SeVeR

i can kill in the weasel fine but i think it does need to feel a little more like a 17th ship. Changes i would make: 1. less thrust (acceleration) 2. A tiny bit faster but still slow (as thats the whole point of the ship to be slow with a really heavy weapon) 3. A little bit more energy like 1300 instead of 1200. This would help it fit in a bit more. I don't want to change it much from what it is now but these changes will make it more 17th than just the odd-ship out heh

Very true Tempest. I like the sets. They still need some work though, probably just on the spider, weasel and maybe the terrier.

yea france got lucky AGAIN! but that was good for england because now england only need a draw against croatia to qualify and can still win the group if france screw up. Denmark look set to have a big win today heh.. they're playing bulgaria!

What about the terr? what does everyone think?

Aw it won't be the same 17th without you around DKR. ... See ya in a week or two. hehe

talion you listed about half of the people who actually post on this forum. OH and we can now add: talion (doesn't offer any constructive criticism) If we didn't have this thread how would vile know what people think of his settings? silly.

From what i've seen so far only France and England have played the kind of football to win Euro 04. We await group D !

You're forgiven tipme. It was heartbreaking to lose like that but seeing croatia play switzerland earlier today england should still make it through. My money is on Italy although they haven't played yet. Their first match is against Denmark hehe I do still have high hopes for England because we're the first team to score against France in 12 matches and would have beaten them too if not for Heskey-The-Idiot! Heskey spent a whole season playing so badly for Liverpool that they sold him to Birmingham... grrr(why is he in the england squad)grrrr!

Just looked at the latest change and well it is a rather large step in weakening its guns. But i do like the new bullet speed. Just that weakens its guns a -*BAD WORD*- of a lot. A nice way of letting it keep short-range guns whilst giving it some firepower would be to reduce the bullet-fire-delay a bit so it can still pack a punch if anyone gets really close. It wouldn't be able to hunt anyone down but can still defend itself from inexperienced kami-kazi javs.

I don't think the lanc should get lv3 bombs in any cases. It's veteran ability could be the repel. As for the rest i'd like to see its bullet-speed reduced so it can't use its bullets to kill at the range a jav uses them for. They'd be more short range which would suit it because it's a long-range bomber. I like the idea of a 3x3 turret ship. What about a 3x3 terr with about 2500 energy, average speed, 2 repels, 6 mines, lv1 spread guns, lv2 slow bombs, x-radar and it'd be the only ship able to carry 3 people (the others would carry 1). It'd be a useful defender/attacker and anyone who wants to turret in pub could play it with no speed or thrust penalty.

yeah i'd have to say i'm fine with the wb also in tests today. The weasel i also think is on a par with the wb and jav which is a good thing to have. A couple of things i didn't like that came up today were: 1. The spider seemed a bit too weak. This could easily be solved with minimal changes tho by just increasing its recharge rate a bit which is very slow atm. Also there is still the burst issue. If the speed of the burst-shrapnel were increased its offensive abilities would be given a little boost too which is needed. 2. The lanc sometimes spawns with red bombs. These just look unnatural on a lanc having played it years and years with lv2 bombs. I don't think this is something thats needed as it won't effect the game very much by giving it what everyone will green anyway or spawn with. All it'll do is get lanc players a bit annoyed. 3. I still hate the terr.. it doesn't seem to be either a fighter or a specialised ship. Its kind of a mixture of a warbird and a spider. Anyways, a good job so far i hope my opinions are of some use to you.

I voted that it is good (better than pub sets). A few things i feel could be improved would be: 1. The burst speed on the spider and terr is very slow and i can't imagine it killing anyone even in small spaces before the opponent has flown off. In msbl this would be a useless weapon in its wide spaces. 2. The warbirds bombs do not cost much energy to fire, considering that they're quite fast and rapidly firing it might turn out to be a bit overpowered. I'd suggest making the energy cost of fire 350'ish before further extensive testing. 3. The lanc: now with a repel can easily fend off javs, weasels etc and it doesn't need much better guns than it had. I'd still like to see it with better guns than before just not that powerful. Maybe tho slowing down bulletspeed rather than the delay would be the answer so it is limited to using them only in really close combat which is really what they're designed for due to its longer range bombs. 4. The terr i still really dislike and i feel it is in need of a makeover too. I don't like the bombs or the guns.. but that may just be my tastes. I'd like to see more of a strike-ship with rapid fire, double barrel guns with a slow bulletspeed: kind of like the dsb terr but with either the same bombs it has now or with the old terrs bombs and of course more nrg. I just really dislike it now and was hoping you'd change it. Thats about all, its better than pub but can still be improved on. -EDIT- also after testing it for a little bit just now the weasel may need slightly slower rockets or just one of them. either should do.

Zeke, your sets as far as specials were concerned were not bad at all. The problem with them was the damage levels that were changed causing it to be very difficult to kill someone in a 1v1. I know you wanted more teamwork but even with that the majority of battles fought are 1v1's and your sets made it very difficult to succesfully kill anyone. Every ship was crippled. The terrier was horrendous with no guns at first and not much better with them. The worst thing was the jav. Now i'm not too concerned about having a different jav in pub as long as the events are unchanged, but what you made was just a slightly crappier version of what everyone was used too. That pissed everyone off who loved that ship and who found that your jav didn't quite allow them to pull off the same moves they always could before. Anyway the main thing was the damage and not being able to kill anyone because that meant that everyones favorite ship was weaker.

I did say changes to the OLD sets.. So you want the jav to change do you?

I am talking about before mummy, i am talking even about before the oldmap was replaced. People stopped playing back then and only stayed in the zone for jav events. I remember it clearly as i have been here since August 1999. Even you say so yourself with 'finally gave up pub'. Thats right mummy was a massive disaster and i forfronted the cause to get it removed but that was just the last straw. Add to this list the terriers super repels, the levis three thors and lack of almost any speed, the lancs 7 bounces on its bombs. A cloak war event is the stupidest thing i have ever seen in this zone. Ever tried a spider elim? you'll see what i mean. The other events tho may be a possibility.. i'd like to see the levi one maybe with each lev equipped with a couple of rockets so it can dodge a little quicker over to an enemy bunker. It'd be nice to have something like the old sets back again though just not the whole lot. Changes to the old sets like these i would rather see up in pub: Wb: more thrust, a little less energy and no xradar, give it anti. jav: same spid: no stealth (keeps cloak), less damaging bursts, powerful emp bombs lev: a little bit faster, one thor (not 3!) terr: 2 reps, 6 mines, other than that is purrrfect! weasel: like you said delic it needs to be a fighter, total change and please ffs make it normal size. lanc: like it is in the current sets, tis a beauty! shark: needs to be the true cloaker of the bunch, give it a rocket just above its top speed so it can make bombing strikes on poor unsuspecting basers. 1 wall. If we modded the old sets like that i'd be in full favour of putting them in pub. So i agree with the changes you want delic i just feel they need to go a bit further.

I remember everyone giving up playing pub before the settings were changed. They were changed because of that. You're right that more complaints came after the changes because the people who made them did not know what they were doing. They were only that high in the staff because they cared more about being a good staff member than playing and understanding 17th's gameplay. It was disastrous but going back to what they were before is not the answer because they were highly flawed to start with. What we have at the moment is fun to play and i would prefer it to the old sets. That doesn't mean i like it tho. There is alot of room for improvements before we can consider a multiship league other than pub soccer (although we still need a better pub map for that). Also.. what were you smokin when you said: "the reason why the jav "gave" you all those events was because people "made" those events for that ship". Imagine a terr, weasel, spider, shark or levi event with any of the old ships please and tell me what you think so i can either laugh very hard myself or have you change your mind.

Maka: you were a noob at the time they were being changed which makes it harder to give them up because you were just getting good at em. I don't know if you noticed that all the vets were sick of the sets back then on every ship except maybe the warbird. We all loved the jav cos it gave us rumble, javwar and sbl but as for the pub-ships the situation was that they were hated just as much as they are now and probably even more. I know you "clung" to vets back in the old days (i don't have a better word sry) and now that you are one you're adopting a common cause to demonstrate that. The fact is they stunk back then and pernille won't bring them back because well... she isn't stupid. On the bricks, i want them back but at a less price like 50k. If someone spends 10 hours a day playing here and has a million points then let them be able to buy those bricks.. lets face it we have shields as a green in 17th which is alot worse. Most people don't have the time to play that long and be able to waste 100k on bricks so a more affordable 50k would be nice and people may consider using it. But shields.. GET EM OUT! i keep thinking people are cheating for cripes sakes!

In response to Akai: Squorrk!! DKR: I want the same thing, i just don't know if vile has the right idea. Pub isn't so bad at the moment actually. But i'd like vile to try it because theres alot wrong with what we have now and if it turns out better which it could then it would be worth it. I'm not someone who dismisses anything new like some people who just want to go back in time to when 17th pub was annoying and nobody played it. Maka: how long were you around before the settings changes actually started?

The only reason i play pub, other than for the amazing lanc, is to save up enough points to get bounce. That annoying bot already switches the teams around far too much and often results in me losing my bounce (once when i had a massive bounty... -*BAD WORD*-O!). So to round this off quickly: i don't want anymore randomised switching of players onto other frequencies because its annoying, u lose your bounty, and if u just bought something you lose a very large and well-earned amount of points. In fact i want the bot to lose its player-switching antics altogether. Equalizing the amount of players on the freqencies is pointless because when the next person enters they'll be put on that team anyway and things will sort them selfs out in a short time without people losing bought items.

people just say jav events suck because they get owned at them by veterans. rumble and javwar are the most skillful events this zone has to offer and the reason the jav looks like a noob ship is only because it doesn't have a load of specials. Think how easy it is to press a button and use a special.. all you really need to know is when to use it. When you have a ship with a high rate of bullet fire, fast recharge rate and good movement it requires alot more skill to beat everyone else down when they're using the same ship. The fact is you can't stop improving at the jav (as you may find out in duel or rumble) whereas in the other ships once you know when to use the specials you're pretty much good at them already. Anyway., I'm from the UK and my teeth are spiffing straight! *sips tea*

i agree with telson.

ah -*BAD WORD*- it i'm retiring anyways. someone else go and make a good map

i downloaded ssme the other day for my laptop. I don't know if i still have that kind of patience but i may turn up with something new in a few weeks.

all my best maps looked like genitalia

I like the idea but the map/gfx would have to look really nice and the settings would have to be perfect. It would be very difficult to make it just right seeing as how you'd need a good understanding of the beautiful game and an even better understanding of settings. People seem happy with sblball but it is far from perfect and the thrust idea doesn't work. If you can make a map like a soccer pitch, with nice tiles and graphics and produce settings that mimic player-positions and incorporate the jav then go ahead.. sblball sucks and i want a change.