ThunderJam

Thus says "emo girl". I hate when people jump into the debates without considering anything that's been said, and simply throw out a completely irrelevant personal opinion.

Well none were written during his life. Generally people put that in the 70's-90's AD (Mark being the first, and John last). Now consider this, The book of acts includes the telling of Paul being put in jail by Romans, but does not include Paul's death. This is likely because the book was finished before Paul's death, which was I believe somewhere in 60-63 AD. Acts is the follow up to Luke (Luke wrote acts) so the gospel of Luke had to have come before Acts. And Mark is dated prior to Luke because Luke re-uses some of Mark's material (as does Matthew). Given that the secular scholars say 70-90's, a 20 year range, The gospel of Luke and Mark could have been written as early as say 5 years before that date of 60-63 when Paul died. Jesus died in either 30 or 33 AD, so now we are talking about somewhere around a 30 year difference. While still not in his life time, thirty years, in ancient do!@#$%^&*ent standards, is nothing. The earliest bio's of Alexander the Great were written several hundred years after his death, but they have been deemed factually correct. So for several hundred years, no legendary information about him had grown so widespread as to be included in one of the bio's, so why should Jesus' do!@#$%^&*entation have been tainted with exagerations and legends in 30 years? Or even with the pervious scholars dating, in a difference of 40-60 years? As to edits, Paul at least was almost a no-brainer for edits. As i said earlier his death was in the 60's. The gospels were only written several years before his death, and John possibly after his death. Considering he was spending time in prison and traveling abroad before his daeth, I doubt he was editing the gospels. --- Ok so the authenticity is a whole 'nother discussion. While there are no originals of the new testament still in survial, their are more early copies of the gospel than nearly any other work ever (There are several THOUSAND original Greek manuscripts each containing chunks of the gospels). Copies in existence now are from within a couple generations of the originals. This seems like a lot of time, but again by the standards of ancient do!@#$%^&*ents, often times there are no copies until a few centuries later (Tacitus, a roman historian wrote a history of rome in 116 AD, and no copies of it were made until the 9th century, and this is considered an authoritative historical text). Many of these copies come from vastly different geographical areas. For copies to have existed thousands of miles away, and be near identical, it shows that they both were coming from eventualyl the same "ancestor copy." These first do!@#$%^&*ents, tho we have had translations since then, hold up when compared to the current translations. Sometimes on translation makes a bad judgement on a wording, and it often gets corrected in the next translation. I pointed out an example or two of this in the Islamic wife beating topic. In addition the culture back then was primarily oral. Most everything was passed from mouth to mouth. In story telling, apparently it was normal for the story teller to be able to tell only certain parts of the story, and leave out other parts, but there were certain accepted facts that must have always been told. If the community observed these parts being left out of a story, they would correct the story teller. It's actual shown by scientific data that stories could vary up to 40%, while retaining the same key points. The variation though was not fiction, was just leaving some parts out, and only mentioning certain parts of the story. In a time of merely 30 years (or 70) it would have been hard for legendary embellishments to spring up about Jesus, when for example Alexanders reputation was intact for a few hundred years. Considering the thousands of greek manuscripts are !@#$%^&* near identical to each other and from different sections of the world (egypt to rome, etc) it shows they were based on a same ancestor, and that ancestor didn't have much of a chance to be embellished. Also consider that like, Budhist scriptures were not put in writing until the time frame of Christianity, even though Buddha lived in the sixth century BC. We have scriptures of Muhamed in the Koran, but his bio was not written until 130 years after he lived. --- References to jesus outside the bible. You alreayd said josephus, which I'll talk about in a min. Theres also's references by the roman historian Tacitus, whose account acknoledges that Jesus was crucified by the romans, by pontius pilate, under the rule of emperor Tiberius. Pliny the Younger also speaks of christians (related to Pliny the Elder, a well known historian). A historian named Thallus wrote about an eclipse that put the middle east into complete darkness at noon near the time of Jesus death. There are also passaged in the jewish Talmud that attribute feats of magic to Jesus. Although they are passages against Jesus, they do testify that he was performing miracles during his life. Edwin M. Yamauchi (phD) has said that even without any christian writings we would know that jesus was a jewish teacher, many people believed that he prformed healing and exorcisms, some people believed he was the messiah, he was rejected by the jewish leaders, he was crucified under pilate, his followers who belived he came back to life spread so that there were mul!@#$%^&*udes of them in Rome by 64AD, and that peopl in a far range of areas worhiped him as God. --- Yes i acnowledge Josephus' text has info added into it, likely by Christian authors. However not every mention of Jesus in the text is thought to be an addition. Parts that flat out say "He was the Christ" contradict other times Josephus refers to him as merely someone that SOME people CONSIDERED to be the christ. So obviously "he was the christ" was an addition. However even once scholars identified what they believe to be additions, it still says that He won over many jews and greeks. Pilate had him crucified, he was a wise man, that a group of followers did not give up their affection for him after his death, etc. If you like I will post the passage and show what phrases are by general consensus considered the additions. --- Now this doesnt point to saying christianity must be true, but there is plenty of evidence that proves its not bullcrap either.

Bump. A while back a lot of you were saying stuff like "well what the new testament says isnt an accurate telling of the life of jesus" or arguing why the new testament cant be reliable or whatnot. I'd like to open those skeptical questions back up, cuz i've been reading some interesting literature and think I could debate the questions a little better now. What do you guys think are the points against the gospel? Why is it unbelievable? etc

Actually various translations can be very important when your debating specific verses. Like the creation story, the original word for created in a "day" was "yom" which actually has three translations: a day, a several day period, or an extended non-specific amount of time. King James reads John 3:16 as "god gave his only begotten son" which skeptics have used to try and debunk the trinity. They say well if all aspects are equal, how was the son begotten by the father, that seems like one is greater. However by going back to the greek the more accurate translation (as accounted for in the NIV translation) is "one and only son." Theologian DA Carson says that the use of begotten was trying to build on the idea of the son being a HEIR to the father. Inherting every his father rules over, but it became to be taken differently.

MY bday's gonna be 08/08/08 this year Did anyone else have trouble using cell phones after midnight? I'm with verizon, and my whole family, the people who were at my house with my parents, and the people whose house I was at all had cell phone trouble. Couldn't make cell to cell calls, didn't call land lines, could occasionally receive land to cell calls tho. And it wasn't like just after midnight due to increased calling. When I went to bed at 2am I still couldnt call anything lol. But its fine now.

Cre> is working on something like this on twcore for desert storm. Could talk to him.

Meh skins got more reason to play than than favre right now. BTW the ravens were DANG CLOSE to beating out the pats. Just cuz they went 16-0, their route to the superbowl still aint gonna be easy.

You have a "been banned in ONLY 1 zone" option, then next worse one is "netban." Make a "been banned several times/several zones" option.

Exactly... The santa hat is NOT religious, thats why im saying its stupid of them to ban people from wearing it (under the pretense of freedom of religion/separation of church and state). Cuz a friggin santa has nothing to do with the religion, isn't imposing on anyway, whereas a yamukah is completely religious. By all means tho I think people should be able to wear yamakuh's in school. Im just saying if they can, people should be able to wear a santa hat too.

Sure, anti-violence may be as relevent today as it was back then. If you want to believe that's down to God and not people then so be it. However, the argument here is about the Bible's statements that say the man should "rule over" the woman. This is clearly an out-dated cultural thing. Do you think God is sexist? I think you missed my point. Yes that thought is outdated, but your post that I was referring to basically said that if its outdated, that means that the scripture must not be inspired by God. My argument was does everything God say have to be applicable in the same way throughout time? Why can't it be inspired by God just because it was guidlines for a specific culture at a specific period of time? Heres the quote of you I was referring to:

1) I dont mind merry xmas at all. In fact thats how i write it if im txt messaging. 2) But I still don't understand your logic. How does that make sense? Basically we've all been speaking out against PC, your last post didn't make a point cuz ail and i pointed out that the press can't be monitored... and now you turn around and expect us to embrace something PC? What did you say that should make us reverse our stance on this? Last i checked this topic was talking against PC, I don't see what makes you think we need to embrace something PC or be hypocrites suddenly.

Wat ail said. Press are private enterprises, they aren't affiliated with the government, and should be able to air watever they want. You don't have like a right, to not be subjected to religion. If religion exists your going to see it. And like ail said again, Ive never been offended by anyone saying happy chanukkah, so why is it a big !@#$%^&*ing deal if i do anything "christmasy." My school actually had the "menorah" (donno how u spell it, the candle that represent the limiting of oil in chanuka) as the background in our morning announcements for several days, but last day before christmas, the announcements were spent talking about how it is a tradition to give a fruitcake on christmas. What the heck is htat lol? Then they continued to joke that the ingredients of fruitcake are fruit, and cement, and that it has many purpose, such as a life preserver, but not meant to be eaten. If they don't let someone wear a santa hat in school, they shouldn't let jews wear yamukahs either. Its that simple.

Sure Jericho24. himself doesn't do a lot, but what owner does? What he is doing, is allowing this project to happen, which is something vili would not, so props go to him for that. Syrus vili was originally left as a sysop, but now has resigned altogether. As to staff... make that conclusion for yourself, things are getting better, not great yet.

It was gonna happen sometime. She was to obvious and simple of a target for too many people.

Actually dont remember where I know this quote from... but this is basically what it comes down to (for religious holidays at least) something like "Freedom of religions is not Freedom FROM religion." It's freedom to choose whether or not you want to believe in a religion, doesn't mean you don't have to deal with other people who choose diff than you.

I'm about 25 mins outside of Washington DC in maryland. MLK = pc again. gotta give the black man his fair share, even if it means shafting the man who discovered our continent. (Actually i agree with giving MLK day off, im just being grumpy) anyways... PC = re!@#$%^&*ed.

Double post. As to getting a job. Yes most kids can get a job at age 16, but yes it wouldn't be enough to pay the bills. BUT WHY SHOULD IT HAVE TO? No sixteen year old should have to pay his families bills, provide their main income. IF they do, its cuz their parents aren't doing !@#$%^&*. And now look at the black culture we're talking about. If theyre parents aren't doing !@#$%^&*, judging by their character, they are more likely to simply use their parents as a excuse for them to screw around with their lives. They'll get in some fights, not care abotu school, and if someone calls them out on it, they can fall back on "you don't know wat my life is like, look at my parents." However by not trying to get a job, they are setting themselves up to be just like their parents. It's not ending...

Yes i completely agree with you. However the fact that well off kids are acting this way is 100% supportive of my argument. I can understand people in real poverty behaving slightly worse in some situations. However these kids have no excuse to act like brainless fools. No excuse not to get good grades. No excuse to be in detention every third day. Yet this happens. Thats the problem. THEY ARE THE ONES making discrimnation against blacks continue. They have a simple opportunity to make something of themselves, but rather they choose to act like a bunch of fools. All your poverty stricken blacks would say "well if only i lived in a better area" as an excuse for their actions. But look wat the kids in better areas are acting like. Thats the problem.

Ok look guys, yes LT and sky and w/e didn't make this look to good on behalf of the staff, but please, for my sake, come check it out? I would like to think most you respect me as a helpful member of our community, and hopefuly respect my judgement a little bit. Yes theres still roadbumps with the staff, but what zone doesnt have some staff issues? It's worth a look to stop by, you might find yourselves pleasantly surprised. I hope to see some of you there.

I'm not even gonna get into the origins of Christmas... But seriously, in elementary schools they give out dreidels as a part of jewish awareness on chanukah. But someone can't sell red and green hershey kisses... for a non-christian fundraiser?

Losa, i live in potomac maryland. One of the top couple richest zip codes in the country after 90210. Now im not in the rich area, so don't think im some snob, but NO ONE around here is POOR. I could drive 10 minutes away and be in a neighborhood where Mike Tyson owns a house, and pitt and jolie own a house. At the lowest, anyone living here is lower middle class. Black kids at my school waste all the money they want on designer clothes, PSP's, rolexes, but wear a spongebob backpack that they can fit just about no school work into. Yea it is hard for the people in poverty, but the majority of them that are not in poverty are still acting that way.

When creemy said bot plugins have redone, it included increased functionality in many things, including the team evener. It will always even the most recent person to join your team. Many things like that have gone into the release, hopefulyl making the game overall seem more solid.

Even if its not the hiphop culture, something is causing the african americans' crime rates to be absurdly high. Sorry im not gonna restraing myself from being politically correct here, if you guys have a problem with this sounding racist, so be it. The african americans like to have themselves as the underdogs. They whine about us saying the word !@#$%^&*, when they walk around the halls of school and streets cussing and shouting !@#$%^&* at each other. The only discrimination left agaisnt them, is being fueled by themselves. If they want to be like everyone else, try acting like it. As long as they continue to pretend like school is stupid, like putting on a suit is for dumb!@#$%^&*es, etc, their not gonna get that respect.

Lemme say something before I get into the rest of this, I know a lot of you guys got a chip on your shoulder against Desert Storm, but keep in mind that I have been one of you guys that has bashed them over the past several years. MYself and LTNirvana (previous sysop and owner in ds) returned to staff for development, and the zone has made a lot of progression lately. Primarily the two of us, with Witchie NL have been creating a project we call dsv3 for the past 2 months, and we are finally ready to release it. If you guys would like to join us, the release date will be this saturday, the 29th. We plan to load the stuff sometime around noon (EST). Given that we have enough population, we plan on hosting some fun and events sometime between 2-4pm EST and 7-9pm EST incase you guys would like to drop by just then. The project itself returns ds to the turf and powerball gameplay that some of you may remember from ds's past. There is a new tileset, new ship graphics, return to old settings, new map loosely based on the flagging map that has been in pub, and a little more. Should be a good time, I hope some of you guys will take a bit of time to check it out. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/tman563/scorched-earth/screenshot27.png http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/tman563/scorched-earth/screenshot28.png

Thought this seemed appropriate considering the time of year, these are just some personal thoughts that have bugged me over the past several holiday seasons. Two things to establish first off: 1) Everyone knows that religious holidays have been secularized. Santa Claus has nothing to realy do with the meaning of Christimas (birth of Christ). Neither do red or green. These are christian topics, but it applies to other religions too, im sure. 2) To be fair and equal to everyone, my public school system gives all jewish holidays off school. (as long as its not a night-only holiday, like chanukah is from sundown to sunrise, and therefore doesnt interfere with school time). Not only does the entire school get off for the 10% of jews in our school, but teachers are not allowed to assign homework if the only time i can be done is over the jewish holiday. So if we have wednesday off, they can't assign something tuesday, thats due thursday. On our morning announcements we have informative lil speeches abotu chinese new year and chanukah giving a brief description of what the holiday is about. So as per political correctness, the system somewhat is trying to give religious equality, or so they say. Now heres where im bugged. My sister, in middle school, has a friend who wasn't allowed to sell candy canes or green and red hershey kisses in a fundraiser because they were deemed too religious. What in the world does green and red have to do with xmas? Absolutely nothing. I actually have jewish teachers that give out the lil money chocolate things to their students on jewish events. My sister herself had her santa hat taken away that she wore to school one day. How is wearing a Santa hat any different than wearing a (how do i spell this...) yamakah, the jewish skull cap thing. That's totally religious. Winter break is called "WINTER BREAK" instead of "CHRISTMAS break" as it once was refferred to as. So we can get every Jewish holiday off, but you can't even call the break the week of christmas after our holiday? For end of year AP exams, our superintendent of the county schools confirmed having AP exams at a local synagogue when we needed more places to test, but prevented a school from having their graduation at a evangelical church that could seat 5,000 people. Obviously these are all Christian things, but im sure there are similar things for other cases. Kwanzaa gets shafted, christmas gets shafted, jewish holidays here however, get promoted. Anyone thats my lil rant for the day