ThunderJam

You bring up the bible being contradictory to justify homosexuality. I ask where it presents contradictory viewpoints on homosexuality, and instead of answering, u swerve and ask me to present information. Im not the one challenging it, you were. You said it, and when asked to back it up, you skirt the topic.

Astro i think u simply don't know wat your talking about. Yes men are imperfect so interpretation may not be perfect, but most the bible is pretty straight forward, unlike many of you skeptics who think we have to draw strange correlations to make anything of it. Please show me where the bible presents conflicting views about homosexuality.

Astro half the crap you guys say you can infer tho, there is stuff against it in the bible, so thats really not true at all. You guys say "becase it says X, i can infer that God wants Y" without taking into account that it also says crap againt Y

It's a choice to believe the Bible or not. Obviously your choosing not to, so it is a free choice. As far as life beign scripted, this also applied to what you said in the next post Bak, thats an long long debate. Whether or not God has decided how your life will be, and whether or not you have "free choice." I myself think thats its like we have free choice, but God already knows what we will choose. So hes not necesarily making us choose a certain thing, but he already knows what we will choose.

Oh yea i totally agree with you bak. Lol "homoASSS"

God foresaw them killing him, and it was planned to happen in such a way. Yes people unfortunately tend to fault the jews for not recognizing him, but it was meant to happen this way. The ressurection is a key point in the gospel, without it we would not see that He has conquered death and sin. The fact that he did after taking everyone's sins upon him showed what is in store for us if we believe in him. Well, his death and ressurection was designed to be able to save all of mankind. It gives men a choice whether or not to believe, which we could argue is good or bad. Should everyone automatically have been saved? Seems like that would be nice, but then again we value our freedom of choice so much, who knows.

In case you're wondering, the numbers i placed into your text are to follow certain points that are uncertain and without proof. I cannot argue with someone who makes so many !@#$%^&*umptions. Even from a biblical perspective, what you've said appears to be meaningless to this argument. Sinners go to !@#$%^&*, God sends them there, what's your point? I've established that homosexuality is a sin, God sends them to !@#$%^&*. I don't know how you say that stuff is unsupported by the Bible. 1. Genesis says "Then God said, Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and..." 2-3. If you read the Bible and you only get one thing out of it, it should be that it portrays God as Holy/perfect. And we were made in his likeness, therefore we were made to be inherently good. 4. You disagree with Adam and Eve started the cycle of sin? If we are looking at this biblically, please tell me what PREVIOUS humans could have started the cycle? Genesis 3. 5. I can't even begin on this. From a biblical perspective today's world is awful. Sex/Lust is 1/1000 of the story, and it's role in society alone should justify what I said. 6-7. Already said, made in God's image which is perfect (aka we were inherently good). After the first sin God set in motion troubles that mankind would have to endure because we had literally "fallen." 7. NO ONE LIVES UP TO GODS STANDARDS? You think thats unsupported? Wow, "All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God" (Romans 3:23). I can't even imagine how you think thats unsupported. It defines the entire neces!@#$%^&*y of Jesus coming to earth. Christianity would be nothing if that was unsupported. 9-10. Ok good job, one of these so called "un-supported" statements you can fairly say is my interpretation, but is also an interpretation widely held by many bible scholars and so on. 11. Well if restoring hope to get to heaven through Jesus isn't being merciful when we deserve to never be in God's presence due to our sin.. if thats not mercy I donno what is. 12. Your denying that sin results in going to !@#$%^&*? Or are you denying that "WE ALL" should go to !@#$%^&* for our sin, and thus saying that not everyone sins? Either way seems absurd to me since we are looking at this biblically. You can't even deny that sins = reason to go to !@#$%^&*. And I previously quoted "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Keyword all. 13. Ok i can't think of a particular verse that says this verbatim, and after writing this much already im getting too lazy to search for verses that i don't know off the top of my head. 14. We cannot go to heaven as sinners? I donno how you can debate this, again it defines why we need Jesus and is a pillar of the Christian faith. 15-16. He didn't provide a way to heaven thru Jesus? I can understand you disagreeing with saying Jesus is the savior if your not Christian, but we are looking at this biblically and your saying its unclear or unsupported. 18. Already talked abotu this. How this is irrelevent to the argument: I'm outlining what he has done for us, how we were intended to be, how far we have deviated from what we were designed for, and how he has still provided us a way to get back to his presence despite how far we've messed up. Basically all the reasons he has to despise us. We've given up everything we were made for, and even when he graciously provides a way to make up for it, we in our pride reject the offer and continue in our sin. If that doesn't give him reason to destory us, be it in Sodom and Gomorah or the flood, what does? After all, if we are looking at this biblically, we are all going to endure 100x worse where we are heading anyway: !@#$%^&*. Say if you head a toy company, and you design hundreds of thousands of what become best selling childrens toys. Only to realize once theyve been purchases that there is a critical flaw in them. They have some effect that negatively affects the children. They've "deviated from what they were designed to be." What do you do? If it's critical to the children, you recall the toys. Trash them, make new ones without the defect and re-issue them. Is this so different that God and us? How/Why god is opposed to homosexuality among other sins is for this reason.

Wow thats one her family will be telling people for years lol "Remember the time grandma lost her car to a suicide squirrel bombing?"

1) Sodom and Gomorrah was for more then homosexuality, but yes that was one of the reasons. I guess we could think of them like Las Vegas x 100. The most immoral place on earth. 2) If we are going to use biblical references, hes done more then destroy sodom and gomorah, what about the flood? That was everyoen on earth except for one extended family. However you gotta look at it this way (Since we are using biblical sources)... He created us to reflect him. He is perfect, we were made to be perfect. Adam and Eve started the cycle of sin, and since then mankind has gone downhill. We were once inherently good, and now inherently bad. No one lives up to God's standards, we lie, cheat, lust, and commit other sins on a daily basis. In destroying a particular fallen group of people God was helping restor mankind to what is was designed to be. And don't just classify him as a wrathful god (he is, but thats one side of his duality), but also as a merciful God. We could ALL go to !@#$%^&* for turning to sin (because sin can not be in God's presence, therefore we can not go to heaven as sinners), but he provided away out of that through Jesus. The one person who didn't fall to sin, paid for our sin. Simply saying he is wrathful and destroyed sodom and gomorah for homosexuality among other things is leaving out an essential part of the story.

Control wise I think it is possible. Movement: Either use one control pad in which case you can hold it diaganol to rotate and move forward at same time. OR use two control sticks/pads one for rotation and one for movement. Maybe players could choose which they wanted. You got a L and R trigger buttons for bullets and bombs, you got 4 XY kind of buttons you could use in combination for specials, boosting/shift is the only thing i would think the problem would be. Doesn't 360 have multiple LR buttons like the playstations? like L1 L2 R1 R2 ?? Select could do F1, start could be like pressing the esc key.

Incorrect. Because the bible says its unnatural, BECAUSE GOD CREATED MAN AND WOMEN TO REFLECT HIMSELF IN DIFFERENT WAYS SO THAT THEY ARE MEANT TO TOGETHER REFLECT THE IMAGE OF GOD. Designed to complement each other, to hand in hand represent the best of humanity and god. You jump from Because its unnatural, to God hates homos. Also yea the church is gonna be corrupt. Anything man made will be. However consider that when most people refer to "The Church" their talking about catholics. I don't mean to say Catholics as people are corrupt, but they have a large organized structure, and in such structure is where there is larger opportunity for corruption. Since many other branches don't have one unified organization they fall under, they don't have as big a opportunity to even be corrupt.

And several different people ahve put together their own ss installers that I'm sure include EG.

You can dislike a belief without disliking the people tha tbelieve it. Because are person is homosexual I do not hate/dislike that person. I don't agree with their orientation, but I may still get along with the person. You act like if we disagree with homosexuality, we have to hate all homosexuals...

Just whipped this thing up real fast for rusky, pretty basic and cookie-cutter, but I really liked how the colors turned out. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/tman563/Signatures/Russky2.png

I wasn't very literate when i was saying the thing about jewelry. Yes i know the trend is frmo the bible, what i meant was that christian women don't define certain articles of clothing off or on limits based on specific garment references (like jewelry and braided hair). It's just the idea of dressing modestly as a whole that they are trying to follow. Know wat I mean? Also all the times that sever has said women are shown as tempters of men, there are also TONS of verses in the bibles sayign that a loyal wife is worth more to a man than things like gold. So its not entirely putting them down, it shows how valuable a woman is to a man and it emphasizes the duality of two aspects of life. Male and female were supposed to be designed to reflect God in different ways. The bible says humans were made in the image of god, and the full image can only be seen through both men and women together.

You just can't get away from saying that we "Hate" homosexuals can you? It's just engraved in your mind and no matter what every Christian on here tells you, you still think you know our feeling better then we do. I guess i should have expected you'd take this out of context. It's obvious not all Christian women follow the Bible to the word, just like it was fairly obvious i didn't mean all Christian women don't wear jewellery. The point was that some/many choose not to wear jewellery, revealing clothes, or elaborate hair-styles. It's a choice in the same way most Muslim women visitting my university will choose to wear head-scarves even though they don't have to. In some cases they will file law-suits to make sure they can! Dressing modestly aint just a christian value though, wanted to point that out. That's a typical thing, how many parents raise their daughters telling them to wear as low cut shirts as they can, show as much stomach as then can, only wear shorts that come half way down your thighs. I donno about you, but I don't know many people that would raise their daughters that way. And wat i was trying to point out about the jewelry is, christian women don't not wear jewelry because of that verse. That verses context doesnt have the no-jewelry meaning for today. Rather if Christian women are choosing not to wear jewelry, it is just to be humble. Meh its too late at night, i feel like im talking and unable to formulate my thoughts correctly, this is probably all nonsense.

Christian women don't wear jewelry or braid their hair? That's news to me. Like i said friggin like 10 posts ago, those specific references were made to address fashions of the time. At their time those were considered marks of pros!@#$%^&*ute and the like. There no rules in Christianity that define what women can wear right now, but this is besides the point. As for all the times people keep saying "Tj show me where in the quaran it says they can beat women," i said previously, when i first made the statements that I havn't read the quaran so I can't speak on it authoritatively. What I did say is that all the people in these cases said that that Quaran specifically instructs their men to do so. I'm repeating what they said.

Actually I didn't intend to make this a christian v islam thread... somehow that last sentence in my first post just kinda squirmed its way inthere..

First off like ail said theres a difference between subordination and beating. And I haven't read the Quaran so I cant say authoritatively here, but the people were not acting like the Quaran was interpretted for beating, they talked as if it TOLD THEM to beat their wives. Like verbatim said how to beat their wives and when, etc. All of the corinthians quotes you said are ineffectual do to the context. The church in corinth had been started by paul and after his departure the women turned to a lot of pros!@#$%^&*ution and ill behavior within the church (I can't remember specifics, we had a series of sermons on Corinthians in my church a while ago tho), among a ton of other problems due to lack of leadership. Paul wrote back in letters instructing them to overcompensate by !@#$%^&*uming a very meek role. 1st Timothy saying dress modestly: is there something wrong with dressing modestly? The references to specific jewelry and stuff are to fight against pros!@#$%^&*ution. Obviously certain things were scandalous then that aren't now. When your a parent, if you are, won't you probably tell your daughter not to go out dressed like a pros!@#$%^&*ute? As for being haughty, that is a main point in christianity, not just applicable to women. Humility = a virtue. And like you said yourself, its written in a more sexist time, The bible saying that the man is the head of the household is typical of the time, and of a lot of places now. Beating your wife as a part of religion i dont think was normal then, and definitely isn't normal to still be following now. Even if you are arguing that Christians treated the man higher, we've also evolved and changed a lot. They are still beating their wives apparently. And interesting wat ail said about Jesus vs Muhammed.

Hmm bak, im struggling as to how to word my response. It's more of the fact that they would live by a book that teaches them to beat their wives. If the Bible taught me to beat my wife, I wouldnt be a Christian. Islam claims fo be a religion of peace but their holy scripture tells them to beat their wives and kids? I knew that their culture as a whole is somewhat oppressive of women, but I had no idea their friggin scripture instructs them to beat their wives. How their women can stand to believe in a religion that teaches that they themselves should be beaten, I simply can't comprehend. I don't just take any old do!@#$%^&*ent to be truth. If found issues in the Bible that I thought were completely wrong and inconsistent, I wouldn't hold it to be true, but that's not the case in my opinion.

1) Wasn't one case, i said i searched for it and founds TONS of similar cases. The one that was on comcast.net was just a recent one. 2) It's not some guy being sick on his own, they have all said that what they are doing is in the quaran and justified by it, etc. I can't say whether or not that is true because I don't read the Quaran. 3) It's different frmo a catholic priest abusing some kid because they aren't passing it off as part of their religion. They are a human being who let their desires get ahead of them, obviously still wrong, but we're talking a whole different level. 4) So when I was saying you have compared us, I mean all the times I have seen it said "Radical Christians are just as bad as radical islamists." At least we're (if you count me radical or not, im refferring to Christians as a whole, and im not even catholic, but im standing for their priests on this one) not beating our wives and saying its part of our religion to do so.

I was on my comcast.net home page and saw a video link about some islamic cleric talking about how to properly beat your wife accorind to the Quaran. Unfortunately this computer's sound and video are screwed up so I just ran a search hoping I'd find a article about the same guy, but instead turned up dozens of similar cases. Heres on: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=40276 Friggin crazy. And it's called a religion of peace. He tries to justify it saying that women WANT to be controlled by men. Another one of the articles I found said how they should be more considerate beating their wives then children of animals, which it even said was ok... Some guy in 2004 was publishing manuals on how to properly beat your wife without leaving incriminating marks. I'm disgusted, especially to think that some of you have compared me, as a Christian to them.

From what I've seen of the dude on tv, like you said, hes never been sophisticated. Hes the rugged ex-con who has turned to doing something good, altho he's still goes about it in somewhat unconventional methods. It didn't surprise me he says racist things, and probably wouldnt surprise me if he still smoked pot, and did other crap. what's the big deal? Half the celebrities do way worse. Theyre overplaying it imo.

I'm not arguing any more, but I wanted to point out that allshallperish used a quote about harry potter and pokemon against me... but i never said anything about harry potter or pokemon... what they heck he was quoting I have no idea.

Ask aquarius or jack the monkey