AstroProdigy

Some means like half of them. A few means a small amount.

No Clinton didn't have that chance, but I like how your so willing to buy into anything you're told. I think this is the campaign idea for Republicans in 2006. Say it's Clinton's fault so people ignore the GOP's complete and utter incompetence. Republicans take things to new lows. President Bush had 9 months of loud warnings about September 11 and chose to play golf instead.

Won't let me again.

Sorry let me reply to your claim about the Jews in Iran. Iran has a Jewish population half the size as it used to be that has absolutely no access to the outside Jewish world and no ability to leave and is oppressed. I didn't reply because I wrote out a long post and then couldn't post it because copying and pasting ur quotes was not allowed and when I put what I wrote on a word do!@#$%^&*ent to put up later, but it turns out copying and pasting is not allowed. Venezuela is hardly anywhere near the level of Iran. Venezuela is a socialist democracy. Iran is a theocracy. That's a huge difference. Not only that, but Iran's extremist clerics have been goating on the people for decades to hate us and wish us dead. Let me rewrite my response to the other post if it's important to you.

I think Cheney and Rumsfeld have done their share of sending the world to !@#$%^&*. President Bush is the decider, but he's swayed by his cabinet, especially in this administration where Cheney and Rumsfeld are like second and third presidents we didn't vote for. It's not all Bush's fault for making stupid decisions. Some of it is Bush's fault for letting power hungry madmen on par with Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong Il make decisions.

I think it's generally agreed Iraq was a mistake and the administration incompetenced their way to a terrible situation, but that pulling out now is just as stupid. However, although I disagree with setting a deadline I can see where they're coming from. I think the vast majority of Democrats do not support simply pulling all our troops out now. You should rephrase that. Some Democrats don't support a timeline while some do, but very few actually support pulling all our troops out at once now.

No most adults are ignorant. I'm 19 now and I still say i was smarter than most adults on the Clinton administration. That's not saying I knew a lot it's saying Americans are stupid.

I was a smart kid...I probably knew more than most adults in this country. Bush took every chance to betray democrats into supporting his own agenda and then portraying them as weak for it. If the Republicans couldn't have even a shred of decency then we can't expect Democrats to take the high road. They're even showing movies about how "9/11 was Clinton's fault" right before the elections to try to move away from their own very obvious incompetence, corruption, and extremism. The Democrats aren't running for president this year. It's all about showing how dramatically disastrous it was to have Republicans in control. Bush beat Kerry because he successfully attacked Kerry's war record (such a low blow i lost all respect for Bush) and painting Kerry bad not painting himself positively. Clinton had a Republican Congress that wasn't as extreme or corrupt as the Bush Congress. That allowed a more moderate middle ground and real debate about corruption. With Bush corruption is swept under the rug and the extreme is the only thing that goes through. Please list Clinton's major problems in a new thread if we're gonna debate this.

The CIA launched the brilliant campaign in Afghanistan. Rumsfeld kept the troops out because he had a personal vendetta against CIA director Tenet and that let Bin Laden right through. I like the abc movie that shows that it was the Clinton administrations fault with fabricated information that didn't prevent the attacks of 9/11 when it was the Bush administration that ignored the warnings and then pretty re!@#$%^&*edly let Bin Laden slip away. So yes why not distract the American people from your total incompetence with another war? Problem is the complete and utter incompetence was still there. Clinton's controversies were about his personal life. It wasn't about his presidency. Bush has dozens of major things that are seriously wrong with his presidency. People forgot about Clinton's affairs because they realize in the end Clinton was a good president and getting head from his fat secretary didn't really mean didly squat for how good or bad he did as president. With Bush it's all about how badly he did with the presidency. Also, Clinton's approval ratings were not as bad as Bush's. I personally thought the whole thing was blown up by Republicans to look for dirt. I like how they try to sweep many many much much worse things under the rug now and say that pointing these things out helps the terrorists. I didn't "jump on the bandwagon". I knew from the start from Bush's friends stealing the election in Florida that Bush was corrupt. I got behind the president after 9/11 like everyone else and like everyone else I was betrayed by one of the most corrupt administrations in history. Bush got reelected by trashing his opponent and keeping Democrats from voting. It's more an issue of Democrats failing to sell Kerry to the public than Bush doing a good job. 40% approval ratings doesn't mean anything considering the majority of people are entrenched in a certain party and almost never change sides no matter what. The problem with young people is they feel too disenchanted to see that they're vote matters so they just don't vote. If everyone voted I think Democrats would win by like a 20% margin considering the poor and young people who'd vote for Democrats mostly vote in the lowest numbers whereas the rich and the old vote for Republicans mostly and vote in the highest numbers. If I found a good more honest Republican like McCaine I might vote for them if the GOP would even let them through (they'd have to be ultra conservative to get through). I wish there was some way to just demolish the parties and let the system start from scratch so things aren't so entrenched.

I like how he tries to be peaceful with the obvious psycho in North Korea who thinks he is God and very obviously brainwashes his people to think the same. Then again no oil so it can't pay for itself the way Iraq "has" .

It'd be better we know he's dead so Bush can't use him as a bludgen on anyone who disagrees with his incompetence and corruption.

I didn't even think about Iran giving nukes to extremist factions elsewhere to detonate. Now that you mention it they can do this and take out New York City and then go "who could have done such a thing?" Here's another reason why I'm extreme on not appeasing Iran. I live in NYC along with my family and friends. When Iran gets to the point of making nukes we're all dead. Hopefully I'll be gone by then, but my family will still be there and Sever will say "it wasn't Iran that did it because they're denying and you need a magic declaration or else we must trust Iran to be a rational extremist cleric run strongly anti US state so let's do nothing" while they prepare to take out LA and Chicago.

In a country that's run by unelected clerics even a bare majority support is much more effective than a democratic country with the government having a bare majority. Thinking you can just dissolve Israel after all that's happened and that it'd a piece of cake is extreme. The US would not invade or attack Iran if Iran wasn't trying to get the one capability able to do serious damage on US soil.

American intelligence services are probably one of the best if not the best in the world. However, the people on top take the information any way they want and that's usually to fulfill a political goal. The government doesn't hate Iran. They hated Iraq and they acted in kind. With Iran, however, we don't have an air blockade and strong economic sanctions crippling their economy and keeping them from making nukes. On top of that Iran is taking steps to be able to develop nukes much more easily. It's a fact that the leaders of Iran rile up their people to call for the destruction of the west... If they can keep everything open about their nuclear program and allow independent international observers to make sure they don't make nukes then I'm all for them having nuclear power. The people of Iran are riled up into calling for our destruction every Friday after prayers. It's a fact. I'm not saying all Muslims do this as the vast majority of Muslims are in countries that are on good relations with the US. You seem to be all for appeasing Islamic extremism to the point of giving a country like Iran the ability to create nukes. It's not so much that you embrace it as you do everything in your power to see how they can be absolutely right.

I don't know about that. It did get the pope to apologize.

Christians would turn to violence if they were run by clerics and believed the Bible in absolutism like they did a few centuries ago. Also, many people don't do enough to control their radicals in the Muslim World.

Haha I've seen that. (break.com rocks)

The Kurds in Iran are oppressed like the Kurds in Syria and to a greater extent Turkey. If the Kurds get a state in Iraq they'll be looking to free their brothers from the oppression of the oppressors who claim to be oppressed themselves by America (except with Turkey). Hyprocrits need to be put in their place.

No I'm sure the ENTIRE population doesn't want to destroy America, but enough of them do (and the people who run them do and are able to propaganda more and more of them to want the same). Many foreign nations do have American bloodlust and for good reason. They're countries that we interfered with very negatively in the past. The more extreme of these don't just want to take Bush out of power. They want America to disappear or be very very weakened. When you add the absolutism of religion it's justified as us being evil heathens who deserve to die. America's outsourcing problem is as much a result of Bush's incompetence supporting the pockets of big business over the m!@#$%^&* of Americans and the future of America as it is a natural result of the rest of the world moving up from poverty since we already had a tremendous monopoly on global markets. American products aren't crap. I don't know where you base that accusation. Other countries have a much cheaper work force since they haven't had anywhere near as much time to unionize and improve their living standards as we have. It's not that their products are superior. It's that their products are cheaper because they bairly pay their workers for their services. Iranians not being Arabs is a momumentally important fact in the debate. I've made many arguments, although pointing out your utter lack of knowledge about Iran with that is an easy point you've given me. However that's not the only thing I said. There's also a fine line between being strong and weak. That line is the willingness to act on extremists who call for our destruction while at the same time claim innocence on the one thing that would give them the capability to destroy us.

Tiq: Iran is Persian not Arab...the people in Iran calling for our destruction is a fact. That's what's scary. It's not just the government that hates us they've got a popular base that hates us. Again...Iran is not even Arab. Try to get even the most basic facts right please...Japan succeeding after World War 2 is because American products are crap? Do you understand globalisation at all? Japan succeeded because they moved their !@#$%^&*es away from dictatorships and towards democracy and capitalism and we supported them. A country isn't crap because it trades with other countries. That's pure economic ignorance right there. Again, do your research before you throw insults: http://www.ghandchi.com/88-Normal.htm Aileron: The vast majority of Arabs would not bomb us, but they also don't have a problem with some of their people bombing us. Iran is not democratic. They have elections for President, but his main power is to talk and scare people. The people who run everything are unelected extremist clerics. Then again the people of Iran decided the man who represents them is an extremist that calls for the death of the west. France and Germany aren't stupid. They're just looking at their own interests and their own interests is to look soft on extremist Islam so their Islamic populations don't get mad. Not all Democrats are weak on extremism...in the US we support Israel's right to exist and worry about extremist Islam just as much as Republicans. Tiq: Please tell me you're not Iranian because you don't seem to know anything about Iran even one of the most fundamental facts that they aren't Arabs.

Bull!@#$%^&* Greased people from PETA do it with the animals ;-)

The smoking gun of Iran directly saying they want nukes to destroy the West isn't gonna happen. No one's that stupid. To say it was a lie would mean they knew for sure it was a lie. It was more like the administration's standard ignoring the experts. However in this case it only means they'd be slower at making nukes. These people hate the West and call for our destruction every Friday after prayers...how blind can you be to it. True that was a generalization. France and Germany are the main appeasement induced countries. Britain might actually be willing to act if it's blatantly obvious of the intentions of Iran. So what if they launch nukes at us? It's their right isn't it? I mean we "created Israel" right? We're run by those darned Zions eh? We deserve nuclear annihalation right? And for the record I'm not Islamophobic, I'm extremophobic. You're the one who seems to embrace extremism and call it your brother and !@#$%^&* those rich evil zions!

Iran wanting nukes has nothing to do with their lack of efficiency in creating the radioactive material for nukes. I don't think I've ever even cited or mentioned the alleged weapons grade material they've already produced in the whole thread, so your lame "you just eat what the Bush administration feeds you" fails again. I'm a re!@#$%^&*? Your the one who calls strongly for the support of people who would kill you and everyone you know because you are "infidels" and "heathens". You're never gonna find evidence of Iran directly saying they want to create nukes so they can use them on the US...it's their words calling for our destruction that proves they'd be a threat if we allowed them to continue their nuclear program. Iran is irrational. Any country that's run by extremist power hungry clerics and a president who calls the Holocaust a myth is irrational. It's just a fact. I love Europe and what they stand for, but I'm sick of their !@#$%^&*, let them do whatever they want and hope for the best approach to the world. You seem to have adopted that ideology. Europe could be just as powerful, if not more powerful than the US, and keep us in line when we're wrong and help us when we're right, but they seem to just want to let us do the dirty work and make themselves look enlightened.

Lol Sever just because they're inefficient at it all that proves is that they'd take a while to make their own nukes. Well said Aileron.

Subspace is a nuisance to itself.