NBVegita

Notice the fact that it was illegal for blacks and women to vote, very anti-democratic legislation, with no correlation to religion. !@#$%^&* everything in the 60's was to even the "democratic legislation" for women and minorities. Religion wasn't used there either. And legally if anything happens to a gay or lesbian it is 99% of the time a hate crime. A guy a knew was straight but bartended at a gay bar to get better tips. A drive by happened, where one of their windows got shot out incidentally, as it was a confirmed gang hit on a gang member walking the street, and it was labeled a hate crime simply because it was a gay bar.

!@#$%^&* if he were bill gates i bet we'd get a lot more people playing ss

Because I saw how much you make Saying, sarcastically or not, that one of the "trouble makers" on the forum could theoretically be one of the richest men alive isn't really picking on him.

as posted in the work thread (just now), I don't find it neccesarity to post the amount I make, I'll just say that it is more than sufficient.

I am a senior Systems Analyst for Nationalgrid a global utilities company. As with Hoch, there is no need to post my salary.

Topic split into 3 topics: Loonie American and Canadian education Trash Talk ( in spam forum)

Well its not hard to do that, you can't tell "status" from the internet, !@#$%^&* JDS could secretly be bill gates, and at least I, that is one person, thus not all, have a higher salary than you. Not very difficult acutally.

Everyone's en!@#$%^&*led to be wrong

I'd be careful when using "all of you", "most of you" would possibly be correct.

That is a rhetorical argument as you have no proof that there is no god.

Yes we need immigrants in this country...who else is going to park our cars and cook our fast food? I think the biggest problem in America is that the successful parents of the past, who worked hour weeks to make America what it is today, have been spoiled so they don't care anymore. Even in the middle class and lower class, most people are content with having just what their parents have/had. I would speculate that the American people don't have a lack of education, more so a lack of motivation. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Unless that is if you live down south where the inbreeding has begun to reverse evolution.

We still have too many allies in OPEC for this to be of much real concern atm. As for Chavez, he's done nothing but antagonize not only Bush, but the American people as a whole, and by pulling stunts like this, rubbing the fact that our currency is on a rapid decline in our faces publicly, a fact every country knows, it does nothing but breed animosity. To be honest I could give a !@#$%^&* what he's done for his people, the fact is he spends plenty of time attacking not only our president, but us as a country, and I'll not support any such man. As for our economy, Clinton had nothing to do with it. The "Dot Com Bubble" was a ridiculous economic precedent where hundreds of companies stocks rose faster than a rocket into space, and yet they were making no money. People handed out billions of dollars to unqualified people in the hopes of joining in on the bubble. It had nothing to do with the Bush administration that the "dot com bubble" happened to break right before they entered office, in fact it is surprising that it lasted so long to begin with. Then there were the dozens of corporate accounting scandals, the Clinton's were even in on one in the 's, that cost us hundreds of billions of dollars, that yet again came out right after the Bush administration entered office. Yes Bush has mad mistakes with the economy, but nothing even Bush could do wrong could come close to what happened when his administration was in it's infancy. No president could have saved us from this recession. We will recover from this inflation soon, it will most likely be a president or three depending on terms, but our economy will balance it's self back out as long as we don't pump billions into another war with no returns in revenue. And to top it all off we've gone from the largest number of Americans owning their own home...around 2004 I think, to the biggest housing recession in the history of America, largely due to flexible lending rates with interest only financing coupled with banks pushing foreclosures.

Managing retail isn't bad. I managed retail to put myself through college, after 4 years I was up to 47k/year. Granted I spent a year as a key holder and a year as an !@#$%^&*istant manager before I was made store manager. Being a store manager in retail is nice because you get to make all of the decisions If I had stayed with it I'd be a DM making about 1 1/2 times that by now, but retail isn't for me. Instead I have a nice 8-5 making more than 1 1/2 times my retail salary, and I never have to worry about working weekends ever again!

Sever: Maybe just about any other religion out there? Dare I say middle east? Astro: This is where I disagree. Both of my parents, my mother is even wiccan, my father is not at all religious, have a bigotry towards homosexuals. They didn't learn it from any religion, and their fathers before them hated homosexuals, and they were not religious. As I've stated prior to this, religion is just an excuse for the bigotry, not the cause. If you don't have religion to fall back on you have to use an excuse like my mother uses: "They don't contribute anything to society", or something like that, where as with religion, if you dislike homosexuals you can simply say "Well its a sin in my faith, so I hate them for being sinners." Ultimately you guys are arguing for the rogue preachers and the radical zealots, and from the start I've stated that you will always find people like that in any religion. It's a simply media ploy, as it is with the way you always see homosexuals on tv. When there is a protest the media only focuses on the "God hates ASSS" signs, because they know that it is a charged issue that will increase their ratings. Sever: There have also been a mul!@#$%^&*ude of serial killers and m!@#$%^&* murderers who believed they were doing God's work, or killing for God when they committed their crimes. On an extreme level, you can use just about any holy book/religion, the bible included, to justify just about any act. But since the beginning I've implicitly stated I'm not arguing the extreme.

Actually I don't believe that. Many people believe abortion is wrong, not because of their religion, but because they honestly believe that you're killing a child, or what is to be a child. That has no religious affiliation. Special interest groups take things too far nowadays. Just look at PETA, they've most likely had the most assassination attempts of any organization, and there is no religious motivation there. No I would not. Children have a unique mental capacity, that is lost as you age. Children to not comprehend the idea of religion. Children have a capacity to learn for themselves, so they do not fear what they are told is bad. Case in point, how many of you as children were told not to touch the hot pan because it is very hot and would hurt very much, but did it anyway? The idea of homosexuality being bad isn't brought up very often in churches, unless your priest is a little on the bigot side. As children go, the majority of where they would hear rhetoric about homosexuals would be from their parents and their friends parents. What I've tried to point out multiple times is this: Religion tells us not to lust, be lazy, be greedy, have premarital sex, have multiple partners, have abortions, lie, cheat, steal, not to indulge in homosexual acts, ect. Why then, of all of the things that people are sent to !@#$%^&* for, and people are !@#$%^&*ed for, does this religion breed hatred only/mostly for homosexuals and not other more serious sins? Every statement I've made I've used the disclaimer that this is excluding the fanatics/zealots. Your interpretation is an extreme one, same as in an earlier post that you said the bible could be interpreted to promote the killing of abortion doctors. Only a zealot/fanatic, or someone who is not of a solid state of mind could come to the conclusions that you are suggesting. I've never disagreed with that from the beginning.

I don't have time to address sever as its late, but as for astro, I do agree that if the parents tell their children something is a sin, they will think it is bad. I don't think its the religion that actually has the influence on the children, I think it is the parents. Furthermore they are taught about all of the sins, yet as you get older, you find that you encounter greed, lust, gluttony, ect, in your personal life. So eventually you phase those out as being such bad items because you can relate to them. I think what breeds a dislike/hatred for homosexuality is the fact that a lot of people never feel that in their lives. People who are self conscious always try to point out the flaws in others. Well when you commit most of the sins in the bible yourself, you have to try to pick on the few that cannot be turned on to you. Unfortunately homosexuality is one of the few sins in the bible that isn't illegal, or committed by the masses on a daily basis. My entire thesis from the beginning is that adults simply use religion as an excuse for pointing out the "flaws" in fellow human beings. The most influential people in a child's life are his/her parents. So no matter what a priest tells you, if your parents tell you the opposite, most children will listen to their parents. Part of the bigotry stems from the !@#$%^&*ociation of homosexuals with aids and other std's. Another issue ( I studied for a minor in pysch in college) is that a large portion of men admit to having some homosexual feelings or thoughts throughout their lives. This is over compensated by presenting a gay-bashing mentality so as to ensure that people won't !@#$%^&*ociate you with homosexuals. It's simply easier to admit to hating gays because of your religion than it is to admit that it makes you feel awkward that you've had homosexual feelings.

A) I never said you did. You are stating that the teaching of the church and bible are breeding hatred for homosexuality, which is equivalent to teaching people to hate homosexuals. My point is simple, you could replace "homosexuals" with any sin: "If you can't see how worshipping a God that sends sloths to !@#$%^&* is going to breed hatred for sloths among followers of that God, then this discussion is already over." "If you can't see how worshipping a God that sends greedy people to !@#$%^&* is going to breed hatred for greedy people among followers of that God, then this discussion is already over" "If you can't see how worshipping a God that sends adulterers to !@#$%^&* is going to breed hatred for adulterers among followers of that God, then this discussion is already over." So upon your theory, you can theorize that: "worshipping a God that sends [insert sin] to !@#$%^&* is going to breed hatred for [insert sin] among followers of that God" Based on the fact that the majority of Christians, at least that I can personally contest to, do not "hate" anyone for any of the seven deadlies, in fact pride is a rather well thought of sin, it would be a terrible conclusion that because homosexuality is a sin, a minor one at that, it would "breed hatred for homosexuals".* I just don't know how much simpler I can get. * This does exclude zealots and religious "fanatics" which are not of the norm in talking about religion.

But using that same argument, you could extend and say that the Christian god hates people who have premarital sex, people who sleep with multiple partners, people who are greedy, hates people who are lazy, people who lust, people who have or do get angry, people who have exuberant pride any anyone who has ever envied someone. If you use the conclusion that because the Christian god sent a group of people to !@#$%^&*, for all of the deadly sins, and then minor sins (which homosexuality would fall under I suppose), and by doing that it can breed hate for homosexuals, well then I say that its not bigotry as Christians would then hate everyone. The Christian god has condemned hundreds of thousands of people to eternal !@#$%^&*ation for each of the sins listed above, and I think that would breed more hatred than an act, included with many other more serious sins, which destroyed one !@#$%^&*ed city and a near by city accidentally. I guess I didn't figure I had to get that specific, but do you now, in any capacity, see how ridiculous the claim you are making is? This was one of the most vile cities ever known. !@#$%^&* the rich used to give money to the poor, and then tell their vendors not to accept it, so then the poor would gain hope, at actually having money to eat or get shelter, and then they would starve to death because no one would take it. Then once they died the rich would take the money off their bodies and laugh about it. It was said that for sport they would tie an unwilling woman down and have an animal ravish her body. I mean I could go on for ages. I would say such a minor infraction as homosexuality would not cause an interpretation that god hates homosexuality, and ASSS them to !@#$%^&*. (it wouldn't be god killing them over and over again, it would be satan). But if you still insist that such a minor infraction, couple with such serious infractions would cause hatred for homosexuality, then I say that Christians have a much stronger hate for the rest of us, as I don't know a single person alive who is not guilty of multiple offenses of multiple deadly sins, whom don't even know what a confessional looks like, and being that is the only way to repent for these deadly sins, is automatically destined to eternal !@#$%^&*ation. Even if you claim to be righteous, someone in your bloodline wasn't. "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me," Upon your conclusion: The Christian God, and all of the followers worshiping the Christian God hate us all.

As stated in a prior posts, none of your reasonings would lead a normal person, with no prior dislike/hate of homosexuals to believe that their god hates homosexuals. I exclude zealots and people who have prior dislike/hatred for homosexuals. And for those who would try to hide behind their faith, their faith is merely and excuse for the bigotry, not the cause. Actually the bit about homosexuality is just the most publicized part used by those who dislike homosexuality to try to prove that their god destroyed people for it. People of the city committed just about every deadly sin there was and you, along with these people, are trying to say that it was simply or mostly due to homosexuality, not the murder, theivery, adultry, blasphemy, ect. that the city was wiped out? I would say that is a pretty unfounded jump to a pretty bad conclusion.

But you're jumping to the conclusion that simply because you disagree with a belief, that inherently causes ( in some people) a hatred of people who follow that belief. I would say that it ultimately would not be the religion, not including the redical cases where a select few radical churches actually tell you to hate all non-Christians, but moreso on each singular person for "hating" homosexuals. Hate is such a strong word to begin with, but simply telling you that homosexuality is immoral and or wrong is not enough to drive someone to hate homosexuals. I know many a man who cannot stand homosexuals, or as you would put it, many a man who hates homosexuals, with no religious background. And people with a strong religious background who can simply accept that it is an alternate lifestyle. Homosexuality is such a high charged issue in our society, with many people embracing and hating it all at once. Yet ironically the Christian church teaches that it is also immoral and wrong to have premarital relations, but you don't see christians "hating" people who do. I don't often defend Catholicism, but in this case I simply don't agree that the church is spreading hate for homosexuals by simply disagreeing with their lifestyle. I know you will always find radical examples where people do hate homosexuals simply because of the church, but that is a rarity.

On the flip side, what if Christ had led a full life, !@#$%^&*uming the Christian belief that he is God's son, that he might have accomplished salvation of all of man? Possibly the reverse of Adam and Eve.

Jumping in at the middle, so I'm just addressing thunders comment: I completely agree. I dislike the beliefs and belief system of Christianity, but I do not dislike Christians as a whole, or a person simply for being Christian. Well put Thunder.