Delic

lål, there certainly ain't enough votes for that poll to really matter though. Plus anyone can make multiple accounts and vote more than once, so it's not reliable. VoteBot would be more suitable for this, I don't know if it's fixed though O.o

wäsup. You're lag dr@gon right? You got a similar name as my squaddy Saty :OOOOOOOOOOOO

Stop being mean to Zeke, he was only doing what he was told to Even if it äll sukked HI Zeke! -Mäkävëlï

Don't take those stupid children seriously Don't let them get to you, ignore them. You're here to have funm faaawwwwwwk them. ?ignore %tickname ;D PM me if someone's acting stewpid and I'll deal wit 'em

Oh my God. I have to repeat myself.. again? *shocked* The only things I'm !@#$%^&*uming is that players would like to have more freedom in this game and have a gameplay with a scenario based on true things and with ships based on real units, plus be able to develop their skills. But ships are still different enough to ensure distinct advantages and disadvantages in the various possible matchups. Of course they do' date=' but their weaknesses and their strenghts were flipped around and modified and twisted up, so now we no longer have unique ships, we have ships that are easier to use and similar ships can be found in many other zones. Again you seem to have misunderstood what I've said. What took the old ships more skills to use has nothing to do with the fact that they were more different from eachother than our current ships. They took more skills to use because they were harder to master. But, the variation that the old ship settings had, gave the gameplay more ways of fighting, it made it more fun. Each ship had weaknesses as well as strengths. A pilot could take advantage of his opponent's weaknesses depending on the situation and location by using a ship that was suitable for that situation. For example, would you say that the military of Vietnam was more skilled, or superior than the american military? I don't think so, but since the american units couldn't adapt to the vietnamese environment, that the VietCong was used to, they weren't successful. I hope that makes you understand what I mean.

Wrong. Our current settings fits no one. In fact' date=' there's been more complaints about the settings [b']after[/b] they changed them than before, so how can you say that? And I can !@#$%^&*ure you that we'll have all kinds of problems with the gameplay until someone either changes them back to the ones we had before (with some tweaks like burst damage and a new fighter weasel, which were the ONLY changes necessary), or makes a new one from scratch. I heard Vile was going to do this (new setts), we'll see how that works Of course there is, but the need of a variation of ships in a team isn't as needed as it was needed in 17th, since the ships were so different from eachother, they were basically all different kinds of ships, unlike dsb who has 4 fighters, 2 bombers and 2 empers/fighters. Again, I don't understand how you can try to argue with this. Are you saying that the the old ships weren't all that different from eachother? A generalisation' date=' no doubt. Consider how few of 'us' there are left. Why should the zone change for the whims of the minority?[/quote'] Because the gameplay would be more fun for everyone. I wouldn't want the old settings back if I didn't think it would be for the best of the entire zone. They required more skills, they were harder to get good at, which means that newbies would have to develop their skills in order to get better. There's no doubt about it. As soon as they understand the settings and how they work' date=' I'm sure they'd never want to see the current settings again. More variation = more fun, how can you not agree with me on this? The gameplay is like a game of chess, the settings have basically taken away half of the pieces and crippled the game by doing so. No fun. The new ships were tweaked so that all ships could kill any other ship. This is obvious so if you can't even see that then I don't think we'll be getting much out of this discussion. I have explained over and over again why. It feels like I've been repeating myself this whole time.. I'm not supposing anything, I know this for a fact, I know how this zone works, I know a lot about how shipsetts work and what kind of impact the changes have given the gameplay, and I know about the mistakes made in the past. I know what I'm talking about. Unlike talion who still doesn't have a clue, so I won't even bother replying to him, heh. Well' date=' the settings were changed a lot of times. It's the changes made by Nurples, someone who didn't have a clue what he was doing, that I consider as the "new setting changes", along with Zeke's. He tweaked the settings way before Zeke did, and before mummy was uploaded. He was criticized for the changes he made, and wasn't even concerned. Most of our vets left when they felt like 17th was nothing as the 17th they once knew, like Night Dragon for example. Not being able to go anywhere with a Jav perhaps, that's why team work was more required back then. Are you kidding me? That's a ridiculous thing to say.. I don't think I've heard anyone who's supposed to be a vet say anything more stupid before. The old settings took months of playing to truly master' date=' unlike the current ones that take much less. I didn't say that it would reduce team work. Team work is always needed in a team' date=' how much team work people use all depends on the players who're in the game. What I said was that by making the ships similar to eachother, the need of different ships would reduce. Correct me if I'm wrong. Two spawn points, you mean like, the teams spawn inside their own base? What would there be to fight about then? If the teams already spawn inside a base. And I don't know why you say that the old ships can be mastered in a week, I think a lot of vets would say that it took them awhile to get good at them. The only ships that didn't take much to master would be the old weasel and the spider. The old weasel should've been replaced with a new fighter to compete with the jav and the spider's burst damage should've been reduced, that's all. All other ships were perfect for this zone, and don't ask me again how I can say this because I've proved it already. I also don't understand how you can dislike ships that are specialized in different things, that's what makes it fun and more realistic. The old 17th made sense and should be put back because they were (for the most part) designed after real things, that's what made 17th fun and interesting. I do believe we need a new map though, that's what we needed in the first place. Jim tell me you still have the map you had uploaded in ?go PubMap before they uploaded mummy in pub ;D

Talion, the old settings were designed by the creators of this zone, they shaped the settings after this zone, that is why they suit this zone, how can you not understand this? They made this zone, they created it from scratch and that's why their settings are great, because they were made for this zone. And no, you didn't betray 17th Parallel, because you never knew 17th, so you couldn't possibly betray it. See' date=' that's what made 17th different: team work between different ships was required. A team couldn't attack another team with only one type of ship, because the team that used all the ships would win by taking advantage of the other ship's weaknesses. What you want is any ship to be able to kill any other ship anywhere, this is what Zeke tried to do. That means that team work wouldn't be as necessary, which means that the ability to work together as a team by co-operating with all these different kinds of combat types that the old ship settings provided would no longer be needed. That's why the new settings are considered less fun by us who've played with the old settings. That's what made the old settings so great and fun, the variation between the ships and the fact that a team could only be successful by combining the ships. You say that the old ships couldn't fight eachother on equal terms, I say that each ship had a specific purpose depending on the situation and location. If a levi is heading towards a base when there's a spider in it, -*BAD WORD*- nah it's not equal terms, and the levi would learn that, and that would force the pilot to use another ship which was more suitable for the situation that he was facing. That's what made the old ship settings so great. But how can you say that the other ships didn't work for anything else than pub? That's just a re-*BAD WORD*-ed thing to say, I'm sorry. Events HAVE been made for other ships and they've all worked perfectly fine (like flagcap and lancwar). Sure, there still hasn't been any really successful event for a ship other than jav, but that's only because no one has TRIED to make one. As I've said, the old settings didn't work because they were judged by the "testers" before they even gave them a chance. These people rarely even played this game, so of course they wouldn't understand the value of the things they ruined. Few people know the real mistakes that have been made in this zone, that is why we're still stuck today, since they can't learn from something that they don't know anything about.

What you're saying is that we should create a completely new zone, with new settings and a completely new style of map? That we should just forget about the settings that our former sysops designed to match this zone's theme so perfectly? Then you might as well change the zone name then, for real. As for why the settings didn't "work", I've already explained why. I look down at you people, for real, I look at you and I see traitors, how silly that may sound.

Hey this is a rather important topic, always good to discuss this

I have never said that the majority of the current players would prefer the old settings. However, I do believe that players who've never been here before will play whatever it is that we give them, since they don't know anything else, since they're NEW. As I said' date=' players would have came here despite of what settings we had, how can you think otherwise? Let's turn this around, how can YOU assume that the newbies [b']wouldn't[/b] have liked the old settings better? Everyone who's anyone KNOWS that the ship settings have been cripplied, and that they now are much easier to use and that they simply have been newbiefied, and just because nobody will give the old settings a chance it doesn't change the fact that they are more suitable for this zone as they take more skills, and were designed after the theme.

Wth. This is exactly what made 17th so fun and unique' date=' that the different ships have different unique abilities/skills and different ways of combat. It was also good to have ships specialized for specific purposes because it forced you to use different ships, depending on the situation. Warbird: Troop carrier. Javelin: Fighter craft. Spider: Ambush craft. Leviathan: Long range heavy bomber. Terrier: All-purpose support craft. [s']Weasel[/s]: Shock attack craft. Lancaster: Close range bomber. Shark: Cloakable fighter/bomber. I mean... what other ship settings are better suited for this zone? You might as well change the name of the zone if you're going to change everything that has to do with 17th Parallel. To be honest I wouldn't even mind the old weasel, it was the easiest ship to kill if you had x-radar, but to see a new fighter that could compete with the jav would be nice, plus it would open doors to new events. God I've been saying that for years

KEYWORDS: brief period. They NEVER gave the old settings a chance. They were up again for less than a week and they expected the population to be at top again by then' date=' fools.

So much ignorance... gah.

Sup Pjuri

... Most players are like guests, and we (the staff) are the hosts. We present to them what we have to offer and if they like it they will stay with us. This isn't really about what players want, it's about what upperstaff provides them with. Because you're right, people don't know what they want, because upperstaff doesn't know what to provide them with, so they just stick with what we have, and tweak it a bit, in fear that if they offer something that they don't like, they will all leave. Hm' date=' can't seem to find his name in the scores site [img']http://www.ssforum.net/public/style_emoticons/default/blum.gif[/img]

Neither of those two staffers knew anything about this zone' date=' neither of them had any real contact with the community, so how can you say that? It seems to me that you NBV defend whatever it is that upper staff does, without really considering the effects of the actions they've done and do has on the gameplay. Fact is, Vile got owned by spiders, he got upset about it and that's why he made this change. That's what he said himself. Now, if you're a sysop, you can't just look at it like that, you have to look at the gameplay from a higher perspective, not from one single ship's/player's point of view. This seems to be difficult for most people. Nurples and Zeke listened to whiners and made all the ships easier to fight with, instead of looking at the gameplay as a whole. I'll just shut up about that now because it's probably just like talking to a wall, and I as I said, there's no way that upper staff (Mike, pern too probably, and some others) will admit that most of the changes that have been made in the past 2 and a half years have slowly made the zone worse, or maybe they just don't see it. Nothing in pub makes sense anymore when it comes to the gameplay/[b']17th Parallel[/b] It's all like a big mess and it seems like everyone forgot what this zone is supposed to be about. No one even considers the Vietnam theme anymore, and the people who changed the ships didn't even think about what the ships' purpose (missions) would be. See, that is the difference between the new settings and the old settings. The new settings are just unnecessary tweaks, the old settings were well thought of and were designed the way that they were designed for a reason, other than to please the usual whiner. And no, I'm not saying that I'm above all others and that I know more than everyone about this zone, I know what I know and I know that some people made changes that they just should not have made, because it messed this zone up. If we want this zone to grow, and I don't mean just grow population-wise, but also have a gameplay with quality so that both subspace veterans and newbies have something to play for, we need to give people something that can't be found in any other zone, something unique, something that has some meaning in it. We lost all that long ago. Until you people in charge realize that, we'll be stuck with all kinds of problems forever. If you make a change, you explain why you made it by showing everyone the benefits of the change. Nobody who've had the power of changing things in this zone have been able to do something as simple as that.

Yes, I know that it's become a tactic now Rix, the most stupidest a SubSpace zone can provide. This game is supposed to be about one team FIGHTING another, with weapons, until one team defeats the other one by killing them, not by making them disappear, wtf. This only shows how foolish the 17th gameplay has become. Vile, you're a very technical person, which seems like both your weakness and your strength I suppose you only read the BrickSpan when you checked the settings in ?go oldmap.. because in there Sharks don't even have bricks. My definition of "old settings" is how the settings were before Nurples and Zeke started their changes, which means how the previous SysOps had left them. Bricks had a span of 3 pixels. I'm surprised that you don't remember ?go Oldmap2

I just had a vision. The vision told me that if we change back to old arena/ship settings everything will be fixed. Omg. Seriously though... old bricks = much harder to brick-warp with but still has the function that bricks should have. But it doesn't seem to matter how much I prove to these silly upper staffers that changing back to old settings would be better.. because they couldn't possibly admit that all these changes were bad changes PLUS, Vile's next plan is going to fix everything.

ähäh I was gonna post steve urkel

Vile got owned by spiders one day and decided to do this I say lower it to 35 or 34

LÖL!!!!!!!!!!!!111123456789 Fitting. We started something like this in Feroce forum a couple of days ago

I agree

CHANGE BACK ALL SHIPS KTHXBAIZ

I first saw the spawning-where-you-die thing in 17th's old ?go coliseum years ago :1

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