Jazz

Cool idea to get more new players involved If my availability wasnt so damned erratic i wouldve liked to try this too :S

I was just posting in another thread about how i liked the old Alpha map as well, and how itd be good for chaos too with some modifications to the boundaries ...... B4 - B19 - R19 - R4 And theres this thread about another map as well ...... but the current map shown in ?go wobit isnt the same map we tried before is it ?!?! ARE there actually plans for a new map ? I would prefer the old ALPHA map !!

The Alpha map was pretty awesome this past week ! This current Chaos map is pretty boring ....... id actually rather have the old Alpha map permanently !! The map is a little big though, so is there any way to cut out some of the periphery ? ...... B4-B19-R4-R19 ..... adjusting the boundaries as needed That old map actually has a nice mix of open areas, and obstacles, and passages etc. It was actually alot of fun to play in.

I didnt play it as much as i wouldve liked, but from what i did try, I really liked that map Its nice and open, but still has some areas to navigate around. It works well for 1v1 and also if its 1vSwarm

Just popped into Chaos for a bit and i was the only one who wasnt in spec mode. With this reset we're back at 30bty start and variable start with 'status' items ...... but i cant even find greens to powerup I flew around the central castle, and there wasnt a green on my radar for almost 30seconds .... and when Hibachi unspecced, for some reason he ended up on my freq even though there were no other ppl in the zone ? Im guessing theres still more tweaking to do

I love random shrap ..... ok maybe not 'love' it, because it seems to kill me when i cant predict where to stand when i hit a mine or bomb http://forums.ssgn.net/public/style_emoticons/default/vava.gif I also like the idea of random damage from bullets too .... which makes it more challenging in a way because youre not sure how many bullets you can actually take And in a way, it seems more realistic. Its as if some hits are more critical than others ! The biggest problem was the low number of greens. They were pretty hard to find, which means you really valued them .... but the difficulty was trying to find them when the population was low. Then you might have a high bounty (or even a turret) chasing after you, and you have no SPEED, or RECHARGE, or ENERGY, or guns or anything and you cant even find greens I did find more teamwork ..... but as mentioned, with few freqs of larger numbers, you may end up with one large turret, and no choice but to chase a turret or leave. The lancaster i think is better with just one bounce. I think it actually required SOME amount of skill to use. It gets ridiculous and requires no skill when someone can just fly around lobbing lanc bombs that just bounce everywhere, and its even dumber when its used for line bombing. The shark, i havent tried it much, but do people prefer it with the cloak and extra energy ....... or do they prefer the rapid guns ? Because it definitely shouldnt have both. Its crazy enough as it is with the rapid guns !! BTW ...... NO BONUSES =

I remember a few days when JeffP came into one of the zones (cant remember which one) and hed mess with the settings a bit for fun for a few mins. The ships had multiple bursts, multiple reps, rapid fire guns and bombs etc

Im not sure when it was first being tried out, but i saw it a few nights ago. At that time, when those of us playing noticed the density of greens, we asked about it, and Hallu played around a little with the area in which the greens appeared. Originally it was so dense that there were greens and flags within such a condensed area that it was actually hard to see mines because of all the clutter He spaced it out some more with feedback so it wasnt TOO cluttered at least.

I totally agree ..... i vote for keeping these settings too ! And Sam's idea about greens seems like a good one.

Hahahahah, classic LOL oddly enough ... i didnt see him around last night late on when i got to the zone, and there were quite a few 3-4 ppl freqs playing. And that main area WAS pretty damn chaotic And i have to admit ... after mostly seeing Gads lame turret that runs away from a 4on1, when Fong didnt run, it was kind of scary seeing all those blue bombs heading at me. I had to run away more

Im not sure what part you think is incorrect ? The multiple-computers was already mentioned by two admins ..... and what was done ? Hes till DOING it. But anyway ..... if you want, msg me. But i think we're going to have to agree to disagree Beyond what ive already mentioned in how things played out, and the lack of info and the RESULTING appearance, there are other reasons that make that appearence seem likely that i may tell you in pvt if you want to discuss

Close bomb EMPs freezing your own energy. Oh, and you could kill yourself in SubSpace via closebombs. (still works in the tutorial v 1.34 IIRC) Did you make up your mind on where you stand on bonuses yet? "Hunters" being able to !bonus speed was a horrible thing for you a few threads ago. Now not having bonuses hurts turrets? What? Gad wants whatever favors him. He wants to be lame but heaven forbid anyone else can be. This is why no bonuses is a good thing, hunters don't have them and niether do turrets, I don't see any inequality here. Bonuses are a terrible idea. One of the main objectives of the zone is to use your weapons wisely, if you don't you will most likely die. Being able to acquire weapons (!bonus booster) at will is not even close to what the game is supposed to be like. If you want things like they were in the old days then you shouldn't want bonuses. Amen Ethy I prefer no bunuses at all. And the proposed costs for the following reset (?) are still cheap, so they'll still be overused. And the self-emp .... i was just noticing that last night I was messing around and shooting emps point-blank, and all it did was reduced my energy, but it didnt freeze ..... just immediately started recharging. I never noticed that before When im fighting other ships, i sometimes try and get close so they cant bomb me for fear of prox damage. And weasels are pretty dangerous when used properly as it is, and i figured if i got in close, their prox would negate some of their advantage by making the pilot worry about freezing himself after shooting me

Noone said it WASNT legal ..... so go ahead ..... and youve already mentioned your 'options', so im not sure why youre saying it again ? Just to reiterate that youre 'crying ? So in case you missed where i referenced your options, ive reposted it. But i wonder if [Esc Q] or ship changing to avoid deaths ..... by which you artificially affect stats (which seems pretty important to you) ..... would fall under 'cheating' ? But then again, youve already used multiple-computers, for various other reasons to 'cheat' and nothing was done ...... so chances are nothing will be done anyway. Which would explain why you continue to do it But anyway ……. Option A …. use the same bonus points to assist in running like hell if anyone so much as turns your way (even when it’s a 4-man turret on 1 ). Option B ….. youre already pretty lame as it is, why change now ? And btw, if you guys DO want to ship change (or even Esc Q), that means you’ve either been chased out of the zone like a coward (which isnt a big deal to you because thats the norm) and/or youre no longer on your turret … you need to green … and the rest of the zone will probably swarm and kill you ANYWAY I know you won’t really mind if we all ignore all other targets and just keep killing you repeatedly ….. Option C ….. it seems like you’ve been allowed to cheat REPEATEDLY and gotten away with it so far. Apparently its ok. But who knows, maybe at some point you’ll be banned And Ethy ..... he ALREADY did get his way. So he found that it works ..... therefore, why change As long as he cries, he doesnt need to actually do anything else

WHAT THE HELL !! MY EMOTES !!! http://forums.ssgn.net/public/style_emoticons/default/cray.gif So how long was this ‘experiment’ going on for ? And as I already asked ….. what IS the data that was evaluated and what were the findings ? And NFS why are you talking about the RESET 'wasnt brought forward or delayed to accomodate anything' ?!?! That was never a question. Do you actually KNOW if the experiment had 'run its course' ? The appearance is that the 'experiment' was ended at the EARLIEST convenient opportunity (i.e. nearest reset .... "coincidentally" within days of Gads whining). And with no information, claiming the 'experiment had run its course' as the convenient justification for this ending still seems alot like caving in ..... If youre claiming to run it as an experiment, then publish your findings LIKE you would with an experiment No information was given about the changes BEFORE it occurred (so that results weren’t contaminated?), at least expand on the info AFTER the experiment by providing some answers so we can see what can be learned from the experiment. You can learn a lot from FAILED experiments as well as SUCCESSFUL ones ….. NFS ….. lol im pretty sure im not the only person who thinks his playing ‘stlye’ is lame … but ok You can assume that its just MY opinion ALONE if youd like. As always the silent majority will remain … silent So we wont really know which way they go do we ? And as you’ve already agreed, ive made some effort to contribute to these forums. Hopefully it helps the zone. Maybe it affects play-styles that I don’t personally like. Does that mean they are mutually exclusive ?!?!? I can make the claim that its ‘CAVING IN’ because the ONLY info I HAVE to go on so far is that “GAD CRIES = SETTINGS CHANGED BACK ASAP” And yes …. I CAN claim that a change was made to specifically NOT hurt Gad. Why ? Because as mentioned, ‘Gad and his gunners complain that it hurts them, and settings were changed’. But feel free to tell me im wrong ….. I don’t mind. Just tell me why Same way I will ALSO agree or disagree with points, but i at least will state my reasons ….. because then there can be some clarification. Which is where the info I requested earlier comes in. Ummmmm ….. I don’t remember EVER saying it should be illegal and outlawed. So please show me where ive said this. Ive said I think it’s a lame tactic. If youre going to claim IM trying 'disinformation' (despite providing references and reasoning with my posts) then you should at least show me where i said that ..... ? Errr NFS …. The only other person that complained about the 1min mines was you ? …. Was this before or after you mine-repped ? LOL. If you go back and read my post, it wasn’t about hurting GAD, it was about finding a ‘scaling adjustment’ (as you called it), the 1min mines may not have started as this but WERE a scaling adjustment ….. to reflect the zone as it is now. SMALL, with very FEW players. Ive explained how in other posts. As stated before, ‘inconclusive’? At helping new people ? You mean those TWO people who turreted hallu while Gad was there (one time I saw them turreting), but played on their own while no one was mine repping (again I saw them once). Was it also inconclusive as a ‘scaling adjustment’ too ? Ive posted PROs and CONs with regard to that. Which part of that was inclonclusive ? I don’t remember seeing any responses to that. I’ll go recheck later. And Gad&Cos whining isn’t being dismissed, I asked him to provide info too. Which he conveniently hasn’t. However it seems my OWN questions ARE being dismissed So apparently its not information thats sought, but non-substantiated whining. You asked ME if im trying to help the zone, or hurt a playing style …..go back and read my posts, ive ALREADY provided answers in the form of pros and cons as to why it would help the zone and what type of styles it would probably affect and HOW. So ask Gad the same question….. “At this point the question must asked: would you like to see things happen that help the zone, or things happen that hurt play-style you personally don't like?” (hunters and general melee fighters). Is that what they actually SAID, or what youre assuming ? Did you ask ? How many chaos players read the forums regularly and followed the discussion to consider the positions ? Samy seems to think it DID help. Chances are there are others who believe the same. But he says he would still prefer no changes being made. Which is totally fine. He noticed a difference, but just doesnt think any changes should be made to certain settings from the original days. Ideally that would be great ..... if it was still the old days with LOTS of players.

Ya and the zone population once again will probably be cut down by 1/3 as well as Hallu continues to mess with the settings to satisfy cry baby hunters who find it hard to kill a turret. I'm guessing that all of Hallu's changes wont help the population. I'm guessing that turrets will just Ship change in open space since when the hunters come after them because they are mad that they are not allowed to Spend hard earned bonus points when they need them. Hmmmm I wonder which Option will make the hunters more Mad? Option A: turret runs away with bonus points, 1 hour later hunter gets to kill turret with 4,000 bounty Option B: every 1/2 hour the turret when out of toys or under pressure ship changes in open space so Hunters Never get a big bounty kill. Building macro to Esq Q and Ship change right now baby...... LOL @ “hard earned bonus points” I chuckled a bit when I read that Allll that effort of mine-repping, and fleeing to hide in Safe Zones ... So here we go again ….. more crying ….. “cry baby hunters” ….. ironic …… crying about ‘cry baby hunters’ ? But wait, previous results (with changes to mines) have shown that this works, therefore basic psychology suggests that the behavior will continue or even increase to attain maximum returns Oddly enough, that same experiment showed that any kind of wild claims with nothing to substantiate them are much more effective at getting results. But anyway ……. Option A …. use the same bonus points to assist in running like hell if anyone so much as turns your way (even when it’s a 4-man turret on 1 ). Option B ….. youre already pretty lame as it is, why change now ? And btw, if you guys DO want to ship change (or even Esc Q), that means you’ve either been chased out of the zone like a coward (which isnt a big deal to you because thats the norm) and/or youre no longer on your turret … you need to green … and the rest of the zone will probably swarm and kill you ANYWAY I know you won’t really mind if we all ignore all other targets and just keep killing you repeatedly ….. Option C ….. it seems like you’ve been allowed to cheat REPEATEDLY and gotten away with it so far. Apparently its ok. But who knows, maybe at some point you’ll be banned Again ? 1/3 ? ….. that’s right … youre GUESSING. That’s the only fact you’ve ever stated Hell , I could say that the zone went down by 1/3 DUE to bonuses even being introduced in the first place …. At least the numbers would demonstrate MY argument more so than yours I know you’ve had more success with this type of approach where wild claims are enough. But amaze everyone …… explain WHY ? and HOW ? The zone numbers aren’t exactly increasing as things are. Numbers have gone down over the years (for a variety of reasons). And are you saying that YOURE going to leave Gad ? That might be an interesting experiment in itself

lol i agree about the housekeeping As for the Booster and Speed bonuses ...... im not sure why you said 'its on a par with 3 bursts and 3 thors for strength' ? Even with the new costs, youre getting "5 thors and 5 bursts" or "5 rockets and 5 portals" for the same price as "1 brick and 1 repel" Im not disagreeing about how useful a repel is ..... i spend more time greening for THAT than anything else ..... but i think the others are still being undervalued And what about greens ? Are there more greens for thors, bursts, rockets, portals than there are for repels or walls ? Just curious, because I dont know what the percentages are.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Hallu said the 1m was becoming 2m again because it didn't seem to pan out as much of an improvement. Pros and cons of the change were discussed ad nauseum, from sensible to screaming, but ... yeah ... I guess he just "caved in". AMAZINGLY, the 'experiment' was deemed inconclusive, and it was decided to change it back .... juuusst coincidentally, right after Gad and his turret gunners whined. Nope ..... no CAVING IN there ..... ALLLL coincidence im sure Actually i added quite abit to the discussion as you well know NFS , in fact i provided alot of the PROS and CONS and i asked if others had any to add to the DISCUSSION ..... none of which was provided by Gad (as i mentioned IN my posts and as i asked FOR again in those same posts...). Now what i just asked was WHO complained (provided their 'vote' and reasoning) and asked for it to be changed back ? And WHAT was the info/reasoning ? Ive asked in TWO threads now ..... If this was an experiment ... then thats part of the RESULTS ....... So, Id like to know. Otherwise it DOES look like caving in. And i also asked WHO IT HELPED .... was it 'new people'? .... of whom hallu said there were TWO. Not exactly much data to make any worthwhile conclusion, but whatever. It certainly didnt seem like it HURT new people. But wait, did it have the unforseen benefit of making it more challenging to be a mine repper, and harder to minestack then hide ? ....... No we wouldnt want THAT *sarcasm*, hurting those poor guys who try SO hard to be lame in the now depleted Chaos zone. Instead lets just ignore the benefits it may have for the avg players (which would include new ppl and regulars) since theyre not whining ....... Sometimes a trial for one thing has other unexpected results (ex: Viagara). In this instance it was making things more difficult for the mine reppers ......... hmmmmm you know .. the guys that were whining to hallu and basically had NOTHING to back any of their claims besides " YOURE ALL BEING MEEEAN ...AND MAKING IT HARDER FOR ME TO BE A LAMER!! http://forums.ssgn.net/public/style_emoticons/default/cray.gif " ........... but look .... IT WORKS !! Good plan So i guess this experiment did result in a conclusion ..... just not what we expected And the results are evident in the forums PS: i love emoticons

Says right at the top of the post you quoted, Jazz ; Speed & Booster bonuses have been tripled in cost, essentially, as their gain has been cut to a third of previous. ahh ok gotcha AWESOME !! ... no bonuses Speed and Booster bonuses have been tripled ? Because you get less of them right? (i dont use bonuses very much AT ALL ) Ok ... but DEFENCE is 10 bonus, and you only get 1 brick and 1 repel. If 10 bonus reflects THEIR value, then my point is that the other two (Speed and Booster) bonuses are STILL cheap at 2 bonus pts .....

That's why i suggested building 20-30 dumb bots for the newbies to have something to shoot at. If i let the newbie kill me Hallu will accuse me of gifting and BAN me and remove the 2,000 bounty kill from the newbies record. Then the newbie would be REALLY confused. Another quiz for you all while waiting for Priit to finish fixing up the biller. What is factually inaccurate in the above statement? Extra credit bonus question: what part of this statement has a greater than 99% chance of being factually inaccurate and why? Double bonus points for correcting all grammatical and spelling errors in the above sentence . --hallu The whole thing sounds like a bunch of bullshit. But that seems typical. Hes complained about EVERYTHING possible, not for the benefit of the zone, but because he wants any advantage that helps his 'style'. He doesnt provide any info to backup any of his claims at all. But that doesnt seem to matter. So far you already CAVED IN Hallu JUST because Gad and the people that normally turret him complained about the mines lasting 1minute instead of 2mins. . So im guessing that facts or anything to back up claims is irrelevant anyway. Who else had a problem with it ? ......... anyone besides the mine-reppers ? You said the only non-Gadturret gunner who said anything was Blitz ... ok fine .... but as we mentioned in spec, hes also been on there. So Gad recruits his gunners to complain because they now have to waste energy replacing minestacks more frequently, and they cant leave stacks in the main playing area while they run to hide in less busy parts of the zone. if there were others complaining, id be curious to know who they are ..... ? Maybe then it wont seem like you caved in just because Gad and his gunners were whining and there was actually more wider support As an EXPERIMENT to see if it helped new ppl ? ...... there were TWO ? And im sure theyd get mine repped by Gad just to improve stats. So who did you help ?

Quiz for those of you out there waiting for the biller to come back up -- how is the above post factually incorrect? --hallu Bonuses are GONE for this reset ? I know a bunch of people think that would be ok (including me), but i thought you were modifying the system ...... the values would be changed, and adding !fullship, and only available in SAFE, and public macro When is this post below supposed to take effect then ? AND I STILL HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE VALUE OF !SPEED aND !BOOSTER ........ i asked why theyre so low still ... should be higher .... since !DEFENCE is also high, and these others are pretty powerful too, but much cheaper......

Answer: 29 days. When I put in the change, I thought they would be noticed in no more than two days time, and probably within hours (that was the guess of others I asked also). The mine time change was noticed within two days (not the first day). I was very surprised when the team mine limit change was not noticed -- my prediction was very short -- yet it was quite long before anyone noticed. About changes: when doing user testing, one needs to collect objective data. When the user is informed of changes, the data is no longer objective, but biased. If a change is made, but the observed behavior does not change, then that shows the change has little/no effect. No one noticing this change, or changing their behavior for 29 days shows that the change was a minor one. That's interesting information. Now that the experiment is complete and we have the data, number team mines will be changed back to 12 and mine times will be back to 2 minutes at the next reset. Based on observation, I think these minor changes would probably do little to help with the 'new player leaving' issue (see below). 12 mines per team was the standard SVS setting with 7 man freqs. That works out to less than 2 mines per person -- so that was the game design decision back then based on that much larger population. I remember leaving freqs where the other people would use all the mines (doing mine stacks and such) - I wanted to have at least one available for mining chasers. I would favor having the number of mines change with the freqsize, but will not implement that at this time. It also appears that some people erroneously believe that many settings changes have been made during the past year. This is simply not the case. Here are the facts -- changes made in the last year: 1) shark -- this was a fairly major change 2) bty increase for kill -- raised from 6 to 12, and now to 20. 3) bouncing bomb damage percentage -- I found that somewhere in the last several years, someone nerfed the bouncing bomb damage to 80% of normal (which is interesting in light of lanc usage being in the tank). I've set it back to SVS normal of 100%. That might be true for intermediate players, but it is not true for *actual* new players, who have no idea what a mine is. We lose the vast majority of people in the first 5-10 minutes of play (that's what 'new player' means) -- getting mine repped and dying instantly is a significant way that we lose these new players. No one likes dying suddenly and without understanding why. It's not fun, seems unfair, and so they leave. Please be assured that mine repping is part of Chaos and will not be removed. But it is most decidedly not newb friendly. It is the only "one shot kill" we have in Chaos, and is the most risk-free way to get kills (which is why many pilots do not respect that style of play) -- these reasons are why mine stacks and mine repping are not a part of more 'skill based' SVS play such as League. --hallu What was the general view from most ppl about mines being 2mins versus 1min ? Seemed to me like the only ppl complaining about 1min mines WAS the mine reppers (who now had replace those mines more frequently and risked death), and the ppl who like leaving mine stacks in main areas and leaving them there while they run off to less active areas.

I actually think some of those are good ideas. 1. The Bot idea I suggested somewhere (either in forum or in pub spec) that a single bot in the main zone when NOONE or ONE person was playing would be good. Too often when ive come into Chaos, everyones in spec and probably away, so the person that came in to have a look has no option to play for a bit to kill some time, so then just leaves. Ppl dont seem to unspec unless theres 1-2 minimum out there in the 'field' ..... so provide a bot for that time, and then have it go to spec once there are at least 2 ppl playing. Kills ON the bot shouldnt count for stats though ..... but perhaps it would be fun to have kills BY the bot count However, a tutorial arena populated by bots for new ppl to practice on sounds great. You can have bots of varying difficulty (based on their bty level and which upgrades they have) for new people to get some real practice on. The bots can have FIXED bty while the new ppl are able to powerup. I know if its accessible by vets, it may affect the experience. So perhaps one way to be able to do this (if its possible) is for everytime a new person enters Chaos (bot can check their ?USAGE) they automatically get sent to a private unlisted arena which is created for them (ex: ?go [username]). Once the person has killed off all the bots in the arena, or if the bots are able to respawn then maybe achieves a certain RATIO (so we know theyre actually able to kill the bots at least .... the downside being they may only be killing the easier bots repeatedly), then they can have the option to go to the public arena right away, or on their next entry. Infact, this could even work as an OFFLINE TUTORIAL ZONE for everyone ..... including ppl who have played with crazy non-VIE settings and need a refresher If it wasnt for the fact that ppl come into the Chaos zone JUST to go on to League, WZ, 4v4 Practice, etc. i think it might be kind of interesting to make EVERYONE have to go through something like an alpha ARENA at the beginning of each reset Perhaps with other players being invulnerable, so only bots can be killed. Once a certain ratio, or stat is achieved they can then go on to the main zones 2. Client, website, game help YouTube sounds like a good idea if anyone actually wants to do it Perhaps the tutorial will also help ppl to figure out the game too. 3. Advertising This really is essential. On the forum, or the SS website, have available banners (different styles and sizes) and other links that ppl can easily copy and paste on other websites. Make it EASIER to advertise. Im sure quite a few ppl know how to make banner links etc .... but not EVERYONE. Make it easier for those people. Perhaps also even have a button on the launch screen somewhere that will allow ppl to "INVITE FRIENDS" which could open an email with the banner link already there for them to send on to friends.

The FULLSHIP bonus .... does it also give you the specials ? Or is it just the full upgrades to all the guns, energy, bombs, AW, x, cloak, stealth (which is what id prefer) ? Personally, i think the TUNEUP bonus is the one the majority of ppl will use the most If it included +1 energy as well, it would be perfect But why are the BOOSTER and SPEED bonuses so cheap ??? They only cost 2 bonus to acquire ? And yet DEFENCE is 10 bonus points to acquire ? If DEFENCE is valued so high (and rightly so) because of its ability to block access or repel, then shouldnt the two most POWERFUL weapons and the two options that give you EXTRA speed or warp ALSO cost more ?? If repels and bricks are valued so highly, then shouldnt these other two bonuses be worth AT LEAST 5 bonus points or more ?!?! If im being chased, a burst and/or warp would be cheaper and as effective to help than repel or a wall ..... and if im rushing in, then a booster and thors/bursts will be a nice cheap option too for an attack. There was ALOT of people suggesting that NO bonuses would be the better option. But the compromise was to increase the costs and to make them only available in a safe zones ? In that case, I just think all of those SPECIALS should cost ALOT more. You were always supposed to GREEN for special weapons, and this just makes it even easier/lazier And what about accumulating bonus points ? Is it going to be reset with each RESET or will we be able to keep amassing them indefinitely ? I would prefer a RESET Incidentally, do you think NEW players will be buying alot of bonuses ? ...... nope. Its mostly going to be the regulars that get the advantage. The regular players already have a big enough advantage as it is without adding more to help skew things.

Thats what these forums are for Gad To give feedback, suggestions, etc ..... So far, the suggestion has been 'improved communication' about zone modifications.

lol Psyops I think everyones entitled to give an opinion and suggestions and see what others have to say about it. I think wed all like to see how/if the game can be improved. So its fair to dispute and/or discuss points being made. i prefer weasels with emp bombs that do 1/2 damage. i prefer weasels only have level 1 bombs i prefer weasels didnt ever get rockets. Point is that mines have always lasted for 2 minutes. If you want to mess with the mines why not mess with the Weasels settings and hurt the hunters favorite ship? Cutting the time in 1/2 helps hunters and hurts other play styles. o ya i forgot this is a hunter only zone. all other play styles should be criticized to death, and the settings should be modified to kill them. Actually Gadianton, i commented earlier somewhere that i think the weasels are a bit strong with their ability to fire emps and immediate L3 guns. Also the shark with its rapid L3 rate of fire. Even the terriers dual L3 guns are a pain in the ass But thats related to another thread, so your comment should be placed there. So to paraphrase from that whole post, the only part related to this topic is that 'its always been 2 mins, so should always stay the same' ? Then theres a random unsupported claim that you yourself essentially disagree with (from the previous post of yours i quoted shown below). And lastly some drama about how youre a victim (?) because ppl criticize your "style" ? Cutting mine time doesnt HELP hunters or hurt runners .... runners get them back quicker as NFS pointed out, and YOU agreed with. So if anything, it HELPS runners. http://forums.ssgn.net/public/style_emoticons/default/search.gif You didnt address any of the points i posted, instead you just made a weak unsupported argument to something you actually already agreed helped runners and hurt chasers anyway. And what are these other playing 'styles' that get hurt ? How/why ? Youre being too vague. I mentioned some styles in my own post that you couldve referenced. It DOES hurt mine reppers (especially the cloaked mine repper). It DOES hurt ppl who place minestacks in active areas then leave to wait before it needs replenishing. However, its not exactly something that would PREVENT those tactics if someone wanted to do them, but would make it a LITTLE more difficult. It DOESNT hurt fighters (difference between that and 'hunters'), it DOESNT even hurt/prevent players laying a minestack in the main areas (they can still do it, replenish it if needed, or discard). And as has already been said, it DOESNT hurt runners or hunters (though the latter has to be more cautious). So i'll re-post the previous comment too ...... ive given specifics of who it would help and hurt and how/why. So now id like to hear what are these other 'styles' that you think are being hurt and also how/why ? Im just asking for more information (from ANYONE), because you may have points noones thought of that are important to consider and could open some discussion. But if youre going to be really VAGUE without anything to support your claims, then im going to infer that you CANT actually think of any specifics and DONT have a real argument. Great point nude. Thats a good point NFS. You would have to think about more mines being dropped in your face. How long do mines last out there in the main regions of activity ? Unless its an individual mine that was also dropped while on the run, most are placed in areas of high traffic to catch the unwary. Longer times would mean they stay there much longer. Which means the miner doesnt have to come back to replenish them as often. In addition, mines in the active areas tend to get run over or repelled away more frequently, so the person placing mines gets replenished anyway. Consider also that mine reppers (especially the cloaked variety) can now sit and wait for much longer periods of time for a target to repel, without having to use energy to replace their mine stack. So considering those two views, i would say on balance, i prefer the shorter times. Yes its a pain in the ass to consider mines being dropped in your face by someone youre chasing, but you can avoid those. And most of the time if its too close, youd repel them anyway (thus replenishing the runners supply).