Unix

Fireblind and rawtard

Pokeball, go!!! I choose you, Niegolas!!!

But the question isnt how to utterly stop the tactic, since we know it's a widely used tactic in many other zones, not just HS. How can we, like many other things in the zone, nerf rushing and at the same time allowing other tactics to become usable? To make it clear, there are differences in rushers in the sense that, not all rushers can actually push well, leak or whatever. It takes more than just items to actually make rusher do well, first you need the items and then the ability to use them. It's not as simple as rep rep rep rep burst burst or whatever, there are reasons why there are better rushers than others. It's not like a team of three rushers will rush just as well as another team of three rushers. Non-bouncing bullets just arent as effective compared to bouncing bullets in base, it's just natural.. The only time non-bouncing bullets are effective is when you're pretty much on top of the enemy in a base. Also, I'd like to add, the biggest reason why rushers are able to in a sense push a team single handedly isnt because they're rushing well or what not, teams will just be idiots and back up. Teams will back up so they dont die, it's not the rusher that is actually pushing them persay, its just idiots falling back for no particular reason.

Rushing isnt about leaking, like Aileron said it can lead to the leak, but the original purpose wasnt to leak. Rushing is killing anything in your way and effectively pushing the opposing team. Cerium, you have coined rushing into "hero mode". I generally dont like making parallels from zone to zone, but a lot of the tactics in which you deem the easy button or hero mode flagging is in a lot of zones. DSB is probably the easiest example and one we can all somewhat know since we've been there once or twice. DSB has a few similar tactics that HS uses. Spamming of weapons and specials being two of them. Now I've never heard anyone complain about either or, granted we have a few different things such as larger ships, one way basing, but in the end it is a very viable tactic and one that several zones use. Metal Gear CTF had zero cost for shooting anything, so you could spam weapons nonstop. As for specials, DSB is probably just as spammy if not more than HS. MG also was like this too, it's not a new tactic in which players use specials to overcome obstacles. The problem isnt the amount, but the power of the specials, not so much bursts, but the repels. Gunners and back lancs also have a sub-role, the leak controller. These ships are used to contain any and all leaks. Many spiders tend to use space mines to try and control them.

So now what?

Just to start things off, Aphasic and Ablative both decrease burst damage (even if it is small). The entire theory about sig slots was to be able to have more variety by the implementation of this idea that, not all sigs are created equal in terms of intrinsic value. Now, each and everyone's values will differ, but there are certain sigs that are not really worth a sig slot compared to others which are obviously worth a sig slot. As items are, if we added the ability to put it more than one sig, the ships would become more super ship styles. From what I know, the entire purpose of these items was to steer away from that entire super ship thing. If this entire format were to be implemented, items would need to be nerfed or boosted depending on the situation. Items depending on how many sig slots they occupied would either be nerfed or upgraded, and then items that arent even sigs could potentially be upgraded and turned into a sig. Items like tw key where if it were turned into a sig wouldnt be worth it to purchase it, if turned into a 1 slot sig would just be one of the two/three sigs you could potentially get. Its more about mix and matching the sigs onto one ship, while at the same time not turning the ships more into super ships. And the reps might be broken, but adding the current sigs and allowing 2 or more on them without changing them, that's just stupid. You also cannot compare one zone to another, especially if you consider that TW is a one hit kill zone while HS isnt, well at least its not meant to be even though there are some occasions it is. Burst are fine as they are, especially if you compare them to the old rush wzl prior to this entire item set, these settings are incredibly tamed in comparison. If you're saying Arnk and Cerium shouldnt touch settings simply because they dont play consistently, why should you even consider any changes to bursts or reps since you're not even a rusher. Players who think its as simple as that are just mediocre rushes at best, I'm not saying its a rocket science either, but at the same time, there is a huge difference from a good rusher and an ok rusher. Reps could use a nerf, but that's the wrong topic for that. (And no, not the nerf that they got that one night, that was just horrible for game play, you could barely rep anything with prox).

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Wouldnt it be easier to just change the mount system since that's where the specials come from? The one item that could probably be changed and have the most effect in the game in terms of item spamming would be defense mount. Defense Mount - 1 rep Siege Mount - 1 thor NEW Mount - 1 burst Then Combo Mount stays the same.

Before I post anything I want to make it clear... I agree completely that item spamming is bad. I thought that the way thors were used were also bad, and I am in agreement that thor storming was bad and I do think that the current system is not the best system overall in terms of item usage. However though, what you're suggesting Cerium is a tad too drastic. What you're suggesting will essentially completely change how basing is done in HS right now and also change how rush ships are made, it will also lower the number of actual rushers quite a bit. The current system the way it is now showcases the difference between a rusher who knows what they're doing and a rusher who is simply item spamming. A better rusher will be able to do "hero mode", but at the same time, that "hero mode" doesnt happen every single time they rush, it happens every so often, but even then, shouldnt they be able to predict and counter any possible "hero modes"? A veteran and a newb are rushing.. Given all things equal in terms of ship builds, who will rush better? I would imagine the veteran would be able to rush better, by a lot, in comparison to the newb. Right now that is what we have.. If you dont believe that, think about how much bashing playercontinuum has been getting, even though he basically has a pretty decent build in his ships. If your max ship stock for repels/burst/thors was enough for just one life at most when used, wouldnt that make AD a lot less useful? I agree that sometimes it can be a bit too good, mainly in terms of when you follow up with a field. Say you do use all your items, effectively you're pretty much dead when you do revive. It's already pretty hard to AD now when they're ready for you with specials, imagine trying to AD when you DONT have any specials anymore, of course you can still field brick or whatever, but even then it's no where near as useful as it is now. We did have a similar situation that you're somewhat introducing. Of course it's not the same, but there will be a lot of similarities. That is, when the current item set was first introduced.. For those of you who dont remember, this is the time when no one used specials, when people simply gunned and bombs were hard to use. Of course bricks and EMPs were used, but even then it was still hard to base and defenders had a HUGE advantage. I dont want to see this kind of basing again, and yes, people did try to work together, but it didnt work, and let's also face it, this is Hyperspace, people dont tend to do teamwork well Rather than changing it drastically to what you're suggesting, why not make it so the ammo depots are the main balancing factor? Instead of the current max, why not make it 8 repel, 6 burst and 6 thor? That way you can still use AD once in a while, but if you dont fill it up when you have AD and you used up your items, your AD is kinda useless, not only that, but you will have to go to the ammo depots still to fill up, that will effectively make people use items well or make people go to the depots more. If you are going to make them go to depots more like this, I would like to suggest MORE depots around center, that way players arent meeting up going toward the depots trying to kill each other. It'll just slow down the game more, and that's not good either.

If there should be another way to calculate your potential value to a team, the best overall way is your net value of ships. More money invested into ships will generally mean more potency in killing things, generally speaking. Of course that's not always true, and there'll need to be a way to balance out certain ships (ie ships with 3M items), but overall that's probably the best way. A player with one ship somewhat equipped is far less a threat than someone with a fully loaded lanc. Let's face it, there are some players that arent necessarily good persay, but because of their ship configurations, they can be quite useful to a team. There is also the possibility that you have a tier system related to this.. 0-100k players 100-200k players 200-300k players etc etc That way one team doesnt have too many certain tiered players. But still even so, the biggest problem right now isnt the system when people enter, it's when people leave.

In theory the current system is nice and solid. However, just like communism, it just doesnt work because of how humans are. The biggest issues come with people who quit in the middle of the game then decide to spec, leave or whatever. So there is a slight flaw in the current system since there's no way to even out teams once they start to get lopsided. Only thing I can think that might work would be if there was an added module that allowed the last person added (minus someone who was the lone lanc) was put onto the other team when there was like a 3 player difference or something.

Point isnt to make ships even more powerful, but to allow more customization, variety and parody in ship building. Also, having two signature mixtures with the current settings would be ... Well wow simply put. Both good and bad point would probably be the increase in choices. One hand, we can customize our ship more. One the other, it makes it all that more confusing for the less "pro" players. Maybe it was a bad example to use Ablative armor but the over all idea ain't that bad. Think its only useful for those sig items aren't getting used alot. Between, does this mean you can have and so the 1 + 2 would equal to 3? It would make the newer players more confused, but when they realize that there's so much more customization than what anything any other zone can offer currently, dont you think they'd want to come back and try some configurations out? I know there are a few zones out there who are essentially doing the packages, so a lot of zones are starting to do the entire ?buy thing and allowing you to customize your ships more. Well, I was getting at letting the slot idea go into each category, not just signature items, so I just used ablative as an example. As long as just three slots are used, you could mix it up anyway you want.

Realistically experience stops being a difference after a certain point. I guess as long as the experience evener was capped off at something, teams could get too uneven. Some possible level off points would be 13k 15k and 20k ... 13k being the experience needed for all the capacities, 15k being about the time you have more than enough money and by then a few well built ships, and then 20k for TW Key.

Guess I didnt really explain it too well, my fault I could definitely see where the balance issue comes into play and I fully agree with that sentiment. The slot thing though works off of the current item set. So a lot of the item packages that each category has is pretty much the same, maybe some number tinkering to make them either stronger or weaker depending on the situation. With each item though, it branches off into available enhancements, and depending on how many slots you have available will determine which enhancements and how many of them you can. So an example would be ablative armor. Bulletdamage -14 bulletdamageup -7 burstdamage -9 If you buy the item ablative, say it takes one slot out of the possible 3. Now the possible enhancements would be.. Add bomb protection 2 slots, add shrap/burst damage 2 slots, add minor bomb protection 1 slot, add more bullet protection 3 slots, and so on. Since only one slot was taken by ablative, you have 2 free slots, but if you wanted to get more bullet protection, you would need to add an armor slot. Now if each category has this kind of setup where you can add enhancements to it or where items in categories are essentially the same, but they have different degrees of potency. So for ablative, there could be an Ablative I, Ablative II and Ablative III, with each needing a higher slot occupancy. Then as each one does essentially the same, but the Ablative I is inferior to Ablative III, but Ablative I allows other areas to be enhanced whereas Ablative III cant be enhanced as easily. Its still keeping the items essentially the same, but allowing more ship customization and more variation in ship builds, and also at the same time allowing greater ease to make more items in general.

How would having more variety of ships be a bad thing though? If I remember correctly, one the reasons why HS was shifted to this item set style was because it allowed for more variety than the other item set prior to it. Yeah, I agree with that.. There would need to be some item tweaking to allow it to fit properly in place, and there could also be some items raised to a the 1 slot sig item, but making the raised items slightly better. There could also be a lot more items made in general to fit these sig slots or have more normal items. There was also the idea of more than just signature items having slots, but all the categories would have slots. Instead of one or two items (minus capacity) allowed per ship, you could have several different kinds of items/enhancements in the same category on one ship. This would allow greater customization and tons more variety... Say you buy pulse laser, and it takes 2 out of 3 slots. You now have 1 slot to use, and there are several enhancements in the gun category.. Lower cost to shoot, multi on, bounce on, lower bullet delay, etc etc. Armors could be treated differently.. There could be armor meant for guns, bombs, bursts, shrap, etc. Instead of picking just one of them, you can pick as many as you want as long as they fit in your slots. There could also be enhancements, like if you choose this armor, you have the choice to do such and such. Then to branch off of this idea.. If you have unused slots, you could always have the slots transferred into another area, of course it wouldnt be a 1 to 1 ratio, you would need to give up 2 to 3 slots to make one new slot somewhere else. (Especially if you made a sig slot to add onto it). Using the same item set would still be possible, but there would need to be some adjustments involved and also some things added to it. Then the items themselves would need to be either strengthened or weakened, but Hyperspace would gain a lot of variety and even more customization.

Sure I'm in. Not captain though.

Actually a draft league doesnt sound too bad, HS might be the only zone that can really pull it off, seeing as how there's no real squads and the way HS is centered around being the ?money system, it could actually work. Then if you regulate what you can do, like limiting fields, bricks etc you could do it in a second pub arena easily. No additional settings needed, just some moderators or some form of referee to manage it during the actual playing so no one that isnt supposed to goes in.

Well after reset now and I'm sure plenty of people have had plenty chance to get a shark if they want.

If any ship can attach to it with summoner, why wouldnt you? So if you're the last one alive, your team is still perfectly fine.

Keep a similar delay/energy consumption has tacnuke for the star shooter, but then either make it have 3 shrap.

Yeah, and a lot of the items in HS are so original, omg a lvl one prox bomb, omg a lvl one non prox shrap bomb, omg a lvl one prox AND shrap bomb Didnt feel like coding the width, and if that's your biggest complaint, that's kinda sad.

You do realize all those values are basically close to HALF of what radiating coils are? +------------------+ | Radiating Coils | +-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+ | Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp | Ships | Max | Ammo | Item Types | | $50000 | $22500 | 5000 | 1234567 | 1 | None | Armor, Signature | +-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+ | Radianting Coils are extremely effective at protecting from bomb and burst shrapnel. | +------------------+----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Property Name | Property Value | +------------------+----------------+ | inactshrapdamage | -16 | | shrapdamage | -516 | | burstdamage | -172 | | bulletdamageup | -9 | | bulletdamage | -2 | +------------------+----------------+ Well either way, if shrap damage is the only thing, make it -250 or something and then burst damage - ------------------------------------------- From what I've been able to tell, all armors have like "grades" do them or specific kind of things that they're innately stronger against than most. Radiating coils is the exception with nothing else being even somewhat similar to it in a downgraded form.

+------------------+ | Venting Coils | +-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+ | Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp | Ships | Max | Ammo | Item Types | | $25000 | $11250 | 4000 | 12 567 | 1 | None | Armor | +-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+ | Venting Coils are effective at protecting from bomb and burst shrapnel. | +------------------+----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Property Name | Property Value | +------------------+----------------+ | inactshrapdamage | -8 | | shrapdamage | -300 | | burstdamage | -90 | | bulletdamageup | -5 | | bulletdamage | -1 | +------------------+----------------+

Why lie for Masa?