Zioneer

omg röfl. talk about going off-topic ey. Scores are lost all the time ehehhh Look at JWL, most unorginized league in 17th so far if you ask me, and that's just an example. So for you to point out that Matrix lost scores from one game, röfl that's nothing. Your comment really has no place in this thread.

I DEDICATE THIS NEW RECORD IN ?GO RACE (best racing track ;p) TO YU MATE-RIX!

That sucks man. I don't care what they say about you, you were loyal to the zone for years and did your best to improve it. T'care.. Makaveli/Zioneer

lollllllllllllllllllllll Sorry that just sounds so stupid to me, it's almost funny hehehhhhh Okay so...... why exactly don't you like the Jav? Because... it's lame..? Why do you think it's lame? Because... you suck at it? ..And... you suck at it.... because.... you haven't really played it yet? ROFLMAOSFDSFDSFDSFDSFDSFDSFDSFDSFDSFDA AHAHA.. sorry lol heeeeee Oh and as for the settings, I speak for the true Javelin Nation when I say that you're all insane ;D

lol I definitely wouldn't get mad over something like that, I just find it rather... well.. stupid : Is it maybe because you suck at it? http://www.hitemup.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif

That sux män. I hope you'll come bäkk :x

Lol disrespecting the 17th Jav is a bad idea heh you obviously don't know what you're talking about so I forgive you http://www.hitemup.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif P.S. The standard Jav (JwL Jav) is now everywhere so there's no need for more of these pointless discussions.

If Vile wouldn't have changed anything, they'd probably be banned by now, which would give the zone a bad reputation, which would decrease our newbie-income, which would lead to the death of the zone. Or something! Yeah, like when Nurples began with the changes right, and people complained, would you look at it the same way? Well, in this case, they didn't know what they wanted back, they thought that the #heaven Jav was the "real" Jav, so when they realized that it was the [too] old one, they wanted the JwL Jav, which is the standard Jav now. If they didn't complain and Vile wouldn't have changed it, we'd still have different Javs in different arenas now, that is a bad thing. Heh too late for that. In the past year, upper staff has made the most unecessary changes ever. Changes that nobody asked for, changes that only made everything worse, changes that they didn't even realize what kind of consequences they would give. For real, the way you've let some people change this zone, is sad. Not your fault though, because you wouldn't know what's best either soo my guess is that you just thought that they knew what they were doing right? Hehehehhh

Actually, the Jav was different in different arenas until he changed them to the #heaven Jav, but the #heaven Jav is toooooo old so when they (those who complained) realized that after playing with it in rumble etc, they wanted the JWL Jav everywhere, and I believe it is now.

Well as I said, this isn't finished, if it was, it would probably already been tested by now. "Wishful thinking"? This whole idea comes from my wishful thinking, and I'm making it to reality, but as I've said, it's not finished yet. This bot will be made sooner or later. I won't test the game before everything (including the bot) is finished. You can't just put some flags where it looks good in a base. The reason why I believe that it failed is because the base wasn't designed for the flag game.

Talion, that's what the bot is for, to host games : Heh, that has been tried before, in different ways too, and there's a reason why it has failed.

*wild guess* You still haven't checked it out, have you? lol 1) I think that the objective would be pretty clear once they read the greeting message. "Welcome to 17th Parallel. Hold your territory while attempting to take over your adversary's." 2) It's stationary flags, not mobile. 3) I've already explained why I don't want any other game in the pub map. Yeah, the ball game is easy. But if I kept it, the pub would have different objectives, THAT is what would cause the loss of focus. I mean, just look at pub now. You have like 4 different objectives, so there is no focus. Everyone is doing something different or just killing for the -*BAD WORD*- of it. I think the objective of "holding your own territory" is as clear as "score the ball" lålz, Just that the second one is easier to perform.

oh yeah.. but he doesn't count ;p

Oh, I don't even want it tested yet actually. It's not finished. I'm going to create 2 other flag rooms instead of having 4 "mirrored" flag rooms. Might do that tomorrow. For the record, of everyone who've commented on the map (about 15+) only one said that he dislikes it ;D Funni thing is that he's the co-cap of Feroce and IRL friend (XorX) heheh. But uh, it's not completed yet. Not even ready for testing

I want 17th Pub to be one game. The way it is now, people can do three different things: Score, flag in north (which nobody ever do anymore) or try to win KOTH.Most people just kill. What kind of pub is that? I mean, that's what the Jav events are for. And remember, I designed this pub as a game that can be played as a league. That's the whole point of this project: to make pub a real game that players would find fun and later when the population rises, create a league.. a big league http://www.hitemup.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif Soo.. you see, it would seem silly to me if I threw in King Of The Hill, heh. I think it would be better if we concentrate on one game. Yes. As I said, the Lancaster was designed as a bomber. The guns were only meant to be good for Lanc vs Lanc situations (when they're too close to bomb).

Well, you need to kill whoever is guarding the sectors no? Heh I'm sure it is brilliant, but you have to look at the shipset as a whole and not look at one ship at a time. The point is, the lancaster is a bomber. It was meant to have weak guns. Believe me when I say that hoho and Caress knew what they were doing when they created the shipset, heh. All those details are there for reasons. Nurples and Zeke and whoever else who changed the shipset knew nothing about what they were changing..

The map I made is made for 11vs11 yes. It has more space inside the base than the common 17th Pub map, and I think it's necessary for better battles. NBV's map is a whole different thing. Personally I don't like the narrow spaces because you can't maneuver your ship with much freedom. The lanc is a bomber though. The guns are only good for lanc vs lanc battles when they're too close to bomb. The only difference it would make if I gave it multi would be that it requires less aim, the bullet damage would be the same, so anyone who knows anything would know that it's not good enough to kill. Personally, I would like to keep all the ships from the old shipset how they are because of that "special feeling" that you can't find anywhere else, every single detail that they changed when they first changed it took away a little more of that feeling.. True. That's why I want a bot that would host a 15-30 minute game to make flagging more attracting. But as I said, as it is now, most people are flying around reccing anyway, and the King Of The Hill game adds to the reccing's attraction. There wouldn't be any KOTH game in this arena, so it would be pointless to just fly around and kill. Balling is another thing that would distract people from the flag game. Agreed.

I thank you all for your inputs. About the weasel: I was talking about it with tablet/blue silver yesterday and he made me realize that it shouldn't be named "Scout". The whole idea with the weasel (which I had more than a year ago) was to introduce a new fighter to the zone. I mean, I for one am a little tired of the Jav heh. And as I said more than a year ago, introducing a new fighter would open up doors to new events. Its mission would still be to scout and flag, but it's not just a scout, it's a fighter/scout. It's based on the Javelin. It's actually equal with the Javelin in duels. My english vocabulary isn't exactly the best so I couldn't think of a [military unit] name for the weasel. Anyways, I've done some research and I think that the best name for the weasel would be Hovercraft. Well, weapons in SubSpace are't exactly real, they're from the "future" so they're unknown. The lanc's unique forward-thrust that it receieves when it fires a bomb is one of the reasons why I love that ship. It can be both a weakness and a strength when it comes to maneuvering, you just gotta turn it into your strength. The energy freezes when you use afterburners. Talion, I think you misunderstood some things. Maybe I should have made some things clearer, I'll try to explain. That is just one of the two bases. So one base is 5vs5 (possibly: + backups). You say it's too big for 22 players? Hm.Well, I think you should check it out first. The base is easy to lock, but it's hard to keep it locked when you can be attacked from 4 different directions. Check out the arena. The settings aren't the same as in pub. e.g. there are no ?buy options. Another thing you misunderstood was about who can fly which ship. The setup that I presented is for a hosted game. In pub, anyone can fly anything and anywhere. The ships in this shipset aren't made as ships that can beat any other ship anywhere. That's why there are different ships for different locations and situations. Every ship has weaknesses as much as strengths. The regular newbie in pub would soon learn that he can't just get in a Jav and go straight inside the base and take it over. He'd get schooled by the spiders, and so, he is forced to use another ship. Team play is required for any good game. With this map in the public arena, most players would probably still be flying around in the center of the map. The public arena would need a bot that is modified for pub, e.g. it wouldn't have any half time breaks. Well, he told me that it would be easy to create it, but I'm not sure if he understood exactly what kind of bot I asked him to make, with this post maybe I made it a little clearer for him. I do agree about the map though, it still needs some work. Right now sectors are just mirrored 3x4 1x2. I'm sorry for not making things so clear, I just wanted to post this once and for all lålz I didn't even re-read what I had written. I was thinking about waiting for Jim to help me to make this map, since as we all know that he's the best map maker around here http://www.hitemup.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif Again, thanks for the inputs. I'm glad you like the idea. Together, we can make it work. P.S. I changed the name of the weasel in my first post.

Was a long time ago heheh..

She was sysop? Smod? something http://www.hitemup.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif

This is a log from a long time ago after Zeke and I were discussing the situation in 17th. MikeTheNos> Makaveli, what do you want? Makaveli> I want this zone to be the best, most newbie friendly, and biggest zone in SubSpace MikeTheNos> I know that. But how do you supposed to do that? Makaveli> I know exactly how to do it Mike Makaveli> I've written it down MikeTheNos> ok, how? Makaveli> i actually spent 9 hours writing it one night when I was bored Makaveli> I'm gonna post it on the forum when I come back to Sweden MikeTheNos> Ok, leave the forum alone untill you can actually post that. Well here I am, months later, some days ago I decided to finish what I had began writing and I've just finished the edited version of the do-*BAD WORD*-ents that I wrote (I've deleted the part about staff, since it's very changed from what it was when I wrote it). This is my idea of how to modernize 17th in order to make it bigger, more interesting, and more fun. Please take the time to read it all, and tell me what you think. Let me start off by saying that even though I admire Nurples' and Zeke's hard work on the settings all these months, I have to say that they have changed 17th Parallel completely, just too much. Right now, and for a long time, we haven't been playing 17th how it was made to be played. 17th has a few words that you can read before you enter the zone by left-clicking on the zone. These words were never changed after Nurples and Zeke changed the public gameplay. Which was wise if you ask me, because these words demonstrates how 17th Parallel should be played. "Fast paced team turf style. Keep your own territory while at the same time fighting to take over your adversary's." As it is right now, people only play in bases to score the ball. They have nothing else to do in the bases, so people play wherever. There are rarely any battles in North. The gameplay's main objective is simply to score a ball, and most people don't even do that, they just fly around to get King Of the Hill. "Unique ships and map." As most of you know probably already know, 17th Parallel was the demarcation line between North and South Vietnam. Where the north forces fought against the south forces. Like every war, this was a war about control: with control comes power, and with power comes money (or what we subspacers call "points"). People in upperstaff have thought of different ways of changing the zone to attract players. Vile Requiem wants the pub to a map based on soccer, I truly believe that 17th could be far more interesting than that, and we already have enough scoring zones in SubSpace, why change 17th into something it's not? There was nothing wrong with the old shipset except the weasel. The old shipset was what gave 17th that special feeling that you couldn't find anywhere else, it was how it was supposed to be played. And trust me, I've played this game for more than two years and I've played on almost every zone in SSC, 17th truly was unique. The 17th gameplay couldn't be found anywhere else. So my idea is to bring back the 17th Parallel gameplay, the way the zone was made to be played, but in a modern way, still with the original old theme, but in a new form. I've created a new old map (still might need some work) where each side still fights to control the bases, not over a couple of flags, but over different sectors inside the bases. Each sector contains 4 flags, that would give the team X amount of points per minute. The Ships The unique 17th Parallel gameplay would be impossible to be played without the unique ships, since some people have been ignoring this fact, here are details of the ships that can be called our own (minus the old weasel, I have created my own that might needs some tweaking). The comments under [Mission] is what the ship's mission would be during a hosted game (minus the obvious: to kill the enemy and control the flags) Warbird - Helicopter Equipment: Level 3 bullets, level 2 bombs, x-radar Special(s): 1 Decoy, 1 Repeller, 1 Burst, 1 Thor's Hammer. Strength(s): Ability to carry maximum two turrets, top speed. Weakness(es): Slow acceleration. Final comments: Alone, it can be very powerful if it is flown right, but it's hard to use, so it's not recommended for new players. [Mission]: To transport levis and give backup fire to the weaker teammates. Javelin - Marine Equipment: Level 3 bullets, level 1 bombs. Special(s): 1 Decoy. Strength(s): Excellent maneuverability, short bullet delay, powerful bullets. Weakness(es): Unable to detect cloaked ships. Final comments: The pilot of this ship should keep away from narrow spaces because of the cloakers. [Mission]: To work as backup for the weaker teammates. Spider - Guerilla Equipment: Level 1 bullets (single barrel), level 1 bombs/mines, cloak, stealth. Special(s): 3 Bursts, 3 Portals, 1 Decoy. Strength(s): Able to cloak and stealth, able to portal. Weakness(es): Weak bullets, weak bombs, slow acceleration speed and comparably low maximum energy. Final comments: The spider is a basing ship, it's a !@#$%^&*an in bases, but weak in open spaces. Against X-Radarless ships, it's almost invinsible in narrow spaces because of its unique specials: burst and portal. But even the ships who are equipped with X-Radar have to watch out because of the spider's unique ability to portal. The Terrier is the Spider's worst enemy because of its unique ability to prevent warping. [Mission]: To wait till the right moment when many enemies are in the same narrow area, and whipe out as many of them as possible by bursting. Leviathan - Heavy Artillery Equipment: Level 3 bullets, level 3 bombs. Special(s): 3 Thor's Hammers. Strength(s): Extremely powerful and fast bombs, very high maximum energy. Equipped with Thor's Hammer that can p!@#$%^&* through walls. Weakness(es): Slow recharge, slow rotation, slow speed, inattachable. Final comments: It's the only ship that can carry level 3 bombs, it's the ship that does most damage with one hit. Its very short bullet delay makes it dangerous for the enemy to attack it in close battles, but by taking advantage of its weaknesses, it shouldn't be a problem. "Very slow and often used to defend choke points or to act as a turret". [Mission]: To work as a backup unit together with the warbird (turret) or lock a hallway by bombing from a bunker. Terrier - Jeep Convoy Equipment: Level 1 bullets (single barrel), level 2 bombs/mines, stealth, anti-warp. Special(s): 3 Repellers, 1 Decoy. Strength(s): Able to lay maximum 8 mines, 6 before recharging is needed. Able to repel away enemy. Able to prevent enemy from warping and can detect cloaked ships. Weakness(es): Hard to maneuver, weak single barrel bullets. Final comments: Because of its mines, x-radar, anti-warp and repeller, the terrier is a very important defender ship. [Mission]: To mine the sector's entrances and to repel enemy mines/ships/fire. Weasel - Hovercraft Equipment: Level 2 bullets. Special(s): 1 Decoy. Strength(s): Top speed (afterburners), agility. Weakness(es): The only ship that isn't equipped with bombs. Inattachable Final comments: The Weasel (Hovercraft) is the only ship that has afterburners, which almost doubles its maximum speed, so obviously, the weasel is the ultimate flagging ship. [Mission]: To flag as much as possible and to work as backup unit in weaker positions. Lancaster - Napalm Plane Equipment: Level 2 bullets (single barrel), level 2 bombs, x-radar. Special(s): (None). Strength(s): Bombs that can bounce six times before they explode, each bomb releases a large amount of shrapnel when it explodes. Able to see cloaked ships. Weakness(es): The Lancaster is the ship with the weakest bullets, single barrel level 2, with relatively long delay between shots, so it has no defense when its enemy is too close to bomb. Final comments: Because of its bouncing bombs, The Lancaster is probably the most effective base defender/attacker. [Mission]: To lock the square sectors and hallways. Shark - Special Ops Unit Equipment: Level 2 bullets, level 2 bombs/mines, stealth, cloak. Special(s): 2 decoys, 2 bricks. Strength(s): Invisible to most enemy ships, wide bullet spread. Weakness(es): Not so very powerful bullets. Final comments: The shark is a fighter/bomber that has an extra ability: to mine. Its bullets are weaker than a normal fighter, but it can also have wider spread when multi-fire is turned on. [Mission]: Its main area is in the tube where bricks can be needed during an enemy invasion. When the home base is locked, its mission is to block entrances with mines and bricks when the enemy arrives. The Gameplay The map can be found at ?go NewOldMap The bases are formed by 6 different sectors. The objective is to gain as much control (flags) as possible. Each pilot is sent to control the flags in his sector. The team is divided by 3 groups, the north division, the south division, and the backups. The backups are pilots that don't have any specific positions, but are sent to help in a sector where the enemy has locked it too well for the positioned teammates to invade. The divisions are formed by 1 terrier, 2 lancasters, 1 shark and 1 spider. The backups are formed by 1 levi, 1 warbird and 1 weasel OR javelin. Each ship has an area where it works best. Though, all ships are needed almost everywhere depending on the situation, but when a team locks a base, each pilot should hold his position. So a team consists of: 2 terriers, 4 lancasters, 2 sharks, 2 spiders, 1 levi, 1 warbid and 1 weasel/javelin 11 in total. Logically, a game like this would require skilled management for the teams. A team would need a north captain, a south captain, and a "general". The captains should be the terriers or sharks, since they can see most of what's going on. The general doesn't even need to play in a ship. It would actually be easier for him to lead his team from spec, so that he can see the whole battlefield and know where his groups are needed where. I am in need of a bot that would host this kind of game, but more about that when Explody Thingy is finished with it A hosted game would go something like this.. First of all, before anything, pilots must discuss who plays in which ship and in which position. The teams start in their own safety (west or east). When the host (bot) says "go", the pilots rush to get the flags, (the weasel would obviously be the first to touch a flag, but it's inattachable so people can't just attach to it, they have to transport themselves). After 30 minutes, the bot displays the half time scores. After a minute or two of half time break, the bot resets the flag game and starts the second half. Before the second half starts, the team should decide if the divisions switch sides or not. After the second half is over, the final scores are displayed by the bot in a green arena message. I believe that this would attract new players: by giving you something that you can't find anywhere else. Sure, dsb has the same way of hosting a game like this, but everything else is different and unique. I also strongly believe that this is how 17th was made to be played, I can honestly say that I don't believe this is my idea, it was the 17th creators' idea, the concept of the game has been right in front of our noses, it's just that nobody seemed to see it for some reason.. I just saw it and this is my idea of modernizing it.

I can't play another -*BAD WORD*- game without getting bored of it after a day or two.. Only SubSpace does it for me ;DDDD -PROUD to say that he hasn't really played another game since he descovered subspace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lääääääää

This reminds me of the time when crazychic used to host when she was sysop lol

Very true. People stopped playing events like a year ago. I remember when pub and events would have almost same amount of players.. now that only happens during leagues :

mad you shouldn't talk about something that you have no knowledge of.