ThunderJam

I'm not going to go spend my time finding do!@#$%^&*entation of studies for you... but Consider the established difference having divorced parents make. There have been many studies that show having your parents together helps you develop better than having them be split. What is the actual part of the split that affects the child however? The absence of one of the two roles: mother or father. You hear of children of divorced parents saying they needed a father figure or a mother figure more in their lives. How could this not hold true into homosexual parents?

Still not sure what you're talking about my limiting my rights, but they can have that view, its fine with me. What i think is wrong is them saying the rest of the world MUST convert to islam and waging wars against non-muslims for these reasons etc.

ROFL!!!! Best thing about it is achmed's laff, and "tribute to bill clinton" lol

Quite a broad spectrum of people you are addressing there. I go to a school that is 35% asian along with lots of other ethnic groups, and last year we were ranked 17th best public high school in the nation by newsweek. From this situation I can see how people new to the country can have a massive drive to succeede because they feel like they need to establish themselves. However you can't quite say that about ALL immigrants. There are problems caused by immigrants and I think saying they are the ONLY thing keeping America running is absurd.

Flawed analogy because there is nothing representing sin. In this case the kid has some reason he is being favored most likely, in Christians case, we are no better then anyone else, we havnt done anything to deserve mercy, we are just accepting it, and you can too. Im not sure what in the world you were asking about jews having less rights... Uhm no thats not what born-again means lol. Born again is coined from a passage in the bible that relates accepting christ to being physically born. It says something like as you were born of your mother's womb in the body, thus you are born with water into the spirit. Born again just means you believe Jeus died for and paid for your sins, allowed you to start from a clean slate. A clean slate being sort of like a new chance at life, aka being born again.

Uhm well first off your asking it in a way that implies i said that, I don't appreciate you always trying to put words in my mouth astro. ^If you were reffering to that, im fine with muslims thinking that, whats wrong with it? However many of them say the rest the world MUST convert, hence we have jihad... im not quiet sure what you were getting at, be a bit more specific.

5th place as of now, 47 votes out of 4th

Like NB said, the existence of God can not be proven either positively or negatively unfortunately. This topic has gone thru that before 2pac, don't jump in late in the game without knowing whats happened.

I think we can easily take third if not higher at the rate we're going. If we start fresh at the begining of a month, and keep this pace we can definitely get first

I don't think their inferior for being unknowledgable. But the point is they have the opportunity right in front of them too.

I faintly remember the name frmo abyss and epoch

Shoulda posted this in politics if you only wanted serious replies. Posting in general is just asking to be flamed

They read the same book, they belong to the same religion, some are even ministers for that religion (my last post), and all they need is to interpret a fraction of the holy book in a different way. It would be nice to dispel Christianity of blame, but without Christianity these people wouldn't exist in the way they do.Consider many denominations, and churches unafilated with denominations, small rogue churches don't require any training to become a "minister." Frankly theres not even one set word for a church leader: Pastor, Minister, Priest, Preacher are all used. I don't know why that's relevent. Once you believe in the Bible, and are acting on your interpretation of the Bible, then you are Christian.It's relevant because you have often said taht Christians jsut get their views from their parents. I'm pointing out that many Christians didn't, and many who did, also lived by non-Christian standards for a while. So it's nost just them believing the only thing they have been taught. 'Getting away with it' was a poor way to explain what i meant. I understand that you regret your sins and don't intend to repeat them. However, due to the 'purity of heart' you possess, you are no longer equal in God's eyes with the un-forgiven sinner. You will go to heaven and the other guy will go to !@#$%^&*. Thus it is not equality from the moment you accept Jesus. You merely believe that you deserve a better after-life for accepting Jesus. It's not pride, it's a kind of religious racism, where Christians get special treatment in the after-life, and non-Christians do not. You give homosexuals the option to join your special group, but only if they renounce what they are. They are excluded, as are people like me who cannot have faith. Hmm, Im trying to decide whether or not I agree with you saying that once saved i am suprerior in God's eyes because God loves everyone. Whether or not you can say he has a special love for people accepting his son I donno... But anyway, it doesnt carry over into the humand view. Even if God views us that way, the human christians don't view ourselves as better. If anything our sin seems worse to us in light of the gift we are receiving. As to religious racism, racism is something you can not help. You are born one ethnicity, and that is that. Anyone has the opportunity to embrace Christianity, so I don't think it can be fairly related to racism. Maybe if people are born gay you could argue that it is racist in the sense that they didn't have a choice in their contradictory lifestyle to christianity, but i thought we concluded in our other topic that homosexuality (at least usually) isn't defined at birth/in your genes.

I'm saying christians are immoral too. Everyone is, no exception. And the reason I can't feel superior for having accepted Jesus is because I havn't done anything. It was all God's work. It's not like I've given millions of dollars to charities, or done something that earned me the right to be saved. I don't deserve it, no one does. That's what the beauty of it is, we don't deserve it, but it's there for us to accept, for free. So evened though I consider myself saved, I'm not above anyone else, because being saved isnt by my own power. In human terms, Im just as bad as everyone.

So if the white man represents God, heres is what your analogy means: If a type X man (lets say a homosexual, that is his sin) thought a type Y man (other sinner, anyone) was inferior to God, but also that he himself, the X man was inferior to God, that makes it not racist by your logic. Are you implying that saying people are inferior to God is being racist? This makes no sense at all astro

Are you kidding? Your example still puts one person above the others. What I said does not put anyone above the the rest. Are that that blind?

We're getting closer to an understanding i think... I'm glad you admit that homosexuality is a Christian sin. I'm not denying that gay people can change to straight, although this can go both ways and straight can become gay. It wasn't really my point anyway, sexuality is clear cut in that at any particular point in time you're gay or straight, i.e. you can never be both (for the most part). Again though, i don't really see the point of discussing this. Basically what you seem to be saying is: "I have sinned, but my faith in Jesus means i have gotten away with it. The homosexuals have also sinned, but they don't have faith in Jesus and are therefore going to !@#$%^&*". Secondly, "The homosexuals have sinned, but they have sinned far more than me. They are also proud of their sins, continue to sin, and even though they know about Jesus, they reject him, unlike me" Is this accurate? I don't see how you can get equality from this. It's not getting away with it, that implies no remorse, and a at!@#$%^&*ude that thinks "It's fine for me to keep sinning." Sure I'm going to keep sinning in some way, no one can stop, but are faith is based on grace, thankfulness, repentance, and an effort to change. And i never said homosexual have sinned more then me, I said we are the same, and we are BOTH continuing to sin. Don't take my saying "they don't know Jesus" as pride. I don't think of myself as better then them because I know Jesus, because as the bible says, being saved is nothing on our parts. It's pure grace and mercy on God's part. I havn't done anything special, and thus I can't think of myself as above them for beign saved. Most christians will tell you that they personally are the worst sinner they know, because in light of God's forgiveness, we become so much more aware of how bad we are. Lack of enlish language can't have anything to do with the religion. Most christians go to the same schools you go to, and if anything they might have good english from reading odd translations of the Bible such as King James. Again though, you said we include to emulate God's perfection by persecuting sinners. People who are doing that aren't true Christians. Faith is a state of being of the mind. Going to church weekly doesn't justify you as being a Christian, its your heart, your mindset. Anyone who kills an abortion doctor or persecutes homosexuals in the name of Christianity is not living by Christian morals whatsoever, and can hardly be called a Christian. This is for the reasons I previously stated about "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" and so on. Also remember that not all Christians grew up that way. Yes a lot did grow up Christians, but there are plenty who didn't too. I would say that most the adults at my church who did grow up Christian, tell you that they deviated from religion for up to ten years from their teen years till mid twenties. Don't think that Christians have never experienced anything besides Christianity.

Become straight: We had an entire thread devoted to debating the existence of a "gay gene." The general consensus was that there is no such thing, and orientation is mainly determined by situations in your upbrining and such. If thats the case that would me it is not necesarily permanent. They were born straight, and became gay, why can't it go back? And theres plenty of people who would tell you they genuinly went frmo being gay to straight, and im not just talking about christians who would say it to back up their faith. As to being dominated by preacher, how you can conclude that is beyond me. The only references I made to anything last post were straight to the bible. Theres not a shred of evidence at all that points to a preacher. Oh and jews can become christians, its simply a person with jewish heritage who believes in Jesus. Something wrong with that? Your last sentence is the only sentence in your post that I believe has some actual value. You're correct I think this can be turned to hate in some situations. My point is that the Bible is not instructing us to hate, rather the people that are hateful are being influenced by a rogue preacher who has strange interpretations of the bible. Then again, if the congregation can not draw the correct meaning from the Bible on their own, but rather listen only to their preacher, then maybe they shouldn't be called Christians anyway.

Quite the opposite, If what you understood from my post was the homosexuality was a disease, then you should have also taken out that I considered myself diseased too. This entire debate you guys have pinned me as being a homo-hater, but in my last post I said I called myself as low as they are (or as you think that i think they are). How is that bigoted? I'm calling us both sinners saying they have done nothing worse then me. If you want to call it diseased, we are all diseased by our inherent sin. Each person may have different manifestations of sin, but it comes down to the same thing. Basically im calling out equality among us, and somehow you liken that to the discrimniation that caused the holocaust. I don't understand how your mind works. I thought equality and discrimniation that caused the holocaust were opposites, if this is not the case please enlighten me.

Actually you didn't give me anything that was contradictory. If you meant the "love your neighbor" was contradictory, here is what i have to say: (which is what i actualyl just posted in the islamic topic as well) If homosexuality is a sin, it is just like any other sin in that it can be paid for by Jesus. It can change. I can't hate them for what I believe is wrong in their lives, because there are many sins I still commit too. The bible says pull the plank out of your own eye before trying to remove the speck frmo your neighbors, and Jesus said about a woman about to be stoned for adultery "Let the man who has not sinned cast the first stone." This is why I can not hate them, for as much as they are condemned by their specific sin, I am too condemned by the sins I have committed. The only difference between the homosexual and myself is that I have found someone who will pay for my sin and help me move on. Since i can not hate them (for reasons previously states), I can still embrace them in hopes that they too can find what I found in Christ. That is why the bible says to love your neighbor. Thought I know something is wrong with them, I can not fault them for it, for i have sinned to, but rather let me pray that they can come to enjoy the mercy that I have found. Even if you don't believe this, does that make more sense?

I'm saying the Bible teaches us that God persecutes homosexuals and sends them to !@#$%^&*. The Bible then teaches that God is perfect in every way. Thus Christianity, if interpretted in one of many possible ways , can lead to Christians wishing to persecute homosexuals in order to emulate God's perfection. I define this as hatred, albeit under a veil of righteousness.Ok i actually think a lot of this debate comes down to this, and im a little disapointed in myself that I didn't think to bring this up earlier. Christians think that sin can be helped right? Thats why Jesus came, so we can do away with our sin. We are saying homosexuality is a sin, and thus it follows the same rules. It can end, it can be forgiven and paid for by God's son. Don't say people don't just change from gay to straight, because it does happen. People renounce their homosexuality all the time, I've seen flyers passed around my public school abotu organizations of ex-gays that are willing to talk to teens who consider themselves gay. Obvious gay people can change, and from a religious perspective, their sin can be forgiven. As a christian, I can not hate a gay person as a sinner, because I am a sinner too. The Bible says to remove the plank from your own eye before you try to remove the speck from your friends. Or Jesus said about a women being persecuted for adultery "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone upon her." For this reason, I can't look down upon homosexuals or persecute them, because just as much as their sin condemns them, I and condemned for my own sins. We are together in our sin, but I can hope that they come clean of it and let Jesus pay for it. This is where "love your neighbor" comes in. Yes they've sinned, they are condemned to !@#$%^&*, but so am I, so instead of hating, hope and pray that maybe they can experience mercy that I have. Does that make some sense, even if your not Christian, can you understand my viewpoint better this way?

You keep saying "dont say love thry neighbor" but no one has lol. And again with i hate homos. Why do i bother being here? You specifically say about me "You think [homosexuality] is evil and unless you like evil you are naturally bound to hate it." Would you like to be me? You obviously think you know my thoughts better than I do. Why don't you just run my life too?

Would u actually quote a person plz, and not just a plain quote cuz its confusing as crap to figure out who you were referring to.