Political Bans in Metal Gear

[MonteZuma]

I didn't say Hitler was a liberal...I said he was a negativeliberal...a completely different group that is extinct in any normal time.  The point is that he took every liberal ideal and does the opposite, and that doing the opposite of every liberal ideal doesn't equal conservativism.

He was a fascist. A right-wing authoritarian. There is no need for you to make up your own plolitical doctrine, because it already has a name.

 

As for Iraq.......I just wanted to force Monte to post.

The Nazi/negativeliberal stuff was enough to get me going anyway...

 

Neither of us is to be beleived when we post, our words are carefully sculpted to push our respective agendas.

Speak for yourself I believe what I say and would like to be believed.

 

For now, you should watch what Monte does.  When it was just you posting, he stayed out of it so that he could distance himself from you.  He only posted when I used the opportunity to attack the left, in an effort to remind me that he is still here.

Well. Spins views are radical. I think mine are moderate. I am sympathetic to many liberal/left views and when I see an opportunity to defend 'the cause', I will chime in. The good thing about spin is that he is mixing things up. Things were a little too quiet here for a while.

[»SD>Big]

The problem is though spin that most of us hate talking politics in the game.  I for one would rather not have such distractions as I play, and know that good political discussions take time that the real time chat doesn't give you.  We don't care that we are not allowed to talk politics for months on end in Metal Gear's pub chat.  There are plenty of alternative venues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

i cannot STAND it when people complain in pub about lag, about dying etc... but everyone does it, so staff takes no action on that cause you'd have to ban everyone.

 

just because politics aren't a popular subject in a zone, doesn't mean it should be treated any differently.

 

it's easy to ban someone when he's the only one doing it (i.e. talking politics) but a lot harder when its the whole zone doing it (i.e. complaining about lag).

 

 

unless spin was disrupting the game and/or spamming, *I* dont think he should be banned....

 

but then again, i dont run the server or the zone

[MonteZuma]

Spin: The mock chat demonstrates your issue quite nicely. Your comments under point one are noted. I generally agree... My view is just a little less extreme.

 

You know....Some of the best public chats I've ever had in subspace have been about politics or about other non-ss issues (like 'my country is better than yours'....or yo momma jokes....talk about computers...or d & ms about whatever, etc etc etc). It is enjoyable to sit in spec and have a live chat with ss buddies and foes. It is easy to ?ignore people or just concentrate on playing the game. I can't speak for mg because I haven't played there and didn't see what happened, but in my view, I think being too heavy handed about this kinda stuff is not good.

[Paine]

I think (read "know") spin (read "!@#$%^&*") should be banned (read "executed") for being re!@#$%^&*ed.

[Bak]

The muslim world generally lacks a good example of a properly functioning democracy.

So how would you involve Iraq in the muslim world? Iraq was the only country in the middle east without a theocratic government. If we want to give the muslim world a good example of a properly functioning democracy, how about we invade a muslim-run country next time?

 

As for hackysack's responce to my change-of-mind at!@#$%^&*ude:

#1- TT has OWNERSHIP of his OWN server. He can do whatever he wants with it. He's the one who invests HIS money into it. This is a free internet game we're talking about here. Where players don’t have to pay 1 cent if they don’t want to. Yet you're trying to tell him how to run it. HAH! That’s like telling an owner of a sports team he cant fire one of his players. He can do whatever he wants!

#2- As far of freedom of speech goes, people try to use that stretch that term into justifying what they did. Can you walk up to a police officer and call him a pig to his face and not expect anything to happen? Nope, didn’t think so. Did you know that you can be arrested for threatening to kill the president? Its true. Look at our school systems. What happens if you use vulgar language? You're disciplined. The fact is there are rules that limit your freedom of speech in certain places and times

 

#1 Responce: In the 1960's many business owners had OWNERSHIP of their OWN business, which didn't allow black people to enter and use their services. It was only THEIR money that went to the business. Even free services (parallelling to the free server) like water fountains were limited by race. If the government didn't force integration, segragation would still be around today. So although you may own something entirely, when you're providing a public service (such as a public server), you may be controlled by the government.

 

#2 Responce: Using one injustice to justify another is not a valid argument. For example, imagine we were in nazi germany, shortly after Jews were forbidden from serving in the armed forces. Someone might want to ban Jews from holding high-education jobs like doctors or professors. Now someone brings up that we shouldn't impede on the rights of the Jews, but the counterargument is that we have already done so in the past, so clearly we can invade in the rights of the Jews. It's similar to the old saying, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

 

although your other two examples serve your purpose, the "threatening to kill the president" example does not. The reason you go to jail is because you're instilling fear in the person you're threatening, impeding on their right to "the pursuit of happiness".

 

There is a problem with parallelling lack of free speech in MG to segragation in the 1960's, you just didn't point it out.

 

----------

 

spin does have some good points, but many others are completely wrong, which makes his whole argument look poor.

Perhaps if someone challanged your views in a area outside Rush Limbaugh's control you would of corrected yourself by now

These ad hominem arguments don't help your points either.

 

For example when Aile says something like

The nazis were different in that they were evil people.

You could just point out that it's easier to look back and simply say they are evil people, without suppling more information. The terrorists believe that america is evil. Calling something evil doesn't really say anything. That would go a lot further than !@#$%^&*ociating Rush with Aile, since he never mentioned anything about rush, or that he was conservative, for that matter.

[»i88gerbils]

My opinion of Metal Gear CTF has decreased for not encouraging the use of the ?ignore feature. Or whatever the restricted word file is called nowadays. That being said, they have every right to ban whoever from their private property, but they should have no complaints about being labeled "censors" & grouped with a large group of people among whom are terrorists, totalitarian dictators, and those who disagree with the Declaration of Independence.

 

I wrote sometime ago the following:

I cannot deny a local zone policy.

 

What I can deny is what is right [ed. correct]. I do not deny the right of a zone operator to make bad decisions. Denying people's basic beliefs is not right [ed. correct]. Denying people's basic beliefs on the basis of defamation' date=' racist actions, etc.. is right [ed. correct']. There is a big difference in correct policy.

[Hackysack]

The problem is though spin that most of us hate talking politics in the game. I for one would rather not have such distractions as I play, and know that good political discussions take time that the real time chat doesn't give you. We don't care that we are not allowed to talk politics for months on end in Metal Gear's pub chat. There are plenty of alternative venues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

i cannot STAND it when people complain in pub about lag, about dying etc... but everyone does it, so staff takes no action on that cause you'd have to ban everyone.

 

just because politics aren't a popular subject in a zone, doesn't mean it should be treated any differently.

 

it's easy to ban someone when he's the only one doing it (i.e. talking politics) but a lot harder when its the whole zone doing it (i.e. complaining about lag).

 

 

unless spin was disrupting the game and/or spamming, *I* dont think he should be banned....

 

but then again, i dont run the server or the zone

Complaining about lag and dying is completely different then arguing politics. In pub the longest people will argue lag and politics will only be a few minutes; while politics can keep going and going and then people start arguing and spamming pub with what they believe. Its completely different. I dont see why you guys are denying the fact that he broke the rules after being warned and got banned as a result. Its a just ban. Get over it!

 

 

Spin: The mock chat demonstrates your issue quite nicely. Your comments under point one are noted. I generally agree... My view is just a little less extreme.

 

You know....Some of the best public chats I've ever had in subspace have been about politics or about other non-ss issues (like 'my country is better than yours'....or yo momma jokes....talk about computers...or d & ms about whatever, etc etc etc). It is enjoyable to sit in spec and have a live chat with ss buddies and foes. It is easy to ?ignore people or just concentrate on playing the game. I can't speak for mg because I haven't played there and didn't see what happened, but in my view, I think being too heavy handed about this kinda stuff is not good.

 

When players argue politics or 'My country is better than yours', it gets not only annoying but it spams pub. If these conversations were in a chat it would be fine. You can say whatever you want in chats, so keep the extra garbage such as the political conversations in one.

 

The muslim world generally lacks a good example of a properly functioning democracy.

So how would you involve Iraq in the muslim world? Iraq was the only country in the middle east without a theocratic government. If we want to give the muslim world a good example of a properly functioning democracy, how about we invade a muslim-run country next time?

 

As for hackysack's responce to my change-of-mind at!@#$%^&*ude:

#1- TT has OWNERSHIP of his OWN server. He can do whatever he wants with it. He's the one who invests HIS money into it. This is a free internet game we're talking about here. Where players don’t have to pay 1 cent if they don’t want to. Yet you're trying to tell him how to run it. HAH! That’s like telling an owner of a sports team he cant fire one of his players. He can do whatever he wants!

#2- As far of freedom of speech goes, people try to use that stretch that term into justifying what they did. Can you walk up to a police officer and call him a pig to his face and not expect anything to happen? Nope, didn’t think so. Did you know that you can be arrested for threatening to kill the president? Its true. Look at our school systems. What happens if you use vulgar language? You're disciplined. The fact is there are rules that limit your freedom of speech in certain places and times

#1 Responce: In the 1960's many business owners had OWNERSHIP of their OWN business, which didn't allow black people to enter and use their services. It was only THEIR money that went to the business. Even free services (parallelling to the free server) like water fountains were limited by race. If the government didn't force integration, segragation would still be around today. So although you may own something entirely, when you're providing a public service (such as a public server), you may be controlled by the government.

 

#2 Responce: Using one injustice to justify another is not a valid argument. For example, imagine we were in nazi germany, shortly after Jews were forbidden from serving in the armed forces. Someone might want to ban Jews from holding high-education jobs like doctors or professors. Now someone brings up that we shouldn't impede on the rights of the Jews, but the counterargument is that we have already done so in the past, so clearly we can invade in the rights of the Jews. It's similar to the old saying, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

 

although your other two examples serve your purpose, the "threatening to kill the president" example does not. The reason you go to jail is because you're instilling fear in the person you're threatening, impeding on their right to "the pursuit of happiness".

 

There is a problem with parallelling lack of free speech in MG to segragation in the 1960's, you just didn't point it out.

I dont even know how you guys are going to try to make the claim that TT can't ban people like he does. Its his property, not yours. He invests his money into it, not you or spin. Its like the stockmarket. Unless you have stocks in a corporation, you dont have any say in what they do. You still didn't try to argue about the sports team ownership. Which is a much better example then the buissness, considering this is a FREE 2D game server we're talking about. You play for free while the owner pays money for it. Quit !@#$%^&*ing about what he does with the zone when you're not the one paying to keep it going in the first place. Idiots....

 

Now to the freedom of speech issue again. You are a complete moron to even try to keep arguing this still. MG has certain certain rules to maintain a peaceful place for players to come and play. One of those being that political talk has no place in public chat. There is nothing that says that you can't talk politics in chat, it's actually suggested. The fact is like I've said over and over again. Spin ignored his warnings, and continued to break the rules. This isn't like a huge revolt against MGs rule. Its just a little kid trying to !@#$%^&* the most he can about him getting banned.

[»i88gerbils]

Read to the last post, it's a bit historical & may give you better context. The point is that this was handled poorly. There are other methods w/o having to ban someone from a zone.

 

"i read the first few posts' date=' and all i have to say is: GAY...[/quote'] ...everyone has the freedom to ?ignore."

[Hackysack]

Read to the last post, it's a bit historical & may give you better context. The point is that this was handled poorly. There are other methods w/o having to ban someone from a zone.

 

"i read the first few posts' date=' and all i have to say is: GAY...[/quote'] ...everyone has the freedom to ?ignore."

Dont try to play the Freedom of Speech or Declaration of Independence card on us. It wont work. Banning a player on continuum has no part in the government. You guys are trying to make it look like TT is a ruthless dictator which is funny, because TT and a ruthless dictator have nothing in common. The fact remains rules are set to maintain peace and order, if one chooses to ignore these rules they are warned, if they continue to do so on a daily basis they get banned. Spins ban is a prime example of this. You may not argee with the rules set in MG, but you have to admit that Spin broke the rules, was warned, continued to do so, and pay the consiquences. Its his fault, no one eles'. TT chooses how long he wants to ban people, for it is HIS zone and server. He pays for it, and chooses what he see's best fit for his zone. If he was to unban Spin, I think its pretty clear by Spins constant insults to TT and others who disagree with him, that he will just continue what he used to do.

[MonteZuma]

When players argue politics or 'My country is better than yours', it gets not only annoying but it spams pub. If these conversations were in a chat it would be fine. You can say whatever you want in chats, so keep the extra garbage such as the political conversations in one.

In your opinion it is garbage. But I don't care about your opinion any more than you care about mine. If you don't like the pub chat, be proactive and turn it off. It isn't like your are gonna miss any vital information that will make or break your gaming experience.

[spin]

http://www.allfloyd.com/images/the_wall/hammer.gif

TestTube's Jackbooted Police State Emerging on the SSC network

 

Thank You Aileron for inviting me into the SSC's free speech zone, I would hate to seen what would of happened to me if I would of posted in TestTube's Metal Gear forum, but judging from how I was treated on TestTube's server to date I think we can all take a guess!

 

Aileron you said, "What if a sports commentator was talking politics in the middle of the Steelers/Patriots game? NFL fans wouldn't want to hear it, they want to hear discussions on the football game."

 

I would like to point out to you that ABC's Monday Night Football already has been !@#$%^&*ociated to right wing politics via their sports announcers, those being Rush Limbaugh and Dennis Miller. In addition, Monday, Sept. 18, 2005 you will have Monday Night Football doing damage control of Bush's Government's mishandling of the hurricane disaster by urging American's to contribute to the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund. The name of the fund is very political in nature, it implys that Bush is a uniter, not a divider, and hay he is trying to help. So actually Aileron football does promote politics. The Right Wing !@#$%^&*ociating itself with sports for promotion of their ideology is very accepted in America today.

 

 

Speaking of sports, Hackysack seems to believe that the proper analogy of TestTube's ownership of Metal Gear and its players is like TestTube owning a sports team. Well Hackysack you can go around all day and claim your alarm clock is a rooster, and you can present your evidence as being that the your "rooster" wakes you up every morning at sunrise, but you would be mistaken.

 

TestTube does NOT own a sports team, rather what he owns is a sports arena, and the SSC network are the roads to that arena, with the Sub Space software being the rules for the game play. The people the visit TestTube's arena are both the fans and players. TestTube owns the arena, while the SSC network owns the roads and billboards promoting Metal Gear. The people that own the Sub Space software are the owners of the game that is played in TestTubes sports arena.

 

TestTube gives the impression that he does not have to answer to anyone, not the people that own the roads to his arena, not the people that invented the game, not the players and fans that show up for the event. Legally TestTube may or may not be correct, but it is the Sub Space community that TestTube's actions betray.

 

As TestTube's cronies have pointed out, they are not concerned with the players; the players have no rights in Metal Gear. The only rule in Metal Gear is the rule of what TestTube wants and his desire to "maintain peace and order" (according to Hackysack). While not legally obligated, other zone/server owners using the SSC roads try to build a community where the players and guest are respected and honor players rights, fair play and freedom of expression is tolerated in every SSC zone except for TestTube's zone.

 

Hackysack, Trained, Paine, Kolar and those that support TestTube's position, you will have to wait until you find that you disagree with TestTube to figure out where you stand with respect to TestTube's server. Perhaps a disagreement is brewing, perhaps TestTube would want you to back off restating over and over that TestTube owns the server and players in his zone have zero rights. Perhaps TestTube would somewhat like to maintain the illusion that players can enjoy his zone as long as they do not violate the norm of the SSC network. Hackysack, keep calling long time players "morons", talk to TestTube and see if he thinks this is wise, then notice who wears the pants in your relationship.

 

Some may wonder if I would continue to talk politics if I was unbanned, well I see no reason why any of us should have to "set at the back of the bus" in Metal Gear. After all, remember when you see that crazy guy holding up the John 3:16 banner on Monday Night Football, remember the owner of that arena doesn't kick him out, even if he legally had the right to do so. Notice also that many others bring banners to a football game, I was one of those that brought a banner to a arena. I got kicked out of TestTube's arena because some fans and players did not like my banner. Meanwhile no one will be kicking out Bush's damage control "banner" on Monday Night's football game.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/do!@#$%^&*entaries/images/fascism_football_lead.jpg

In Metal Gear, the goal is to "maintain peace and order"

 

The real question isn't what I will do when the ban is lifted--- the real question is what will it take for TestTube to change his policys to reflect the norms of the other sport arena owners and the owners of the roads and billboards that help TestTube's zone? What will it take for TestTube to respect American Democracy, even if he is not legally bound to do so?

 

Spin

[Bak]

the Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief fund is by the old president Bush (George H.). They had a big speech about it and it was on TV. Encoraging people to donate to this fund (which, by the way, gives what it receives to other charities like the Red Cross or Salvation Army), is by no means right-wing politics. Asking for donations for a nateral disaster isn't "talking politics". Please get your facts straight before using them to defend your argument.

[spin]

Mr Bak,

I agree with everything you say, except the part that the fund that Monday Night Football will be promoting is not political in nature. I stand by what I said, the message is designed to help Bush's image by default.

 

The Pat Robertson Katrina Relief Fund - Sends a political message.

The Bin Ladin Katrina Relief Fund - Sends a political message.

The Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief Fund - Sends a political message.

 

On the other hand the

Salvation Army's Katrina Relief Fund - Does not send a political message.

 

The Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief Fund - is crisis management for Bush White House officials handling the Hurricane Katrina disaster. The message is... "let us set our differences aside, let the mistakes of Bush's actions go down the memory hole, let us get behind our President and help out".. Bush has done everything he can to divide this nation. The Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief Fund is named the way it is to reverse this damage The tidal wave fund Bush Sr. and Mr Clinton represented was largely for the same reason. I am SURE if you checked out why ABC chose this fund, you would see what I am talking about.

 

I hope you agree more with the rest of my points

Spin

[Bak]

why did ABC chose this fund (sources, not speculation please)?

[Kolar]

Thank You Aileron for inviting me into the SSC's free speech zone, I would hate to seen what would of happened to me if I would of posted in TestTube's Metal Gear forum, but judging from how I was treated on TestTube's server to date I think we can all take a guess!

 

Aileron you said, "What if a sports commentator was talking politics in the middle of the Steelers/Patriots game? NFL fans wouldn't want to hear it, they want to hear discussions on the football game."

 

I would like to point out to you that ABC's Monday Night Football already has been !@#$%^&*ociated to right wing politics via their sports announcers, those being Rush Limbaugh and Dennis Miller. In addition, Monday, Sept. 18, 2005 you will have Monday Night Football doing damage control of Bush's Government's mishandling of the hurricane disaster by urging American's to contribute to the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund. The name of the fund is very political in nature, it implys that Bush is a uniter, not a divider, and hay he is trying to help. So actually Aileron football does promote politics. The Right Wing !@#$%^&*ociating itself with sports for promotion of their ideology is very accepted in America today.

 

 

Speaking of sports, Hackysack seems to believe that the proper analogy of TestTube's ownership of Metal Gear and its players is like TestTube owning a sports team. Well Hackysack you can go around all day and claim your alarm clock is a rooster, and you can present your evidence as being that the your "rooster" wakes you up every morning at sunrise, but you would be mistaken.

 

TestTube does NOT own a sports team, rather what he owns is a sports arena, and the SSC network are the roads to that arena, with the Sub Space software being the rules for the game play. The people the visit TestTube's arena are both the fans and players. TestTube owns the arena, while the SSC network owns the roads and billboards promoting Metal Gear. The people that own the Sub Space software are the owners of the game that is played in TestTubes sports arena.

 

TestTube gives the impression that he does not have to answer to anyone, not the people that own the roads to his arena, not the people that invented the game, not the players and fans that show up for the event. Legally TestTube may or may not be correct, but it is the Sub Space community that TestTube's actions betray.

 

As TestTube's cronies have pointed out, they are not concerned with the players; the players have no rights in Metal Gear. The only rule in Metal Gear is the rule of what TestTube wants and his desire to "maintain peace and order" (according to Hackysack). While not legally obligated, other zone/server owners using the SSC roads try to build a community where the players and guest are respected and honor players rights, fair play and freedom of expression is tolerated in every SSC zone except for TestTube's zone.

 

Hackysack, Trained, Paine, Kolar and those that support TestTube's position, you will have to wait until you find that you disagree with TestTube to figure out where you stand with respect to TestTube's server. Perhaps a disagreement is brewing, perhaps TestTube would want you to back off restating over and over that TestTube owns the server and players in his zone have zero rights. Perhaps TestTube would somewhat like to maintain the illusion that players can enjoy his zone as long as they do not violate the norm of the SSC network. Hackysack, keep calling long time players "morons", talk to TestTube and see if he thinks this is wise, then notice who wears the pants in your relationship.

 

Some may wonder if I would continue to talk politics if I was unbanned, well I see no reason why any of us should have to "set at the back of the bus" in Metal Gear. After all, remember when you see that crazy guy holding up the John 3:16 banner on Monday Night Football, remember the owner of that arena doesn't kick him out, even if he legally had the right to do so. Notice also that many others bring banners to a football game, I was one of those that brought a banner to a arena. I got kicked out of TestTube's arena because some fans and players did not like my banner. Meanwhile no one will be kicking out Bush's damage control "banner" on Monday Night's football game.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/do!@#$%^&*entaries/images/fascism_football_lead.jpg

In Metal Gear, the goal is to "maintain peace and order"

 

The real question isn't what I will do when the ban is lifted--- the real question is what will it take for TestTube to change his policys to reflect the norms of the other sport arena owners and the owners of the roads and billboards that help TestTube's zone? What will it take for TestTube to respect American Democracy, even if he is not legally bound to do so?

 

Spin

 

For the last freaking time, what Testtube does with his Zone and with his BanG and biller connections to his zone is up to him. This is not some !@#$%^&*ing joke, he pays a lot of money out of his own pocket for you and everyone for nothing to play MG, could you not at least acknowledge and respect that? What SSC does with you is no ones concern, if anyone of the SSC members actually saw what you do in game they'd agree, anyone would. No one is there to make sure you get treated fairly.

 

 

the reason no one cares about you getting a network or zone ban is that you give nothing to the zones, nothing to the comunity and you only go futher by annoying Testtube and others with ?messages and private messages. People who don't want to see politics, or your verision of it in SS and on here are NOT Nazis, facists or anti-American. Start giving people a that tiny spec of respect you stupid !@#$%^&*. SSC members and zone owners are not bound by any legal obligations like you said. America is not a democracy, it's a republic. It is also not the end all be all of poliitcal systems and there is no Good (democacy) Vs. Evil (anything you deem). There's no point in making those connections.

[»i88gerbils]

No, the reason why nobody gives a network ban is that it doesn't fit the sentence. Get it correct please. After a couple of years of !@#$%^&*ing we finally did get a sort of guideline for ssc netbans.

 

If TestTube would like to file a Har!@#$%^&*ment claim with the rest of the SSC, then I'm sure they'd netban Spin in 10 seconds. Also, if he evaded ?ignore by changing nicks. But it doesn't seem like har!@#$%^&*ment if he's a bit justified in making these claims.

 

However, one conclusion I can come up with is that the players from Metal Gear CTF (including banned players) are fairly incompetent at reading comprehension.

[Kolar]

No, the reason why nobody gives a network ban is that it doesn't fit the sentence. Get it correct please. After a couple of years of !@#$%^&*ing we finally did get a sort of guideline for ssc netbans.

 

If TestTube would like to file a Har!@#$%^&*ment claim with the rest of the SSC, then I'm sure they'd netban Spin in 10 seconds. Also, if he evaded ?ignore by changing nicks. But it doesn't seem like har!@#$%^&*ment if he's a bit justified in making these claims.

 

However, one conclusion I can come up with is that the players from Metal Gear CTF (including banned players) are fairly incompetent at reading comprehension.

 

I said no one cares if he were banned, not the reason why he would be given a network or zone ban. If he is net banned it will be for harr!@#$%^&*ment and for spamming. He was told for 4 months to stop spamming political macros in public. If he wanted a political discussion that's fine but he never responds to people, he never talks about anything political, only spams some "oh look what Bush did :someUselessAnnoyingLink:, GOOD going bushy!" macro to piss people off in a public then leaves to another one.

 

4 months of that, getting private messages and ?msgs sent to his staffers and his public being annoyed to !@#$%^&* what else was he to do? continue warning him for another year? I think it was perfectly reasonable for his Zone Ban and I ask you now, why not an SSC ban? We ban cheaters on the network so other zones dont have to deal with them, why not excessively annoying arrogant kids like Spinsanity, who we know will never stop or change? I'm not asking you to quote the rule book but think to your self, does that makes sense.

 

 

I am also not from MG, I am from Trench Wars and I am zone staff there. He's made it an issue everywhere he spams. I am going to work with some staff in TW, maybe get some proposals passed about specific spamming and harr!@#$%^&*ment so we don't have to deal with people like Spinsanity. If TW were smaller he would be gone already.

 

I know a lot of people want to make this issue very political, SS wise... but look beyond it for a second and watch what this person is doing before you want to say anything.

[»i88gerbils]

Okay then, I'll add you to the list of people who didn't read my post clearly.

 

But let's start over.. (editting)

 

1. Someone comes on the forum complaining about being banned. Normally we don't give a flying !@#$%^&*. However this time it is about free speech. The debate starts with whether or not it is correct to restrict the type of speech in a zone, but quickly turns into a "server rights" defense.

 

2. Server rights is valid, but then they complained that they shouldn't be yelled at for using, which is obviously stupid as proven by several individuals.

 

3. Spamming & Har!@#$%^&*ment. As noted by myself & verified in the SSC netban policy, is in fact against the rules. Somehow some morons decided to call us morons for agreeing with this & stating that we don't know what we're talking about. As I stated before, if Testtube feels har!@#$%^&*ed or feels that Spin. is spamming, then by all means netban/ban away.

 

So folks, in future, it's best to actually read the conversation in full before thinking people aren't on the right track or are "morons". Because that makes you a newb. GG.

[LearJett+]

Spin, do you even acknowledge the possibility that people could do something good just to be a good person? Or does your consiracy-ridden world not permit that from Conservatives?

[spin]

Disturbing pattern of behavior

 

Kolar, your sorta annoying too, but I am not out to ban you, nor do I wish that you wonder into a bad zone-owners sight and get banned for little to no reason. I am protesting against this behavior for you Kolar as well as me and everyone else on the SSC network. As everyone that takes TestTubes's rights of server ownership points out, he can ban anyone he wants for any reason. As you put it "No one is there to make sure you get treated fairly." -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars)

 

Lets take your points,

"he [TestTube] pays a lot of money out of his own pocket for you and everyone for nothing to play MG, could you not at least acknowledge and respect that?" -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars)

 

Whats not to respect? The problem is how TestTube chooses to do with what he has created, and how he treats the people that wonder into his zone.

 

As a side note... I ACTUALLY DO RESPECT Kolar's ZH skills, Kolar is a excellent ZH, every time I have ever had a question or had to do a ?cheater, Kolar has always been right there (no matter what name I was using). Trying to get me banned, I have to say I do not agree with, and I didn't agree when you and ephemeral tried a few years ago for the same reasons as TestTube banned me. ephemeral == TestTube? hard to tell.

 

"......if anyone of the SSC members actually saw what you do in game they'd agree, anyone would." -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars)

 

I do not hide how I play Sub Space, I believe darn near everyone has seen me play in TW, records exist of my game play and chat, I talk to players day in and day out. I do not spam, I do not har!@#$%^&*, I do not interfere with game play, apparently I DO agitate some people (go figure ), I do change zones, and sometimes I may not respond to everyone on all occasions, but I try. (If I responded would you also call it spam or har!@#$%^&*ment? Just asken)

 

"People who don't want to see politics, or your version of it in SS and on here are NOT Nazis, facists or anti-American." -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars)

 

I never said they were, I do however say how TestTube and his staff oppressively treats the people that come to his zone, in a Fascist sorta way. I started out my protest on the SSC rules forum, and TestTube's sys op SVC locked the thread. In that forum I found that I was FAR from the only one that has a problem with TestTube's behavior. Metal Gear has a disturbing pattern of behavior...

 

Kolar and others, I want you to read

http://www.ssforum.net/c/index.php?showtopic=7603

 

I do not care if this guy was cheating or not, what MG's staff did to this guy is unacceptable in a network where we are trying to build a community. Pay attention to the conversation the banned guy had with TestTube before TestTube net banned the guy (near bottom of page one). I had about the same experience. I started this protest because TestTube was threatening a one year net ban on me, it looks like this I was not the first. And how people treated the banned guy while they were posting on that forum wasn't all that nice either.

 

Kolar, you feel strongly about my political talk and resent it so forcefully you will tend to remain fixed to the issue regardless if your concept is found to be completely flawed. Kolar you do not have to support me, but take a look at who you are supporting, for now please go with me on this one.

 

Spin

 

Mr. Bak, I only said it would be interesting to find out how the deal with ABC and the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund got worked out. Public relation companys are not in the habit of telling how and why things are worked out. I am pointing out that Bush jr's failure to respond to the Tsunami disaster for days, and his failure to respond to the disaster in New Orleans for days make America look bad, the teaming up of Bush Sr. and Mr. Clinton to a cause called the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund is simply damage control for GW Bush making America look bad. (Can we expect a pre recorded bush jr speech at half-time? Bet me!). As far as ABC is concerned, Disney, parent company of ABC, has turned most of its extensive radio network and owned-and-operated stations into a 24/7 orgy of right-wing talk. (Sean Hannity is their poster boy.) As far as politics and tonight's event... I find it interesting that Mr. Clinton used today to distance himself from bush's policys. Politics being involved with the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund? Go Figure!

 

Lear Jet, Liberals can be totalitarians too, we call them Communist. The pattern of abuse that I am !@#$%^&*ing about on the SSC network is a symptom of Right Wing influence, Bush White House lies for war did not come from the left. As I always point out, Bush's politics are neo-conservative, not conservative, there is a HUGE difference. Neo Cons are not Conservatives, Bush isn't a Conservative, Limbaugh, O'Riley and the Right Wing radio talking heads are not Conservative, They are Neo Conservative, go back to that article I posted on Astros link called "Neo Conned" to find out more.

[Kolar]

Okay then, I'll add you to the list of people who didn't read my post clearly.

 

But let's start over.. (editting)

 

1. Someone comes on the forum complaining about being banned. Normally we don't give a flying !@#$%^&*. However this time it is about free speech. The debate starts with whether or not it is correct to restrict the type of speech in a zone, but quickly turns into a "server rights" defense.

 

2. Server rights is valid, but then they complained that they shouldn't be yelled at for using, which is obviously stupid as proven by several individuals.

 

3. Spamming & Har!@#$%^&*ment. As noted by myself & verified in the SSC netban policy, is in fact against the rules. Somehow some morons decided to call us morons for agreeing with this & stating that we don't know what we're talking about. As I stated before, if Testtube feels har!@#$%^&*ed or feels that Spin. is spamming, then by all means netban/ban away.

 

So folks, in future, it's best to actually read the conversation in full before thinking people aren't on the right track or are "morons". Because that makes you a newb. GG.

 

Drop the at!@#$%^&*ude i88gerbils.

 

If the zones and the network do not give out rights or outline the protection for freedom of speach, then I see it as a moot point for both you and Spinsanity to be bringing here. We know why Spinsanity is doing this, it isn't about freedom of speach or about his right to have a political opinion; he wants to be annoying. It is right to limit Spinsanity from spamming macros and from being excessively annoying and abusive, not only because the zones reserve the right to do anything but because it isn't right to be spamming and being an annoying !@#$%^&*ing re!@#$%^&* on a free online game, making a big !@#$%^&*ing deal about it also on almost all of the SS forums doesn't seem to be good either.

 

 

 

Testtube will run the zone the way he wants it, nothing you or I say will change that. I don't think he has stepped out of line as far as banning goes and I think he was very reasonable and gave Spinsanity too much room before removing him.

[LearJett+]

go back to that article I posted on Astros link called "Neo Conned" to find out more.

Rofl, that sounds impartial and worth reading...

 

 

Bush White House lies for war did not come from the left.

You never tell us any of the lies, Spin. You tapdance around the whole issue. Give us something to debate!

[Kolar]

bleh bleh bleh

 

 

1. There are a lot of reasons to remove you Spinsanity, I've already listed them.

 

2. You respect no one with a differences of opinion. Stop calling everyone nazis.

 

3. Ephemeral is not TT.

 

4. I only want you banned because I know you will not change your behavior on the SS comunity forums and in the game. The only difference between me and a lot of people here Spin is they'll give you a chance, you've ran out of them with me.

 

5. You may respond to some Bush-gun loving nut and anger him/her further or just the general population (Some people are tired of seeing anything political in this game and online) but the idea of any information or opinion changing your mind or turning anything from you into a respectable discussion is insane. Anything against you is anti-American or just unimportant, remember Spin I'm Canadian, you've said it many times: We don't matter to you and we shouldn't have opinions or be allowed to talk about politics.

 

6. Cheaters and banned players get little respect from me. If TT and his staff want to use that as a tool for discouraging cheating then I'm all for it.

 

7. There is no way I could make you understand why your actions on MG and in TW are completely wrong and why nothing you say has a shreed of political insight or intrest. That's why I am not focused on any kind of information or debate, political or otherwise here.

 

8. This is all a joke, you're trying to make people out to be evil Nazis or conservatives. Get real, this is a free online game.

 

 

Why don't you start a blog or goto political forums like these and leave people alone? You seem to be more intrested in posting news or "facts" and not discussing or debating anything most of the time so Forums and SS don't seem to agree with you. Perfect trade off really, you get to annoy people still and we get to hear about it on CNN's blog desk and not on our favorite game .

[spin]

go back to that article I posted on Astros link called "Neo Conned" to find out more.

Rofl, that sounds impartial and worth reading...

 

Read it u dummy!, It is from a conservative right wing congressman, ya he has a right wing slant, but he is largly correct. Also try to google the term "neo conservative" and use whatever source you see fit.

 

 

Bush White House lies for war did not come from the left.

You never tell us any of the lies, Spin. You tapdance around the whole issue. Give us something to debate!

Here is what I want you to do, goto http://mediamatters.org/ pick one article you find that is in error (and calling it "liberal" doesn't equal being in error). Then bring it up on Astro's forum, or start a new topic. I would very muich be interested in the subject you uncover as being in error and your source to back up your claim.

See ya later, spin.

[»i88gerbils]

**Okay, it's time to get warmed up.**

 

Firstly, freedom of speech has often been denied in Online Gaming. Secondly, people seem to confuse the difference between a server operator's rights & the opinion of actions taken by those rights. It is my understanding that several posters in this thread misunderstand the very concepts that we have been discussing.

 

What happens when we run a zone? Players will join. How do they join? The zone is advertised on a directory server. If this is a public zone server listed on the SSC* billing system, then it most likely shows up when they extract Continuum & run it. The principle of a server is akin to an open door. There was only a few instances where large zones were permission-only, and that era has long since past.

 

As I have stated in the past, it is important to establish ourselves as an open community rather than a closed one. Infantry comes to mind when I think of closed. I was happy when it was decided that no one can netban someone based on a name, nor on the contents of their discussion provided that they do not bridge the line to har!@#$%^&*ment.

 

Most sysops make decisions as objectively as they can with the realization that their objectivity is limited by their environment (Priitk comes to mind). It is important to distinguish our personal beliefs from our actions so that we do not deny the personal beliefs of others. Otherwise we start leading down a path towards prejudice & bigotry.

 

Many players think it's harmless. A ban? So what? But why stop there? What's next? When we stop walking in each other's shoes we lose sight of the whole picture. The subjectivity in the best of sysops fades to a bitter at!@#$%^&*ude.

 

e.g. Player 1: I hate jews. They are filthy moneylenders. [ed. obvious drivel intended to annoy]

Player 2: Oh yeah? ?ignored, Next time you spawn in I'm going to own your !@#$%^&*ing !@#$%^&*.

 

Such an extreme example as above rarely merits a response, but even the extreme can be brought in line by players. If the example were spammed, then it's considered hate. When a player speaks in language without basis or fact, then it becomes hate or nonsensical spam. At this point, their behavior can be held libel to the zone owner, and thus they may be banned for illegal behavior.

 

We cannot argue against why a zone owner took an action, but we can argue that acted inappropriately and unsuitable in role as a human being & sysop. Put another way, I cannot deny local policy, but I can deny respect for that local policy.

 

Metal Gear CTF has a policy restricting speech. This goes against unalienable rights that people have decided that they have (or granted to them by God). If Metal Gear CTF does not support such, then I have every right to flame the !@#$%^&* out of anyone stupid enough to argue against it. It puts them in line with such people as Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Joe McCarthy, etc ...

 

So I will state it here: As defined in this thread, Metal Gear CTF is a discriminatory zone, much like T3 the Gauntlet.

 

If all the rest of the zones are like this now, then I will take up my cause once again. If SubSpace has really denegrated to this kind of bull!@#$%^&* behavior, then I'll speak even LOUDER.

 

As stated, sysops have every right to ban who they want, but without responsibilty they are no different from those people that would deny freedom such as Al Qaida. There is no denying this. If you don't want to be called this, then change your policy. Remember, all that I have written does not go against sysop rights, local zone policy, netban policy, and player rights.

 

 

-------

 

As a side note, from what I have read here I am severely disappointed to hear that Kolar holds power in a SubSpace zone. It amuses me that he argues in the veiled ignorance of his newbness. I'm happy now. Except for my utter !@#$%^&*ing hate for SSFN for not enabling HTML on these forums. It's so utterly silent & non-motivational on these forums.