exactly uh....I blame them for allowing it to be fux0red bull where have you been? obviously not in 17th in the past year - it went through a ton of different maps and there was A WHOLE -*BAD WORD*- LOT of development stuff that was NEVER USED - why? - because all the sysops were either PERMANENTLY indisposed (nurples / mike) or they were off on their own crusades (vile, zeke) and couldn't be bothered with actually improving the zone except with the specific thing they wanted done I mean q-p made about 40 tilesets, nice tilesets - she showed them to me - she made them FOR 17TH - she was on the unfortunate "dev staff" and they never used A SINGLE TILESET - they still haven't as far as I know (except the test maps lava made perhaps...I forget) Zeke was active, I'll give him that, I didn't agree with most of his settings changes, but he was working for improvement Vile did some very nice things, good maps, some good sets - but they weren't used because the staff was (and still is) b0rked. Nurples I understand, he was barely able to use the computer for a long time. Mike...I really abhor people that continue to retain the !@#$%^&*le of "owner" when they do next to nothing a sysop should do, but I understand why he's hanging on It's just sad. Maybe nobody in particular is to blame, but that's no reason to continue on with these nutso settings and silly map.