As far as SSW hosting now going down, it's a shame, but I don't really see it effecting a lot of people. There are still other hosting options such as L.C. and Snrrrub, and I'm sure that somebody can always pick up from where Chambahs has left off. If Confess+ has a problem with somebodies way of doing things.. Oh well, he pays the bills. I figured that this probably wasn't just about the biller, and more so about other things. As for SSC, although they can be a pain in the arse - they were pretty productive in moving my zone from SSI to SSA - considering I'm not exactly an SSC fanboy and haven't said the greatest things about them here, there and elsewhere. There are still a lot of things which bug me, though. As for the secondary biller, I completely agree - it can't be selective at all, however the advantage is that the secondary biller is getting developed *NOW and will be a !@#$%^&* of a lot better, feature and security wise, than SSC. This allows for more complex hosting and allows for even rogue operators of the second biller to only do damage to one thing - their own zone. And to people having power all over Subspace - that spells failure in my book. -Lynx