Guns

[Silk]

About the statistics too, i can see why people would say just legalize concealed weapons in DC if it works somewhere else. But look at all those crimes, how many of them require guns?

 

Violent Crimes-Yes

 

Property Crimes-No

 

Murder-Yes

 

Forcible Rape-Yes

 

Robbery-Yes

 

Aggravated assault-No

 

Burglary-No

 

Larceny Theft-No

 

Motor Vehicle Theft-No

 

Arson-No

 

But there is alot of yes's and no's but fo you need a firearm for a violent crime, murder, robbery and rape? Any weapon can be used for those, a club. There needs to be statistics for what weapons were used at those crimes.

[MillenniumMan]

About the statistics too, i can see why people would say just legalize concealed weapons in DC if it works somewhere else. But look at all those crimes, how many of them require guns?  

 

Violent Crimes-Yes

 

Property Crimes-No

 

Murder-Yes

 

Forcible Rape-Yes

 

Robbery-Yes

 

Aggravated assault-No

 

Burglary-No

 

Larceny Theft-No

 

Motor Vehicle Theft-No

 

Arson-No

 

But there is alot of yes's and no's but fo you need a firearm for a violent crime, murder, robbery and rape? Any weapon can be used for those, a club. There needs to be statistics for what weapons were used at those crimes.

 

Violent Crimes-Yes

And no. Violence and guns don't always go hand in hand, after all, did cain need a gun to waste able? did lizzie borden need a shotgun to wax her parents? Did OJ Simpson need a 9mm to kill his ex and her new BF? It's all a matter of capabilities.

 

Property Crimes-No

This is a given, you don't need a gun to bash in a mailbox or smash a window or slash a tire.

 

Murder-Yes

Again, not nessecary to have a gun to kill someone. It can still be accomplished by other means.

 

Forcible Rape-Yes

Roofies and the like have made this a less violent but still no less horrible crime. And yet again, a gun is not needed to commit this kind of act. I remember a case a few years ago where this guy would hide under parked cars waiting for the female occupants he was stalking to get back to the car from shopping. He would then slash their ankles which would immediatley immobilize them and he would have his way with them (obviously after taking them to a secure undisclosed location which he set up ahead of time.

 

Robbery-Yes

Oh god, not another one... Again, not needed to commit this crime, it make it easier, but if the victim is unarmed then all that's needed is a little intimidation and sometimes a knife. You can knock an old person over, beat the -*BAD WORD*- out of them and take their wallet/purse and it would have the same effect. This is usualy a crime of oppurtunity, depending on the situation.

 

Aggravated assault-No

This is a given.

 

Burglary-No

A gun is very helpful if you face an irrate homeowner with a baseball bat or a kitchen knife.

 

Larceny Theft-No

I prefer the ENRON model myself. Again, a given.

 

Motor Vehicle Theft-No

In most cases you're correct. Only brazen induviduals would swipe a car with the owner inside it and that's one opportunity for such a !@#$%^&*head to use a gun. Carjackers who do this usualy wait until the vehicle is stuck in traffic, until the light changes at an intersection or if they're in a parking garage. The advantage of these methods is that there is less damage done to the vehicle and if there is an alarm the remote is closeby. Most times however it's a matter of using a coathanger or a doorwedge and flattened aluminum bar at the top of the door, then getting into the car, pulling the fuse that the alarm is attached to (usualy the domelight or entertainment center fuse).

 

Arson-No

I've never heared of an arson case where a gun was needed or used by the arsonist. This is always a crime of opportunity that most of the time takes place at night when noone is around to witness it.

 

OK, now that I've written a criminal how-to pamplet, let's see how some of these folks would fair against some of these situations.

[Silk]

When i wrote that list of yes and no i was pointing out what crimes could be used with a gun and not saying you have to have a gun to commit those crimes. I was pointing out that those statistics you displayed Millennium Man, alot of them do not need a firearm to commit. You only displayed crime rate and not if guns were used in those crimes.

[MillenniumMan]

When i wrote that list of yes and no i was pointing out what crimes could be used with a gun and not saying you have to have a gun to commit those crimes. I was pointing out that those statistics you displayed Millennium Man, alot of them do not need a firearm to commit.  You only displayed crime rate and not if guns were used in those crimes.

 

I realize that, but I wanted to go more in-depth into each situation.

 

I've gone through this -*BAD WORD*-ed database, and I can only get highlights on some and indepths on landmark cases. The less extreme cases only show stats The college shouldn't be buying three licenses for this crap...

[Silk]

Ya i was goign to go in depth as well but didnt feel like typing and ya im sure itll take a long time to find any kind of graph for a specific city on which weapons were used etc.

[madhaha]

If you don't have statistics don't use statistics

 

Amusingly enough a man managed to rob 2 banks armed with a concealed cu-*BAD WORD*-ber. No idea what you'd need a gun for if you could pull that off

 

Running around robbing banks

all wacked off of Scooby Snacks!

[MillenniumMan]

If you don't have statistics don't use statistics

 

Amusingly enough a man managed to rob 2 banks armed with a concealed cu-*BAD WORD*-ber. No idea what you'd need a gun for if you could pull that off

 

Running around robbing banks  

all wacked off of Scooby Snacks!

 

Because most people in this day and age are stupid fearful -*BAD WORD*-ers, that's what happens when you let others do for you what you've forgotten to do for yourselves.

[Silk]

Because most people in this day and age are stupid fearful -*BAD WORD*-ers, that's what happens when you let others do for you what you've forgotten to do for yourselves.

 

Do what? Take matters into your own hands?

[madhaha]

*has no idea what you 2 are talking about*

[MillenniumMan]

Because most people in this day and age are stupid fearful -*BAD WORD*-ers, that's what happens when you let others do for you what you've forgotten to do for yourselves.

 

Do what? Take matters into your own hands?

 

Protect yourself and think.

 

Nintey percent of the time it's just fear and intimidation that's used to rob a bank or someone on the street if the "weapon" is concealed. If someone's going to rob a bank, and doesn't show you the gun, just makes a bulge in their jacket, chances are good that it might just be their finger. If you're going to rob a bank with a real weapon you're gonna flash it because you know you can get away with it.

[madhaha]

People have used BB guns and flashed imitation firearms. This has nothing to do with the issue of gun ownership and the status of.

[Dark Nexus]

It would all be very nice if we could use our firearms resoponsibly, but we can't, the cause....society. What we should do is bring back public beatings and hangings.

 

If there was the threat of having a hand amputated, would you really steal that new watch you want?

 

If there was the threat of takeing 20 lashes from a whip, would you really run that red light?

 

Then again, the people may revolt and say this is to harsh, but my belief is we let criminals off to easily. The state wastes to much money to keep them away from society for them to go right back to be a scab on societies bum. If we had harsher crimes, people might start thinking before they start doing.

[Bacchus]

Why would you need a gun anyway? I live in a country where no one apart from law enforcement have a gun...

 

What's the amendment number already? anyway, i'm against it...

[Yupa]

pffft, screw that...the LAST thing I want an officer of law enforcement to have is a lethal weapon

 

those idiots shoot to kill

[MillenniumMan]

Madhaha: Yes, it's indoctrinated fear. That can be just as powerful as a gun.

 

Dark Nexus: You just made a new friend

 

Bacchus: And what country is this? 1939 Germany? And it's the second amendment. How about that first amendment.... yeah lets get rid of that too, after all it's just an annoying little thing when people say something that pisses them off. We have to curb that also... Seig heil you pig!

 

Akai: Yes, unfortunatley there are some LEOs out there who use their guns as hunting licenses. They're the kind of people who shouldn't be trusted with the use of a knife and fork at lunchtime, let alone something that can do bodily harm or the saftey of the people they swore to protect. But there are many good LEOs out there that use common sense and are good folks.

[madhaha]

If you can have a gun for recreation and only some law enforcement officers (the ones that work in particularly violent areas) bear firearms then WTF do you still need other firearms? It sounds like South Park:

 

"What do you need this gun for? Hunting, self-defence or other?"

 

"Erm..... Other."

 

Guns for self-defence are fairly useless as you can see in above posts so why Else would you want guns?

 

The American cons!@#$%^&*ution was based on the idea that a revolution was healthy for the continual good of the country as a rather messy way of practising democrasy, hence the right to bear arms. Whether you agree with this or not is a whole new thread in its own right but it doesn't really help reduce guncrime. If MilleniumMan were to base his argument on keeping firearms in case they hate thier government then he would have a valid argument, if a contentious one. As it stands his arguments don't make an awful lot of sense.

[Bacchus]

and what country is this? 1939 Germany? And it's the second amendment. How about that first amendment.... yeah lets get rid of that too, after all it's just an annoying little thing when people say something that pisses them off. We have to curb that also... Seig heil you pig!

 

wow, go ez on me man! i live in Canada. As it is, firearms are regulated in almost all occidental country apart from US. calm down, there's isn't evil nmies and terrorists on those forums. oh by the way: get a life.

 

I think the question isn't if one could have a gun for self-defense but why do you feel that you need to defend yourself? do you live in such a dangerous neiborghood that you'll feel better protected by having a gun? wow, freakin' far west heh partner! why don' ye go do they cow?

[MillenniumMan]

and what country is this? 1939 Germany? And it's the second amendment. How about that first amendment.... yeah lets get rid of that too, after all it's just an annoying little thing when people say something that pisses them off. We have to curb that also... Seig heil you pig!

 

wow, go ez on me man! i live in Canada. As it is, firearms are regulated in almost all occidental country apart from US. calm down, there's isn't evil nmies and terrorists on those forums. oh by the way: get a life.

 

I think the question isn't if one could have a gun for self-defense but why do you feel that you need to defend yourself? do you live in such a dangerous neiborghood that you'll feel better protected by having a gun? wow, freakin' far west heh partner! why don' ye go do they cow?

 

And yet another reason to close off the northern border...

The only saving grace you guys have is listed in the thread that started this thread, the one about the AOC. Oh, and low cost drugs and your red light areas. And yes, I do have a life, so lick my stick beotch!

 

Mad, a revolt isn't the only reason but it may well come to that someday. But again you haven't been paying attention to both threads. I had used my PPK for defense, I also live in a great area (Aberdeen Proving Grounds) even still, there may be another time when I'd have to use my gun in such a fashion again. Since I do alot of traveling into Baltimore city, which you may remember has had the highest murder rates in recent years (BTW, Joe Curran attorney general tried to do a statewide ban on ownership of handguns, but realized that would be suicide realisticly and politicaly) so chances are I may be required to brandish it or dare the need arise, fire it at someone who under other cir-*BAD WORD*-stances may be thought of as a human being.

 

Mind you, most of the people in the downtown area who own guns are thugs and filthy -*BAD WORD*-s who make the lives of the good people a living -*BAD WORD*-, and if the good guys would start arming themselves there really would be a signifigant drop in crime involving armed robbery, rape and murder simply because these monsters would be fearful of getting capped for something as insignifigant as $50!

[Bacchus]

And yet another reason to close off the northern border...

The only saving grace you guys have is listed in the thread that started this thread, the one about the AOC. Oh, and low cost drugs and your red light areas.

hhaha, and ì'm the one being refered to as a nazi! laff, you're a -*BAD WORD*-ing joke man

Anyway, you're point being?

 

 

And yes, I do have a life, so lick my stick beotch!

Whatever floats your boats buddy. No wonder you like our red lights, our ASSS are cheaper, heh?

 

All in all, and statistically speaking, canadian crime rate is still WAY under yours...and firearms are regulated and most are prohibited.

 

yea, i'm a Michael Moore fan, and Bush is a moronic loose cannon.

[MillenniumMan]

And yet another reason to close off the northern border...

The only saving grace you guys have is listed in the thread that started this thread, the one about the AOC. Oh, and low cost drugs and your red light areas.

 

hhaha, and ì'm the one being refered to as a nazi! laff, you're a -*BAD WORD*-ing joke man

Anyway, you're point being?

 

 

And yes, I do have a life, so lick my stick beotch!

Whatever floats your boats buddy. No wonder you like our red lights, our ASSS are cheaper, heh?

 

All in all, and statistically speaking, canadian crime rate is still WAY under yours...and firearms are regulated and most are prohibited.

 

yea, i'm a Michael Moore fan, and Bush is a moronic loose cannon.

 

Glad to see you admit to being a nazi. That's something I've noticed. You don't have alot of black people in your country, alot are shipped in from here. Why is that? Is it that NAFTA thing? I think that's the case, it's the only way we could do real business with you people, by making sure you were more culturaly flavored. And NO! Having French lineage doesn't count since being french is still very uncultured. Now retreat before I chase you with soap and water...

 

And yes your ASSS are cheap, but I wouldn't use them if you paid me to pay them. It's like the old saying goes, you want high quality, gotta pay high price...

 

And I don't think of Bush as being moronic, but yes, a loose cannon. He's still an everyday guy.

[Bacchus]

ok, we've now succeeded in turning this quite lively thread in a flame war.

 

1) where on earth did i mentioned being a nazi? you're the one doing cultural bashing right now.

[edit] 1a) do your homework mate, we have almost the same ethnic proportion as you...heck, Toronto's chinese quarter is one of the biggest in both americas. Vancouver is half asian, etc.

2) what about being french? At least they don't go all around whining about being victims or playing World Police like some re-*BAD WORD*-ed bully.

3)being french is uncultured? based on what? this argument is so devoid of meaning and so full of xenophobiac nonsense...i'd say you're the one being "uncultured"...what kind of word is that anyway? is there something like "unculture" in the english vocabulary?

4)oh, you can pay for whatever pleasure you want..btw, did you notice that US dollar and Canadian dollar aren't the same currency? off course our ASSS are cheaper to you...US cash is worth more! Anyway, you're sex life isn't in my list of interests. plz, spare me this chapter of your life.

5)What's NATFA? What about business? our countries economy are so merged with each other that splitting would hurt US and Canada a good lot more than say...about anything you might or could figure judging by your more than evident "unculture".

6)at least we're both agreeing on the fact that Bush is a loose cannon...some people get married on less, so i guess we might have a chance at some peace.

7) plz notice that my first post was only about how i felt about guns. Why did you jumped on me in the first place?

 

Back on track:

 

The causes for needing self-protection (what kind of a syntax is that, well...sue me if i sux at syntax) are imo originating from social causes; poverty, unemployement, education, etc. Causes from which the usual governments are backing out from. The more wild the capitalism, the split the social classes...and then lower classes people become envious and angry, etc. violence, bla bla bla...you all know the drill i'm pretty sure.

 

my point is that a governement should back community works and social causes. Salary should be sufficient to avoid law enforcement or low level clerk corruption. Health should be universal, education should be available to all at least on a technical level. Fiscal laws should reflect the social reality...thus big company shoudl pay more then say, a poor family. etc.

Crime rate would be lowered, guns would become somewhat obsolete, and everyone would be less stressed out.

 

don't tell me it's utopia, it's been tested and mother approved in more than one country.

[MillenniumMan]

ok, we've now succeeded in turning this quite lively thread in a flame war.

 

1) where on earth did i mentioned being a nazi? you're the one doing cultural bashing right now.

[edit]1a) do your homework mate, we have almost the same ethnic proportion as you...heck, Toronto's chinese quarter is one of the biggest in both americas.  Vancouver is half asian, etc.

2) what about being french? At least they don't go all around whining about being victims or playing World Police like some re-*BAD WORD*-ed bully.

3)being french is uncultured?  based on what? this argument is so devoid of meaning and so full of xenophobiac nonsense...i'd say you're the one being "uncultured"...what kind of word is that anyway?  is there something like "unculture" in the english vocabulary?

4)oh, you can pay for whatever pleasure you want..btw, did you notice that  US dollar and Canadian dollar aren't the same currency? off course our ASSS are cheaper to you...US cash is worth more! Anyway, you're sex life isn't in my list of interests.  plz, spare me this chapter of your life.

5)What's NATFA? What about business?  our countries economy are so merged with each other that splitting would hurt US and Canada a good lot more than say...about anything you might or could figure judging by your more than evident "unculture".

6)at least we're both agreeing on the fact that Bush is a loose cannon...some people get married on less, so i guess we might have a chance at some peace.

7) plz notice that my first post was only about how i felt about guns.  Why did you jumped on me in the first place?

 

Back on track:

 

The causes for needing self-protection (what kind of a syntax is that, well...sue me if i sux at syntax) are imo originating from social causes; poverty, unemployement, education, etc.  Causes from which the usual governments are backing out from.  The more wild the capitalism, the split the social classes...and then lower classes people become envious and angry, etc.  violence, bla bla bla...you all know the drill i'm pretty sure.

 

my point is that a governement should back community works and social causes.  Salary should be sufficient to avoid law enforcement or low level clerk corruption.  Health should be universal, education should be available to all at least on a technical level.  Fiscal laws should reflect the social reality...thus big company shoudl pay more then say, a poor family.  etc.

Crime rate would be lowered, guns would become somewhat obsolete, and everyone would be less stressed out.

 

don't tell me it's utopia, it's been tested and mother approved in more than one country.

 

1: Where you said "And your point being"

 

2: No they just whine when things don't go their way and surrender at the first sign of trouble.

 

3: Of course, we're so xenophobic we have open borders and let everyone into our country... What a horses -*BAD WORD*-. But let me get back to the statement. They are in fact the most snobbish people I've ever had the misfortune to encounter. Give me a brit or a korean any day of the week. They at least have more respect and a true culture, and not one that's borrowed from -*BAD WORD*--slinging chimpanzees.

3-A: Uncultured - Compound Verb; Without culture. Look it up.

 

4: Of course American money is worth more, our economy is far superior to not just canadas, but many others on the planet, including the failing euro.

4-A: I can pay for almost any pleasure, the rest might get me arrested.

4-B: Since I get mine for free, I've never had to pay for it.

 

5: NAFTA, The North American Free Trade Agreement. God boy, learn some recent history, it was passed almost ten years ago.

 

6: Huh huh... he want's me

 

7: A matter of principle. Point is, I still believe that people should do whatever and own whatever they want just so long as it doesn't infringe on the lives of others. The fact that elites have told us what we can and can't own/do/say in recent years has me more than a little pissed off.

 

If I had the cash, I'd run for public office in a second and start tearing down all the -*BAD WORD*- that's been built up since the weimar republic treaty from WW1. Admittedly that was a german problem but it spread like wildfire til it -*BAD WORD*-ed this country over royaly.

 

On track:

Does the phrase Menendez Brothers mean anything to you? How about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold? OJ Simpson? No??? They're far from impoverished, unemployed or uneducated.

 

Admittedly, those who bust their !@#$%^&*es doing 9-5 or worse jobs get -*BAD WORD*- on constantly and need improved pay. But the ones I'm talking about just refuse to work to improve their lives regardless of income or background. There are those that choose to -*BAD WORD*- up their lives through inaction or violent action. Do you think they should be made to feel comfortable or be helped? I say build a big rocket, stuff the little -*BAD WORD*-ers in there tighter than sardines and shoot it into the sun!

 

Ok, that's technicaly infesable, but you get the point.

[Aileron]

*some kind of arguement supporting guns just as soon as everyone gets back on topic.*

[Silk]

Where did America get all of its culture....

[Guest Decimator | Alpha]

*some kind of arguement supporting guns just as soon as everyone gets back on topic.*

 

Laws will always only be able to prevent crime as long as the majority of the population is willing to stick to them. With all the "Discrimation" laws and bs like that there's no way in -*BAD WORD*- you'd be able to stop a certain type of person owning a gun.

 

Example:

Someone with a Unibrow goes into a shop and tries to buy a gun the !@#$%^&*isitant says "No you're not allowed you look like a criminal". They'd get sued to -*BAD WORD*-.

 

Besides if someone really wanted gun they could simply ask a "law abiding", "normal looking" citizen to buy it for them.

 

And Silk America got it's culture from every country that's ever settled there.