Nah. The containers I was using were 'vbaccelerator docks' or something like that. They are required for moving the 'office-like toolbars' around, docking and undocking them. They can also dock menus like I was doing. However, there's a different container, the toolbar host, which can (duh) host toolbars, but it doesn't handle dockign/undocking. But this toolbar host has a 'MDItoolbar' setting, which when set to true, adds the min/max/close buttons of the child form. It took me a long time to get used to all these new controls and how they interact with each other, but in the end, they're pretty much all compatible with each other. I'm curious to see if we'll be able to get rid of all the .ocx dependencies... These control use the standard windows DLL's directly, like COMCTL32.DLL, instead of the vb6 activeX COMCTL32.OCX.