Those crazy Chinese

[Greased_Lightning]

Saw this in my paper this morning so looked it up on the internet:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4688471.stm

 

I sure hope that general isn't representative of their senior military. All I wanted to see in that article after that was something like:

 

"While China has the ability to launch approximately 20 ICBMs that could strike the continental US, if they did, they would find themselves living in a smoking parking lot an hour later." (http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=mj05lewis#1 for some info on China's nuclear arsenal)

 

Yeah... let's just get REAL friendly with these guys. Oh, and I liked how that article ended...

 

"We hope the United States will fulfil its commitments with concrete actions and join efforts with China to maintain the peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait,"

 

But if we invade, don't help a democratic government or we'll launch nukes at you.

 

Seriously, what the !@#$%^&* are they smoking?

[Yupa]

It was just an offhand, unofficial remark. The USA & China have an agreement that it will reunite with Taiwan peaceably if at all.

[MonteZuma]

I sure hope that general isn't representative of their senior military.

Lets put this in perspective. This Chinese General, who is not involved in military planning, said:

 

"If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition onto the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons," Maj Gen Zhu told an official briefing for foreign reporters.

 

He then said that the comments were: "my !@#$%^&*essment, not the policy of the government" and that he was confident the US and China would not go to war.

 

The comments were inflammatory and gung ho, but hardly surprising.

 

I have a suggestion for the US government: If Taiwan does blow up, don't attack mainland China. They may wish to defend themselves.

[X`terrania]

I'm not to worried about China, but give or take 50-100 years, after the U.S has moved their capital to Denver, that will be the final battleground between China and the U.S, i'm just wondering how China plans on getting there.

[Greased_Lightning]

"We firmly believe it is in the interests of both China and the United States... to oppose the 'Taiwan independence' "

 

Why again is it in our interests to oppose the free determination of a people? Oh that's right, cuz China said so, and they are a beacon of civility and human rights, thanks Mao.

 

I have a suggestion for the Chinese gov't: Don't threaten with a BB gun a guy with an Uzi.

[MonteZuma]

"We firmly believe it is in the interests of both China and the United States... to oppose the 'Taiwan independence' "

 

Why again is it in our interests to oppose the free determination of a people? Oh that's right, cuz China said so, and they are a beacon of civility and human rights, thanks Mao.

 

I have a suggestion for the Chinese gov't:  Don't threaten with a BB gun a guy with an Uzi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ICBMs aren't ball bearings.

 

The situation between China and Taiwan isn't all that much different to the situation with the United States and the rebel states before the American civil war. The US wasn't prepared to let the rebel states have self determination...

 

If all of the Democrats supporters in the US moved to California and declared themselves as an independant country with a radically different political system, other states would not stand for it.

[Greased_Lightning]

Wrong, I would definitely support it but then again, I've disliked California for a long time. I don't dislike democrats except for the annoying ones they get on the "news" channels. If I didn't why would I have voted democrats for my state?

 

My BB gun thing was in reference to China's having 20 ICBMs in range of the US compared to our thousands, not to mention the ease with which the US can place short range payloads off their coast as well as using gravity bombs on stealth or cruise missile platforms. Capabilities that are currently beyond the PRC. They could hurt the US badly, but they would be wiped off the map in return...not an attractive option. Not that I'm advocating that at all of course, I don't make policy, and I don't think it will happen. Just clarifying that position.

 

I had a feeling the Civil War comparison would come up but there are some major differences between the two. In the US Civil War, the South's system of government was to be nearly the same as was already in place. Not the fact at all with PRC v Taiwan. Also, while you could argue that the South was rebelling against an oppressive gov't, there is no argument that PRC IS an oppressive government that has a history of the m!@#$%^&* murder of millions of its own citizens and even today blatant disregard for human life and rights. Finally, unless you think slavery is a good thing, the South's reasons for rebelling (even if you only use supposed abuse by the governments in the northern states) were tainted by their support of that ins!@#$%^&*ution. Taiwan has a democratic government, they support human rights, they don't have slaves, they don't murder citizens for speaking out against the government. In my eyes, their country is more valid than the PRC and thus should be recognized and protected from invasion.

 

 

Last thing, as for that Chinese general...If a US general said that, you KNOW that there would be an outcry for him to be fired. China would raise a royal !@#$%^&* fit about how the barbarian Americans are threatening the world, yet... when they do it, we're supposed to say, "Oh they don't REALLY mean that." Someone in the state department probably said the same thing about Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

[X`terrania]

I loved Stalin, did you know that one of his arms was shorter than the other?

[MonteZuma]

My BB gun thing was in reference to China's having 20 ICBMs in range of the US compared to our thousands, not to mention the ease with which the US can place short range payloads off their coast as well as using gravity bombs on stealth or cruise missile platforms.  Capabilities that are currently beyond the PRC.  They could hurt the US badly, but they would be wiped off the map in return...not an attractive option.  Not that I'm advocating that at all of course, I don't make policy, and I don't think it will happen. 

All the 9/11 terrorists had were box cutters. MAD might deter a nuclear attack now, but maybe not if China is backed into a corner. The world, including the US and China, would be better off in every way if the US and China could cooperate on important issues like Taiwan.

 

Taiwan has a democratic government, they support human rights, they don't have slaves, they don't murder citizens for speaking out against the government.  In my eyes, their country is more valid than the PRC and thus should be recognized and protected from invasion. 

Undoubtedly there are differences between the rebel US states and Taiwan, but to Chinese that believe in communism and supported the revolution, the differences might not seem so great.

 

Last thing, as for that Chinese general...If a US general said that, you KNOW that there would be an outcry for him to be fired.

I doubt it. If China attacked mainland USA, there is no doubt that the repercussions for China would be devastating. You said it yourself.

[Aileron]

Well, the US probably would never attack China with a nuclear weapon in order to defend Taiwan...it would be downright illogical, because the fallout might destroy the country we are trying to defend.

 

The situation between Taiwan and China is hardly a civil war. It is infact the Taiwanese Government who truly has legal rights to rule China, because the Chinese monarchy fled there at the communist revolution. Thus, Taiwan is a threat to the Communist, because it might re!@#$%^&*urt its right to rule.

 

China would never commit to a nuclear attack on Taiwan, it would do too much damage to their foreign policy and international trade. Especially since the only thing China would have to do is a group of !@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*inations, eliminating only the officials that have legal rights to China. Still, it would definitely be foolish to assume that China would not use nukes, you never know.

 

 

 

This just seems like an issue that is never going to be resolved, but just cool down over the years until eventually no one will care about it. We survived this long without any fighting, so I doubt anything will develop.

[MonteZuma]

Well, the US probably would never attack China with a nuclear weapon in order to defend Taiwan...it would be downright illogical, because the fallout might destroy the country we are trying to defend.

Not necessarily. I think it would be illogical for other reasons.

 

The situation between Taiwan and China is hardly a civil war.

The Chinese civil war ended in 1949 with the defeat of the KMT by the communists. What we have left (the dispute over Taiwan) is an artefact of the civil war.

 

It is infact the Taiwanese Government who truly has legal rights to rule China, because the Chinese monarchy fled there at the communist revolution.  Thus, Taiwan is a threat to the Communist, because it might re!@#$%^&*urt its right to rule.

Possesion is 9 tenths of the law. The KMT and the ROC have been well and truly usurped by the PRC and the ROC doesn't have any rights over the mainland at all. If it wasn't for US support, Taiwan would be just another province of communist China. And btw, the KMT - and the system they supported - was not a monarchy. In fact the KMT overthrew the Chinese monarchy in 1911.

 

Especially since the only thing China would have to do is a group of !@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*inations, eliminating only the officials that have legal rights to China.

Which officials are they?

 

Still, it would definitely be foolish to assume that China would not use nukes, you never know.

And I guess it would be foolish for them to assume that the US would not use nukes.

 

This just seems like an issue that is never going to be resolved, but just cool down over the years until eventually no one will care about it.  We survived this long without any fighting, so I doubt anything will develop.

I agree, except that I think people will always care about it. I suspect that eventually a face-saving solution will be put in place. That might not happen for a while yet though.