Confess Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 "Over 90% of abortions done in the United States employ the suction method, used during the first three months of the child's life. In this method, a tube connected to a suction device is inserted into the mother's womb. The force created by the device tears the child's body apart and draws the pieces into a container for disposal." "The most common method of abortion between 13 and 20 weeks of the baby's life, is dialation and evacuation. In this method, a pair of forceps(tweezers) is inserted into the mother's womb, where they are used to dismember the child and then drag out the body parts. These tiny parts are often re!@#$%^&*embled to make sure none of the child's remains are left in the womb." Think of the last baby you held in your arms. Now think of tearing it to pieces. "Another method is the dilation and curettage method. This method involves using a loop-shaped knife called a curette to scrape the womb, severing the child's attachment to the mother. The baby's body is then cut into small pieces, and the head may be crushed to fit through the opening of the womb." Now imagine chopping up that baby like a steak. That was a baby. A life. "At 20 weeks, salt poisening is more occasionally used. Using a long needle, they inject a salt solution into the amniotic sac. This concentrated salt solution is then swallowed and inhaled by the child, causing hemorraging, shock, and often painful burning of the skin. The child trashes about as it slowely dies, usually within an hour and a half. The dead child is then dilivered within 2-3 days." "After the 20th week, partial birth abortion is preformed. The child is delivered alive just as in a normal birth, except that he is delievered feet first. When all of his body but the head is outside of the mother, the child is then killed by puncturing the base of his skull and using a suction device to remove his brain, collapsing the skull so that the head can fit more conveniently through the opening of the birth canal." "10,000-15,000 abortions are preformed after the baby is capable of surviving outside the womb. When the child is so far advanced hysterotomy abortions are usually preformed. In this procedure, the child is surgically removed from the womb but is laid aside to die from neglect; a medical team would work around the clock the save this same child if he was born prematurely and wanted." They try to tell you abortion isn't murder. It's nothing but murder. I hope this was disturbing to you and I hope it scarred you for life.
Confess Posted October 23, 2005 Author Report Posted October 23, 2005 I don't. It's a waste of sex. Perhaps you should reword that..
Dr Brain Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 I agree totally with you confess, but you posted this in the wrong forum.
»Purge Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 I don't. It's a waste of sex. Perhaps you should reword that.. Yeah. It's against my Christianity, so I'm against it either way.
redhotchilipeppers_chick Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 I'm against abortion, i don't think it's right for any reason.
Kameloh Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) . Edited July 11, 2007 by Kameloh
Tipme Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 wellif you're gonna have an abortion at least get rid of it creatively like maybe play basketball with the fetus or something
»Maverick Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 The most things you said in your post are utterly BS, confess. It was only meant to scare people so they start believing abortion is bad. [Moving to Politics Forum]
MonteZuma Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 Abortion is ugly, but up until the point where a fetus has consciousness, the mother should be able to choose what happens to her body. If she chooses an abortion then that is her choice and she can live with the consequences. You and I and the president of the united states should mind our own business and concentrate on protecting the rights of living people, rather than parasitic agglomerations of cells that have no more awareness of their own existance than a potato.
»Ducky Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 Are you trying to say Mr. Potato head has no awareness?I don't think Mrs. Potato head will take kindly that statement http://www.neonraven.com/images/mr%20phead.jpg
MonteZuma Posted October 23, 2005 Report Posted October 23, 2005 Are you trying to say Mr. Potato head has no awareness?I don't think Mrs. Potato head will take kindly that statement http://www.neonraven.com/images/mr%20phead.jpgTrue. I have learned from my statement that analogies can be misused and misunderstood. I sincerely regret if what I said causes anybody to misunderstand my true feelings. Vegetables and their families deserve our respect, admiration and total support. Ducky, it is very clear that even though I thought I had said something that clarified the situation, to many people it was still unclear. I'm sorry if anything that I said caused any offense or pain to those who have such fond feelings for Mr Potato head, the greatest potato of our time. Nothing, nothing should ever be said to demean or diminish his great personality. I'm also sorry if anything I said in any way cast a negative light on other fruits and vegetables. I went to market earlier. When you look in the eyes of the potatoes, you see your son and daughter. They are the best. I never, ever intended any disrespect for them. Some may believe that my remarks crossed a line. To them, I extend my heartfelt apologies.
Hackysack Posted October 24, 2005 Report Posted October 24, 2005 I happen to be prochoice. What most people dont understand that is abortions are normally given when the fetus still hasn't experienced a form of "life". I also dont see how you could think that a women who gets raped and get pregnant as a result should bare the weight of having the child. Why give birth to a rapists baby? Not to mention what if the doctors diagnose the child to grow up with mental disabilities. Ill carry on with this someother time.
»SD>Big Posted October 24, 2005 Report Posted October 24, 2005 i believe that as soon as an egg is fertalized... it's a lifeform... given its natural course, it will become a full grown human being. the only thing seperating a fertalized egg from a full grown human is time. so to me, any abortion is murder, in a way. but then the question comes up, what if a woman is raped? does she have to bare this child, does she have to take care of it, be responsible for it? and its not as if she has a choice sometimes, a bond between mother and baby is strong. what if a 16 year old girl with let's say everything ahead of her, top of her class, etc etc etc... then she's raped and becomes pregnant, what then?
MonteZuma Posted October 24, 2005 Report Posted October 24, 2005 QUOTE(SD>Big @ Oct 24 2005, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>what if a 16 year old girl with let's say everything ahead of her, top of her class, etc etc etc... then she's raped and becomes pregnant, what then?Dunno, but using your clear-cut moral code, she would be a murderer AND a rape victim if she had an abortion. Is the girl in your example in a more tragic situation than a 16yo girl with nothing going for her...dysfunctional family life, victim of abuse, drug addicted, no emotional or financial support or resources, etc, etc... getting drunk or stoned one night and falling pregnant to some equally disadvantaged boy who disappears as soon as the pregnancy test results come through? Fwiw, the 16yo in your example is probably better equipped emotionally and financially to raise a rapist's child than the girl in my example is for raising her own child. Life is complicated. Children make life even more complicated. If the emotional pain of an abortion is less than the pain !@#$%^&*ociated with rearing the child then the woman should have the right to choose. Why should our moral standards be imposed on others? I've known a few women who've had abortions. It wasn't an easy decision and they didn't feel good about it. I don't feel the need to rub salt into their wounds and label them as murderers. I suspect that I've actually known many more women that have had abortions, but are too ashamed to discuss it. Who knows? Maybe your mother had an abortion when she was 16? Maybe your best friends mother? Maybe the girl in Physics class? Maybe the women in the cubicle opposite? You'll never know, but the stats are mind-blowing. 43% of women will have an abortion by age 45. Do you really think it is fair to label over 20% of the population of the US and other countries as murderers and another 20% or more (the fathers and famillies) as accomplices to murder? EDIT...just realised how crappy my math was here....If abortion is murder then 20% of the population are murderers! - not 20% of women.
Aileron Posted October 24, 2005 Report Posted October 24, 2005 Look, I'd say that the 16 yr old girl shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion. We have fingerprints. We have DNA. We have huge national databases. We should track down the bum who got her pregnant and make him come back and marry her, or atleast pay child support. Shotgun weddings at first glance may not appear to be a good option, but its what's best for the child. I know its diffcult, but there are still plenty of jobs in the country that can support the couple enough to raise a family. I mean, we are talking about first-world countries here. For us in the United States, if we can put a man on the moon, we certainly have the resources and know-how to support a few babies...heck in 20 years those babies would probably give something back to the country anyways, so supporting those babies would actually make us stronger. Thus it comes down to whether or not we want to do the extra work of supporting unwanted children, or if we want to take the easy way out and abort them. If we need social reform, we should do social reform. We shouldn't just sacrifice lives out of unwillingness the commit to solving the tough problems. As for the fetus's rights and current status as a person, their current status is irrelevant. In good old fashioned murder, which we all agree is wrong, the victim isn't denied their present state or their past state. If a 30 yr old man is shot, he was still clearly a person for the past 30 yrs. The only thing that is denied that man is the future 42 years he would have had if he wasn't murdered. It doesn't matter whether or not the fetus is a person or was a person. Murder is dependent upon removing the FUTURE of a person. Since a fetus has as much future of personhood as the 30 yr old man (actually 30 likely years moreso), it would be clearly wrong to kill a fetus. Besides, a good motto in life is to never do anything you would come to regret. If you ask a woman who had an abortion what they thought of their decision ten years after the fact, almost all of them regret it. Most have psychological problems develop, and never really get over their guilt. On the other hand, if you find a mother who considered an abortion but didn't go through with it, and ask her if she regrets her decision NOT to have an abortion ten years later after the child has aready grown up a little, I guarentee no matter what her economic status was that she will pick up some kind of shiv and chase you out of the area for asking such a stupid question. But overall, abortion is a crappy solution to socio-economic problems. Its very similar to idiots who thought the poor should live in ghettos next to swamps so that disease would kill them off. If we have socio-economic problems, we should solve those problems rather than resort to indirectly killing the poor. If a family can't support the child, we should ask ourselves WHY that family can't support a child and solve THAT problem.
SeVeR Posted October 24, 2005 Report Posted October 24, 2005 If a woman wants to have an abortion then she isn't committed to bringing up and caring for her child. If the child isn't wanted then its not going to be loved and it'll have all kinds of problems later in life. A fetus is no more aware of what is happening than the germs in your kitchen; it's considerably less aware than animals sent to slaughterhouses. As for its "future"... it wouldn't have had a future if not for the woman making the decision so until it has the ability to show a willingness to live she can decide whatever she wants to do with it. If we have socio-economic problems, we should solve those problems rather than resort to indirectly killing the poor. Easier said than done. Do you think we're not trying to solve these problems now? There is no way in which the entire population of the western world will ever be perfect by whatever definition of perfect you have. There will always be these kinds of problems as long as stupidity is rampant among our spieces; wasn't it Einstein who said stupidity is infinite... and that he was even more sure of that than an infinite universe? Anyway i'm sure plenty of rich people go for abortions aswell. Doesn't it cost money to have an abortion? Are you sure every "poor" person could afford it?
»SOS Posted October 24, 2005 Report Posted October 24, 2005 I simply support abortion since it has practical uses. Why ruin somebody's life with an unwanted baby? Existing lives are worth more than new potential lives to me. I do not consider babies living humans during the first stages of development (they're just extra organs in my reasoning), so they have no inherent right to live in my eyes.
LearJett+ Posted October 24, 2005 Report Posted October 24, 2005 Ail, were you serious about making her marry the rapist lol ? Rape victims account for less than 1% of all abortions anyhow - plus you can be pro-choice except for extreme conditions (such as the aforementioned.) I call myself pro-life... but as soon as my girlfriend was late 2 weeks, I began changing my mind. When it turned out to be nothing, I was a die hard pro-lifer again. I guess I'm a fair-weather fan.
MonteZuma Posted October 25, 2005 Report Posted October 25, 2005 We have fingerprints. We have DNA. We have huge national databases. We should track down the bum who got her pregnant and make him come back and marry her, or atleast pay child support.Is he a bum? Some people get dealt a really bad hand and nobody teaches them how to play it. Shotgun weddings at first glance may not appear to be a good option, but its what's best for the child.Not always. Sometimes kids are better off without their father in the picture (and/or the mother too!) You think the best thing is for two drugged up delinquents to raise a child? I know its diffcult, but there are still plenty of jobs in the country that can support the couple enough to raise a family.Yeah. But some people don't have the life skills to get or hold down a job. For us in the United States, if we can put a man on the moon, we certainly have the resources and know-how to support a few babiesUnfortunately raising kids requires emotional resources, engineering solutions don't work. ...heck in 20 years those babies would probably give something back to the country anyways, so supporting those babies would actually make us stronger. Thus it comes down to whether or not we want to do the extra work of supporting unwanted children, or if we want to take the easy way out and abort them.Actually they probably won't. Children that grow up in troubled families often have trouble becoming successful, contributing members of society. If we need social reform, we should do social reform. We shouldn't just sacrifice lives out of unwillingness the commit to solving the tough problems.I agree 100% that social issues should be given top priority. I think you've made too many !@#$%^&*umptions about women's views after an abortion or having kids. I think many women question whether their decision to have kids was the right one, and many women whove had abortions also question there decision. But I suspect that most women DO NOT regret having gone through their abortion. But overall, abortion is a crappy solution to socio-economic problems.I agree, because it isn't a solution at all, but that isn't to say it doesn't have a place in our society. If a family can't support the child, we should ask ourselves WHY that family can't support a child and solve THAT problem.I agree 100% Be careful...you might end up being labelled a bleeding-heart liberal! One thing about this discussion though is that many of the women having abortions are affluent, middle-class white women who have made a lifestyle choice. This isn't just about the poor.
»i88gerbils Posted October 25, 2005 Report Posted October 25, 2005 It's a matter of being selfish. Though I think you could probably put the "satanist" spin on it. Below is a paraphrase of someone else's philosophical literature: Life is precious. We all understand this. It is wrong to take a human life. Let's just make that a definition for now. ex1: Let's say you get drugged. When you wake up you find yourself attached to a man, a famous man. There are nurses around you. They have grave news. You will die soon, but if they detach you from the man, then he will die. What is the correct choice? Self-sacrifice because life is precious & being held responsible for someone else's death is "murder"? ex2: What if it was just an ordinary person? ex3: OK. Now if just being attached to man would save his life & your life is in no jeopardy would you still live in the same bed for 9 months to let him live? ex4: Even if they drugged you, attached you against your will, and gave you no choice? The righteous thing to do is to always save life. But is it not right to look out for yourself? 9 months is a fairly long time. It may ruin a career or a dream. Do we have the right to be selfish? There is no correct answer that applies to each and every case. Abortion should not be completely free as walking on the street. Instead of denying abortion we need to prevent unwanted pregnancies from occuring by preventing rape, encouraging contraceptives such as condoms (for those in a sexual lifestyle), and to offer therapy for those people who seem to always get pregnant every 6 months.
Paine Posted October 25, 2005 Report Posted October 25, 2005 We have fingerprints. We have DNA. We have huge national databases. We should track down the bum who got her pregnant and make him come back and marry her, or atleast pay child support. Shotgun weddings at first glance may not appear to be a good option, but its what's best for the child. I know its diffcult, but there are still plenty of jobs in the country that can support the couple enough to raise a family. So you'd rather destroy 3 lives completely than end one?
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