you are paying for it, just like perhaps a channel you are getting charged on your TV bill that you don't even watch. But a lot of the time, everything is a broader issue. We also live in a society where we are taught (or once was) to care for one another, whether they are family, friend, neighbor, or someone across town. Because of this, it became a practice to support one another in a time of need, and this is (if your government supports it) being reflected by the services provided by the government, though your money. Yes, there is abuse, yes there is mismanagement, yes there is someone out there trying to take blood from a stone (aka my rant above), and when they are done, they go out looking for someone else because they can, and because we don't care enough (hopefully i can say "yet") to actually look beyond that bottom line.

Not true. Sure people hated America, but what a lot of Canadians couldn't get their heads around was why he was re-elected...at that point a lot of us did a ton of poking fun of that. (There was quite a chunk of material to use) No offense, just letting you know Bush did have an impact. Bush's second term ended up with a negative impact on how the world saw American people. At least that's how the critics, and political satires played with it.

Don't forget that Portugal (one of the most catholic country) just allowed gay marriages. Not really. The Portuguese Parliament passed a first-round vote on a gay marriage bill, if Wikipedia can be trusted. I stand corrected, however, it is just waiting to be ratified, and its been said it will mostly not be vetoed, and be legal by April of this year. Still, if you know anything about Portugal, you would be surprised people are not walking around with pitchforks.

Don't forget that Portugal (one of the most catholic country) just allowed gay marriages.

If my sarcasm hurt the game (which I'm sure if you have a survey will prove doubtful) I apologize. You need something more centralized to control this. Without structure, you have inconsistency, and inability for accountability and that diminishes progress. And that's where we are today. If you are not part of the system, you are no better then they guy on the street that some how found a megaphone calling out to everyone that god is coming. Look on the bright side...

I think you left out " /sarcasm" at the end of your post. Really, no need to tank me.

Has there been a new removal preceding that has been introduced to remove old members? Or will old SSC members still be eligible for council votes? I would like to quote "Yes, they will be a governing body". Now was that in reference to the following part on the client, or will SSC start to look over new areas to govern? Thanks!!

I think a good sum of us can agree with this. What's Interesting, is that if you really look into how what the subSpace council govern, there isn't much they actually govern. They don't give "zones" access(polix even said GS normally doesn't ask), they don't do bans, they don't advertise, they don't do development, the only thing that has been confirmed was they get asked when adding a zone host. The original intent of SSC was a communication council. (They should have been called SSCC - SubSpace communication council) and that was even said by Priitk and quoted by many others. Unless they change their mission statement, what their doing is just changing people around that already do nothing. Happy Holidays! Maybe Santa will bring us a new client? :X

Ah. Well now there's the reason why its slow. Let's place bets for which decade this will come to a conclusion. And anything that has to do with the council, is already a bad idea.

Lets get this over with. Mod please lock this. The drama has happened, and ended. Every one is happy, ( me thinks ) and despite good old SS drama (it actually was good and entertaining ) it's all over. Cheers to a good read Sketter

Yet you informed me that I have 7 days to collect the zones files cause you were/are going to take it down. This wasn't some malicious attack, it's even been said it wasn't by everyone by those who created it, and those on the other end. What they wanted was a simplistic way of getting the content using s script. They didn't want to sit there and go page by page. They have apologized, and the feeling is that it was accepted, and for it to not happen again. What is unacceptable is to now have L.C. leave the community because of what? guilt? self punishment? remorse? LC and co. you don't give up on life because you made a mistake, you learn and go on with it. Leaving the community is the inappropriate way of handling this to what you may call a resolution. Wipe those tears, lets go on boys.