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So your comment had no point other than to say "right back at ya". I'm sorry, i thought you were trying to make a point that you could back up. Most of us got beyond that level of argument in primary school.

I live by my knowledge of probable outcomes, i guess that might be what you would call a belief. It's probable that you and i will wake up alive tomorrow and continue this discussion, but I don't accept probable outcomes as truth. Even if you happen to say something true, you would not even know you had done so. There is always some reason to doubt, no matter how ridiculous that doubt may be. I can only conclude that true wisdom lies in the acknowledgement that all we know for certain is that we know nothing else for certain. Religion in it's very first principle (faith) asks me to betray MY very first principle. What more obvious claim to ignorance does a system of beliefs need than to ask me for faith.

Some people just need answers for the sake of having answers.

Yes, it's the same thing. From the wiki page: "The Doppler effect for electromagnetic waves such as light, is of great use in astronomy, and results in either a so-called redshift or blueshift."

Red-shift happens when an object is moving away from you at a significant fraction of the speed of light. When a light wave loses energy it gets "redder" meaning the length of it's waves gets longer (longer wavelength). If an emitting object is moving away from you then those light-waves will be emitted at times similar to the typical time for the wave to move through one wave-length of distance. Thus the movement of the emitting object away from the observer causes the wavelength to get longer. A typical example: Have you ever wondered why an approaching car sounds higher when it's coming towards you and lower when it's going away? (Neeeeee-urghhhhhhh) It's because the sound is blue-shifted when it's coming towards you and red-shifted when it's moving away. The red-shift is one way in which we can judge the expansion rate of the universe. Spectroscopy allows us to identify the elements present in distant stars, and the amount of red-shift in the spectrum tells us how quickly the star is moving away from us.

I've studied physics at university for four years. The electromagnetic force cannot be reponsible for holding the atom together and it's rather simple to understand why when i tell you a little about the atom. At the turn of the century scientists believed in a "plum-pudding" model of the atom where all the positive protons and negative electrons were intermingled in a chaotic manner. Then a man named Ernest Rutherford came along and fired small positively charged particles (alpha particles) at some gold foil. Everyone expected the particles to be absorbed or bounced back by the gold atoms in the foil. To his surprise nearly all the particles went straight through! The only way to explain the results was to imagine the atom as being a small positively charged nucleus, orbitted by negatively charged electrons. The electromagnetic force causes like-charges to repel, like when you put magnets together in the wrong way. Given this law of physics, how can a nucleus have all it's positively charged parts clumped together in it's centre? The answer is it's impossible without another force, as the electromagnetic force would blow the nucleus apart. This force is called the Strong-Nuclear force. It acts over a small range to hold together the protons in the nucleus. Neutrons also reside in the nucleus and are electrically neutral and thus cannot be affected by the electromagnetic force. They are however influenced by the Strong Nuclear force and the neutrons act to separate the protons, reducing the effects of the electromagnetic force between them. The strong force can be witnessed in action by firing protons/neutrons (a beam) at other protons/neutrons (a target) and measuring the angles and energies of those which are scattered. From these measurements we can determine the forces which acted on our beam of protons/neutrons when they reached their target. We see that the protons are repelled from eachother unless they have enough initial energy to get close enough for the strong force to take effect, causing fusion (usually temporary before fission). The electromagnetic force acts between protons and electrons. The electrons orbit the nucleus in very specific orbits. This is nothing at all like the planets which can orbit at any distance.

There is so much wrong with that post, i wouldn't know where to start. Are you serious?

I don't have a purpose, my life isn't purposeful. However, i know that human beings DESIRE a purpose, among other things that religion offers. Secondly, i see that the purpose religion offers is purely superficial and based on faith in immaterial beings. Putting these two points together... well, it doesn't take a genius to see the false-appeal of religion. It is a temptation, because i like all humans desire a purpose, eternal life, moral righteousness, ultimate knowledge, and a path to perfection. The problem with your religion is i can see that it's offering me everything i could possibly want, yet the certainty that it will fulfil it's promises is lacking. There is something else in the world that works in this way: a drug. Do you think the Devil would have really given Jesus the kingdoms he offered? (Yes i've read the Bible) There's a reason why the desperate and the weak turn to religion... If there is a God then my gut-instinct tells me that he would respect the open-mind i have kept in response to the questions of existence. He would respect the curiousity i have had for his creation, and my pursuit of knowledge. So if by chance there is a God who sends people to heaven or !@#$%^&* upon our deaths, then from what i have learnt of this world i would be sent to heaven and you to !@#$%^&*. Remember PullstripSquid that the Bible is only man's interpretation of God's word. It could be completely falsified, or written in a way to manipulate the word of God.

There's more ThunderJam: (Luke 22:10) Disciples: "Jesus, where will the next passover be when you are gone?" Jesus: "Behold, when ye are entered in the city, there shall a man meet you bearing a pitcher of water... follow him into the house where he entereth in" The next astronomical age is Aquarius, the symbol of which is a man holding a pitcher of water. All the references to fish, the act of Moses telling people to stop worshipping the golden calf (the previous astronomical symbol to the fish), and the constant references to the "new age" are in support of the rather obvious bit of evidence i've quoted above. The point is that the agreed upon date is the 25th of December. The similarities stretch beyond the Egyptian god Horus. Another is the Pagan god Mithra, and another is the Hindu messiah Krishna. The list goes on to at least 16 "saviours", many of which pre-date Jesus, and most of which share the virgin birth, the embodiment of God in man, the birth on the 25th, the 12 disciples, and so on...

I'm not trying to prove God false, that would be just as foolish. It's foolish to believe one way or the other without sufficient evidence to back up your claim. God may exist, yet you seem convinced that he does, why? Who said anything about hate? How can i hate something i'm not sure exists. Eternal life is very desirable, and if i had the slightest chance of being granted eternal life by believing in God then i would believe... such is the power of the human instinct to survive. It's in our genetics and in the genes of every animal on the planet. Human beings desire a purpose, a meaning, eternal life, ultimate knowledge, moral goodness, and all round perfection because it's in our nature to want it. Now i ask you, why are you REALLY a Christian?

The temptation to submit to a religion is great, isn't it Pulltripsquid? Cowardise is an unpleasant attribute in a person. I will not give up logic and reason in response to fear-mongers who try to dangle me over the !@#$%^&*-fire and say "Hot enough for ya?".

Even slaves have freedom. They can choose to disobey their masters.

i think we're all born free, but for some that freedom is taken away quicker than for others.

That's right, science is continually advancing, and just as Einstein's theory produced minor adjustments to Newtons theory (for typical velocities), there may be more yet to come. A few theories i can think of about faster than light travel: If you could annihilate all the matter in an object, such as a spaceship, and project that light-energy in a way that preserves all the information (a kind of matter stream), then as long as the energy can be re-integrated into matter, an object could be transported vast distances at light-speed. Of course you'd need a receiver at the other end with an energy2matter conversion device. This is way beyond our abilities. If you could fold space, then we may not need to reach the light-speed barrier. If dark matter could be contained within magnetic fields then it's anti-gravity properties could be utilised to propel a spaceship to great speeds.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't care whether God exists and are agnostic. The point is, caring has nothing to do with it. It's what you believe (or don't believe) that defines your belief system... to state the obvious. If you believe completely that God doesn't exist then you are an atheist, if you don't believe there is sufficient evidence to believe one way or the other then you are agnostic.

Yup true.

Incorrect, thats a theist, not an agnostic. Agnostic means you don't believe in a God, and don't disbelieve in God either. In my opinion there may be a God because the definition of a God makes looking for Gods impossible. The answer is strictly 50/50 (despite what Richard Dawkins might believe).

I always defined an atheist as someone who categorically denies the existence of God. Surely this then requires faith in the same way that Christianity requires it. An Atheist is !@#$%^&*uming that there is no God. This is why i call myself an agnostic. My question is therefore to people who call themselves atheists. Why are you an atheist?

Iran is developing nuclear power. There is no evidence to suggest they are building (or even desire) a nuclear weapon. Iran is co-operating with the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency. The US has tried to incriminate Iran with false reports: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5346524.stm He is en!@#$%^&*led to his views on the Holocaust, and those views don't present a danger to anyone. Everything else on your list is utter speculation. I commend the fact that he tours university's and gives lectures. I commend the fact that he offered President Bush direct talks, which Bush refused.

Words of wisdom from Sama. You don't need religion to be nice to people, and if thats the case then would taking that religion away cause those people to be nasty and selfish? Anyway, it's quite obvious that the "Caring for your neighbour" doctrine has not taken, and we should seek to eliminate Christianity for betraying itself.

I'm not speaking here as an agnostic, but as a scientist. Light has no known properties that indicate intelligence. As far as i know time does stand still for the travelling observer at the speed of light. Time dilation becomes infinite and everything stands still from the travellers perspective. Thus if you travel at the speed of light then you will never get old and die from the perspective of those who are not travelling at your speed. From your perspective you will live a normal life (as normal as possible at light-speed) as your view of time will be proper in your frame of reference. M!@#$%^&* does increase to infinity at the speed of light. Jesus and God have been attributed to light because all ancient religions viewed the stars and the sun as the Gods. These astronomical markers have been carried through to the Bible. The Jesus story is significant in this respect as the 25th of December holds special astronomical significance, and the story would run parallel to this yearly occurence if we considered Jesus to represent the "morning star"... something he is actually called in the Bible. I think this is a much more likely reason.

I believe in Sama!