Nude For Satan

As you'll remember Jazz I've messaged you a few times, not to ask you to stop giving coords, but to ask you to stop giving them too frequently. You'd always complied with responding My position is definitely that giving coords is fine. Just don't make the chat screen ugly with over-posting them.

I'm just putting my own opinion out here, nothing else, but I actually don't mind chasing a three-person turret even when there's only me or one or two other people around in the zone at the time. I do understand, though, you're annoyance with that situation. Not everybody is as happy to go on a 0:100 turret-chasing spree on their own as I am ... but ohhh ... 1:100 is friggin SWEET!

Didn't notice any myself, but I don't talk much in-game so wouldn't know.

I fully support this suggestion.

I can always get Bonus points, it only takes me 500 pts each. I can achieve that in a streak of 40 straight losses and 1 500 pt kill.

How do you know I was talking about you? Well ... I was but I wasn't gonna name the culprit ... oh well! Tell me something I don't know

Oh man, set a ship up with four times average rate of fire, but only with reds. That'd be awesive!

I agree. Hunters really only use bonuses to stick with bonus-using runners. They generally cancel each other out.

I did indeed forget that option. Actually I thought about it some time after I posted, and expected you'd remind me. I'm generally ok with bonuses if they're handled right, but no bonuses at all is definitely a valid preference.

Bonuses. A specific function introduced into Chaos Zone. I believe the original bot line about it advised that to learn about the Bonus system, was to learn how to own. There are clear problems with the Bonus system. Lame play loves bonuses They are too easy to use, and can too easily turn the tables mid-fight. The player who is killing the most is racking them up, further expanding the gap between newbie and vet. While a winning player should indeed garner success, the gap is a bit too broad. There are some current suggestions for changes to the Bonus system. I wanted to mention them here to see what thoughts were from the proles (says me with my 1:8 w/l ratio!). I invite your input. Are these great ideas, or crap ideas, but you have to say WHY. If possible, take both sides, the more "although, of course" statements, the more valuable your contributions can be. I also invite you to add your own ideas. "How about if ..." will help make sense of it all. Again, try to take both sides. "I suppose however that ..." again would be of great value. So, here it is. I hope I've got this right: Price Hike Its been suggested to make the stuff we buy with bonuses, more expensive. I don't know the details, but to make stuff up, imagine that a Booster cost 6 or 10 bonus, instead of, what is it currently? 3? I've personally only ever bought three things with Bonus points; Booster (3), Defense (thought it was 9, someone said 10), and Rabbit (10, I think). The rep seems pretty expensive as it is. The Rabbit could probably be higher. The Booster is dirt cheap and really should be much more expensive. You get three bursts and three thors ffs, 1 of each should probably be worth 3 Bonus points alone. So the intention is to increase the cost of use. My vote: I like this one. You should have to carefully consider your bonus stocks any time you want to pick up some goodies. Use In Safe The concept is to restrict use of Bonuses to be available only if you are in a safe zone. Too often a player turns tables on a duel mid-fight by grabbing a Booster, or a Speed to rocket them away from a concerted effort to trap a high bounty. if these could only be used while in safe, it can kind of make the fight a bit more 'honest'. This might annoy a lot of people. Both the high bounty and the people professional chasing it can be reliant on their bonuses. Speed is vital to the suicide weasel, err, hunter. I fear this one mightn't be too popular. My vote: I *generally* agree with this one. I agree it *does* attend to some lame use of Bonus Points, I'm just afraid it might create a spate of Safe Hugging. So those are the two items on the table. I have two more ideas, but I'm not sure if they are even implementable. Maybe the game coding won't allow them: 1. Can't use bonuses until you're greened to 100. My intention here is to prevent suicidal hunters performing sneak attacks, especially those coming straight out of spec where they've determined your location a moment beforehand. I really can't see any downside to this as an idea, but as I say, it mightn't be possible to implement. 2. Can't use bonuses if below full energy. I may not have thought this one through completely, but its just an idea. Again, not sure if possible. Don't worry, you can use the things you've bonused, but you can't bonus new ones, until you're at full energy. If you are going to make a mistake and fly into a corner where someone's shooting at you, then you shouldn't have the opportunity to bonus bursts AND use them. Think ahead, bonus earlier. If you're gonna get hit with stuff and rocket away, you shouldn't have the right to save your Bonus points to the last moment. Commit to buying Speed before you enter into the fight. Being able to Bonus at last moment and use those specials within a millisecond, well its like having a caddy. So I'd like to suggest those as well. Open to all discussion, let everybody know what your thoughts are! Can someone in play today (my time zone sucks) bring attention to this thread 'cause its likely to interest a few people.

Agree. But the question is: what? - This is, as you allude to later, "a part of the game". What's a tougher issue for us these days is that, with lower population, these tactics are safer to perpetrate, and potentially more devastating to new player retention. Other elements retain status quo, eg there are less targets for mine repping, and less melee/confusion in which to take advantage of someone's compromised attention, but on the other hand someone flying half the map to get back to a battle that just been killed out of, can still be totally unsuspecting. - Vulching is a tough call, in an arena that is based on attack everything, its almost a misnomer. Specifically targetting weakened ships and scarpering from anyone at 1699 is of course lame. - Lobbing, radar bombing, linebombing are generally lame. IMO I consider it lame if its all someone does. If on the other hand they've been fighting honourable for some time, get separated from the duel, then decide to head back to the centre to find targets, then there's no reason why they shouldn't send in a few bombs as a vanguard. - Purchasing Bonuses (especially boosters, IMO), are of course an angering issue. you can successfully duel every special off an opponent only to have them triple burst you to end your five minutes hard work in a spray of ouch. Bonusing DOES change the playing field, turn the tables. it just DOES. Overall, these things are totally find for a *chaotic* melee environment. The issues aren't with the use of these tactics as they stand. Nothing is wrong with them. If you were on the Somme I doubt you'd concern yourself too much with "nah that'd be pretty lame". The issues are with using them in an arena that was built for higher populations, where the advantage shifts more towards these lamers. In a high population environment, a chain of blue bombs suddenly hitting a three-frequency duel and exploding everything was as hilarious as it was angering. These days its far less amusing because there's *nothing* out there on the fringes to hold the lobber accountable. They can do it at will with their only fear being of their eyes bleeding from the qq. So I agree with you, but reserve my opinion to note that its all about the changing environment. Of course, you're not just presenting an account, you're asking, what can be done? Me too. Well, any major change should be considered separately as there could be a lot of pros and cons that people might want to put forward. One thread each makes more sense to me. There's one adjustment already on the table that i'd just been shouting at people about this morning, so I'll start a new thread for that shortly. Yes the general advantage turrets have is greater now that the population is lower. It can be pretty silly to turret when there's only two other players in the arena. The issue you mention, of turrets sticking around as people leave and remaining as a 4-person stack against lowering pop with freq size=2 can be a pretty lame personal choice of the turretters. BUT, what is your suggestion? This has been kicked around many times (I'm just reporting what I've heard, I haven't been in Chaos a long time so I'm not the best source of info) and the different ideas to attend this problem come with issues of their own. - If you were to forcible split a 4 person freq when the freq size goes down to max, 1. Which one of those players gets changed? How would you elect which player? 2. How can we differentiate between a turret and a general freq? Some poor bastard has worked hard for 2000bty alone, gets joined by others, then freq size goes down and he gets changed off his freq, potentially having his bty reset or spawning on a stack of mines? 3. When do you do this? It would be bot driven, so they could be *about to die* when the bot suddenly respawns them safely on another freq. 4. How do you manage freqent freq size changes? The freq size might JUST go up, you join a freq, the freq size goes down again 2 minutes later (or less!) and you're thrown out? - Maybe if a player got *killed*, and their freq size was out of synch, that player might lose their spot on the freq? I remember asking this once and there was a reason why it wasn't as simple as it sounded. - If a player entered safe (or whole turret did, of course), then they might have their freqs changed. Back to the earlier one, who gets changed? Where do they spawn? etc etc Also, what if they were generally afk to go for a leak, then they come back and looks like they've been brickwarped out of safe. The concepts are there, but this would need a lot more work. Can you see how its just not that simple? Flag Game thread Whether changes are made, or are not made, there will be parties that are fer and parties that are agin it. I hear your frustration, but we need to work out not just that "something needs to be done", but also what that something is. Watch for new threads as I'll try to open up discussion/debate/shitfight about a few of the points you've raised. btw NuB is clearly trolling, I presume you picked that?

If you intend to encourage OR force newbs into a learning arena (or perhaps have a map split into two sections), it would need to be surrounded in terminology that negated stigma. Few newbs would feel overly heartened by parading around in something that ended up being referred to as the "retard arena" or so forth. You know it would happen, and they don't make thick skins too much anymore. Also, be careful of people trolling public chat with lies, damn lies and statistics, too. A day ago a respected veteran was announcing how depleted his newly spawned ship was, over and over ("1400 and 0 reps wtf", etc), so I went for a quick spec, and saw 1699 & 3 reps ... cheeky bugger

Its a fair point. Are you suggesting that when we spawn, bullet level, bomb level, maximum energy level, bouncing bullets and multifire are all at full/available by default? Or perhaps those plus antiwarp, x-radar, and (if spider) cloak? Based on the argument of low population, I see what you're getting at, though I would still be surprised if folks are actually sitting in spec because of it. Sitting in spec 'cause there isn't anyone of value in play to fight, maybe, but not because greening takes more legwork. I could be wrong though *shrug*, I usually am. I'd personally like to see 1 rep awarded upon spawning by default, but that's just me.

What are the settings still left that aren't necessarily 100% upon spawning? From memory its bullet level, bomb level, maximum energy level, antiwarp, x-radar, bouncing bullets, multifire, and (if spider) cloak. The ?status settings (rotation, recharge, speed, umm can't remember, think there's more, oh shrapnel) are already beefed up to be automatically 100% upon spawn. In my opinion, greening is fairly quick. In a low population there's little threat to safety while greening. If pop is higher then there's more chance of having a co-greener. Also, though I could be wrong, there also seem to be more greens. The range is definitely wider when pop is higher. You don't have to green everything attribute to full, either. Its challenging but entertaining to engage with only red bombs. Red (and to some extent yellow) bullets are not only a fun challenge, but are often viewed so endearingly that people express annoyance publicly when they lose them to blues. Maximum Energy Level is probably the only one of all those non-100% attributes with which I'd think of agreeing with you. 1500 or 1600 max is doable, but its the 1100s through 1300s are pretty frustrating! Its never crossed my mind that a player in spec is there because they are afraid to green. I guess that's the "now" generation.

Flag hides bounty, over-rules ?target. When you are red, you attract attention from flag-game-harlots. Even if you just entered arena and spawned on top of a fag with 50 bty. Immediately you're beset upon by all those guys who take the "L" out of Flag. Also, the thing I harp on about all the time, I know, again re the flag over-riding ?target. Flags hide high bounty. Not so much in single flag game, but definitely in the 8-flag game. I know you've said its unchangeable (probably hardcoded I guess) but its really annoying. Annoys me more than anything else in the game. I don't like the flag games.

I never realised how averse I was to the flags until yesterday. I was rocketting along to get back to an opponent after another death when the flag suddenly appeared in front of me. In my panic to avoid it, I actually tried to rep it out of my path.

Its better than the 8-flag silliness imo. I prefer no flag at all, but if its gonna be a rabbit flag, this version seems a bit improved over the previous one. Samgunn made an interesting comment the other day. I believe he considered that his Jav lost a little pace when he had the flag. Any truth to the rumour?

I saw your name in Chaos Zone earlier. Welcome to Subspace and all the best for your pewpew experience! Additional hints may include, but are not limited to: - The health of your ship is affected not only by getting hit by stuff, but also by firing your own weapons. If you were blowing up too much in Chaos, its possible you had fired too often, dropped your own energy, and become a "one-shot-kill" for opponents. Remember to try to be conservative with your own weapons use. - You're new. You will not yet be adept at dodging. You WILL die a lot in the early stages. When I started playing I would die over and over for the first twelve years. - If cloakers are killing you, use the X-Radar option (in most zones) to spot these sneaky bludgers. X-Radar is normally mapped to your End key. X-Radar DOES, though, require energy (you'll work it out), so don't run it all the time. As you get to learnt the ropes you'll get used to toggling it on and off to finds that happy medium. - If you notice anyone in a zone is sounding friendly, jovial and not too abusive (there's one or two), it might be worth hitting them up for some handy hints during play. You'll learn more from flying with a helpful regular than you will from reading some how-to literature or relying on messageboard Q&A (though this forum can be a good resource, definitely). Hope this is of a little assistance. If I see you in Chaos Zone again I'll be sure to immediately lame you for free points. Which is a lie, 'cause you're probably already better than me.

Can we have one reset per year (or six months) where every one of the 14 days is devoted to a different map from a repository of submitted maps that fail to make a "full reset" cut? I reckon that'd be awesive.

There are a lot of really fun spots around this map, a lot of them over to the left. Yesterday at one point Omeaga, Sprinkles, Kyo, RTSS, myself and one other player were brawling all over a wide expanse of rocky territory there for 10 minutes. It was a lot of fun. I'm a fan. RenderMap did a good job.

Yep this is a theme amongst some of the feedback. The upgrades can be put-offish to new players and of course give a player an advantage against an otherwise evenly matched foe (well duh!). One arguments in the other direction though, include 1) they get more attention, essentially being "cross-swarmed" therefore negating the advantage a bit because they are often outnumbered. The multiple flag points game does give an advantage, too, in that if a frequency collects them all they win not only the flag points, but the flag points worth of instant prize greening (I think it works something like that, at any rate its some heapload of specials bestowed upon them), which is also kind of unfair to the other players. The main point you're raising, Ethy, is that you'd rather there be reward that didn't effect the players' in-play chances of winning/losing at the actual game. Give them points on the scoreboard, not guns and goodies.

I believe (and only quote me on this if you add "not that Nude would know jack") that the flagging games in Chaos are there solely to preserve - in some way - elements of other zones that no longer operate. Its kind of in the same spirit that sees Warzone played out for a couple of hours once a week in a subarena (of Chaos), that 4v4 & Premier League carries on as a subarena (of Chaos), and that other closed zones such as Alpha have (albeit basically unused) subarenas in Chaos. Simply because without this, they may not exist anywhere at all. Keep in mind that flagging in Chaos pub arena is a simultaneous side-game of the general free-for-all of that dominates the arena. Its not the be all and end all. You can choose to participate in flagging, or not, and it kind of melds. I myself have periods of time where I'll swerve to avoid picking up a flag, simply because flagging simply doesn't interest me. Point taken, though hyperbole noted, as the other alterations you have presented would be much more of a bastardisation than just throwing the flags into the mix.

I saw that the recent news.txt (that not everybody reads) mentioned interest in feedback on the recent "8 powerup flags" game that was tried for a reset, and thought it would be worth asking the question here. Which flagging game do you prefer to see in the zone? I'm not adding a poll because I think discussion > polls. A. 8 Flags, no powerups, flag points, and a prize for collecting all. (correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is based on the structure of an old zone called "Jackpot") B. 1 Flag, +1 to bullets and bombs lvl, no additional prizes or 'flag points'. (apparently based on some old place called Running Zone, or Rabbit Zone) C. Combination of both above (our last reset), 8 flags, +1 bullets (but not bombs), flag points and reward for collecting all. (based on three sheets of pasta with bechamel cheese) D. No flags at all? Some folks have mentioned the concept of flags in general is RUBBISH. E. or of course a build your own rabbit zone pizza with your choice of any of the available toppings, delivery $8. Personally, I don't really like any of the flag games too much. But that's mainly 'cause I can't tell who's got a high bty on radar when they're all the same shade of freakin' red. Getting a flag seems to be more expedient as a kind of stealthing device as it is for any of its intended purposes. But if I had to have one, I prefer the rabbitty one, ( Option B ), at least with just one flag, the extra firepower the player has is somewhat offset by the attention his (lone) red dot gets. Perhaps that game, with the feature that the power ball has, in that it appears on the expanded radar regardless of how far away he is, and perhaps regardless of stealth! Ok, all yours.

Quite correct, appreciate the correction. Off to change it now. Couldn't have done this without you. Edit: Bleh, edit seemingly not available for titles and subtitles. I fear you'll have to sit on the blister.

Eww they're a bit chafey.