The "right-wing" media strikes again

[Aileron]

First it was CBS making up stuff about Bush's National Guard service. Now its Newsweek making up stuff about flushing the Quran down a toilet. Anyone who still thinks Bush has these guys in his pocket has to be kidding themselves. This behavior is not a right wing spin, not a left-wing spin, and its not even left wing propaganda...this is flat out lying to push a left-wing agenda. Newsweek went farther than any John Kerry advertisement did.

 

Journalists are supposed to be impartial by the unwritten code of ethics that shows up in any professional career, similar to how a doctor is bound to do no harm or a lawyer is to best represent his client. Now, invariably one's opinion will sneak in to whatever one writes, but that is not an excuse not to attempt to produce impartial work. This case was clearly the opposite. Newsweek's goal was to push a left-wing agenda, and they sought stories which supported that agenda, whether true or not.

 

 

 

There used to be a local restaurant franchise by the name of Chi Chi's...those who live in the US and Canada know of it well, though I'm not so sure about those who live oversees. Chi Chi's served pretty high quality and healthy mexican food. A couple years ago, there was an outbreak of hepi!@#$%^&*is from one of these restaurants. I don't remember if this was the fault of one of the restaurant employees or one of the suppliers in Mexico. Basically, at the end of it all, the entire franchise was put out of business.

 

 

Similarly, the apology offerred by Newsweek should by no means be accepted. Newsweek should be brought up on charges until they are put out of business, and those who covered the story personally should be put in prison. With Chi Chi's accident an untrained minimum wage worker caused infection of a couple dozen people. With Newsweek's accident a trained and college educated professional caused several dozen to be killed and hundreds injured in rioting throughout the Middle East.

 

Especially troubling is what they did to EVERYBODY's goal of getting a little peace. Al Queda was previously having big problems. There have even been a few incidents of Iraqi civilians firing on insurgents, because the populace was getting tired of the "us vs. them" at!@#$%^&*ude of terrorists. I mean, Al Queda was begining to have recruitment problems...who would join an organization devoted to advancing the opinions of a few select leaders, who run and hide in caves while ordering their underlings to suicide bomb, and who instead of solving the problems the middle east had, merely made things worse by declaring war on the world's only superpower. There are always a few fanatics here and there, but the continual pattern of Al Queda taking from the populace and the US making every effort to drop food, house refugees, etc. was really making it difficult for the Al Queda recruiter.

 

Until Newsweek published that little article. They just managed to convince the Middle East that the west doesn't respect their beliefs. This false story is all an Al Queda recruiter needs. Previously, Al Queda was on their heels. Now, they are back into the fight.

 

 

The damage Newsweek did both physically and to the foreign policy of not only the US but the entire western world is truly incalculable. The First Amendment protects free speech, but does not apply to libel. Newsweek definitely should be put up on charges and put out of business.

[MonteZuma]

I know nothing of the Quran/toilet story. Got links?

 

I think it is quite normal for the en!@#$%^&*bant leader to cop more scrutiny than the opposition. After all, they are the ones that make the decisions that can make or break things that affect our futures and our daily lives. Most of this opposition is likely to come from people that have an opposing political viewpoint.

 

There is nothing wrong with media bias and media subjectivity - so long as it is ultimately balanced and clear to the viewer/reader when we are being presented fact and when we are being presented opinion. I believe the best journalism comes from investigative journalists who are passionate about the issues they are reporting. It is probably impossible to be passionate and unbiased.

 

I agree that there is no place for liars in journalism (or politics for that matter), but I guess sometimes people say things that turn out not to be true. That isn't always lying (if it was, GWB wouldn't have a leg to stand on).

 

Fwiw, I doubt that Al Qaida members pay very much attention to what is said on Newsweek. I think the bloody pictures of civilian casualties they get from Al Jazeera is all that an Al Qaida or insurgent recruiter needs to garner support.

[Dr Brain]

I disagree with your second paragraph, saying that reporters should be impartial. I don't think that they can, or that they should. I just don't think they should claim to be objective when they are not.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Replace the concepts "journalism" with "intelligence" and the Qu'ran with Iraqs Weapons of M!@#$%^&* Destruction.

[SeVeR]

yea bush sets a shining example

[NBVegita]

I concur with brain.

[Greased_Lightning]

I agree total impartiality is impossible. The journalist should've checked out his source better, that's just responsible journalism and common-sense. The guy who wrote it should be canned, the fact-checker for Newsweek should be reprimanded or fired, the editor should be reprimanded somehow. The media needs to get a message that irresponsible reporting shouldn't be tolerated. Granted, everyone makes mistakes, but it doesn't take a Harvard degree to see that a report like that was going to be inflammatory. Taking that into account, extra care should have been taken to confirm their info. They didn't, so they should be punished somehow (they being the individuals mentioned, not Newsweek as a whole).

[MonteZuma]

I agree total impartiality is impossible.  The journalist should've checked out his source better, that's just responsible journalism and common-sense.

Maybe. But sometimes they can't check out their source. I'm uneasy about the backlash from this story. Whistleblowers are sometimes useful at uncovering abuses and corruption. To ignore them because their claims can't be verified is dangerous.

 

The media needs to get a message that irresponsible reporting shouldn't be tolerated.

Our governments and public servants need to get the emssage that they are being watched and any abuse of public trust/sensibility will be punished.

 

Granted, everyone makes mistakes, but it doesn't take a Harvard degree to see that a report like that was going to be inflammatory.  Taking that into account, extra care should have been taken to confirm their info.  They didn't, so they should be punished somehow (they being the individuals mentioned, not Newsweek as a whole).

I have no problem at all with the media reporting something from an anonymous source. So long as it is reported as such. In any case, abuse of the koran has been reported before. This is not some unimaginable science fiction story.

 

Cesnsorship subterfuge?

[Aileron]

Those who are still upset about the lack of WMDs should have paid more attention to Bush's stated reasons for the war. WMDs were a small part, but it was mostly the fact that removing the tyrant justified the loss of life (by the prevention of a slightly greater loss of life from Saddam's secret police), and that the presence of a secular democracy in the Middle East would eventually bring about the collapse of the theocracies...the first one is true and the second one we will only know with time. There's still enough to go to war on even without the WMDs.

 

This is off topic so that is all I will say on this.

 

 

 

No, the story wasn't censored, it was false...there never was any physical abuse done at Guantanimo Bay. There was a lot of supposed LEGAL abuse (mostly from the result of the lack of a good international definition of "terrorist") but no known physical or mental abuse from this particular prison as of yet. Physical abuse in a prison in Iraq is not an indicator of physical abuse in a prison in Cuba.

[MonteZuma]

Those who are still upset about the lack of WMDs

I think that everyone is glad that there was a lack of WMDs.

 

should have paid more attention to Bush's stated reasons for the war.  WMDs were a small part,

That attack on Saddam was justified by GWB et al because it was said to be an important part of the war on terror. But the fact is, Saddam could not have terrorised the west even if he wanted to.

 

In any case, I would hardly call the regime change in Iraq a great success story. Tens of thousands of dead civilians and thousands of dead allied soldiers later and there is still no sign of an end to violence and death in Iraq. Mission accomplished?

 

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.gif

 

No, the story wasn't censored, it was false...there never was any physical abuse done at Guantanimo Bay.

Rubbish. Newsweek said that the claims about the koran being flushed down the toilet still stand. The anonymous source simply said that he may have been mistaken as to which communique the story was reported in. Conservatives have leapt on the relatively insignificant error in the story and I suspect the US government has its spin doctors working on this full-time to help silence future critics. That is why Newsweek buckled under pressure and retracted the story - as well as out of conscience - to help stop the violence that followed the publication of the story.

 

But the core problem here is torture and abuse, not minor errors in a magazine article or the use of anonymous sources.

[MonteZuma]

'Baseless' accusations of koran and prisoner abuse at Guantanamo Bay turn out to be not so baseless afterall.

 

...In the latest disclosure' date=' declassified FBI reports showed that detainees at the U.S. naval prison in Cuba told FBI and military interrogators on a number of occasions as early as April 2002 - three months after the first prisoners arrived at the makeshift prison - that guards abused them and desecrated the Quran.

 

"Their behavior is bad," one detainee is quoted as saying of his guards during an interrogation by an FBI special agent on July 22, 2002. "About five months ago the guards beat the detainees. They flushed a Quran in the toilet."[/quote']

 

The declassification of these do!@#$%^&*ents is probably part damage control and part spin doctoring. The report goes on to say that there is no evidence that the detainees claims are true. Well...umm I guess not everyone in the US military is dumb enough to photograph torture, abuse and miscellaneous violations of the Geneva Convention. It is telling that the government at the time believed in the allegations enough to send in a team of investigators.

 

Anyone who still thinks that these allegations are fanciful and baseless simply needs to take a look at what happened at Abu Graib(sp?). That would never have come to light if not for some dumb!@#$%^&* that took photos.

 

I'll put my trust in Newsweek over the US government any day. Unfortunately though, Newsweek have castrated themselves.

 

EDIT:

An update...

 

U.S. officials have substantiated five cases in which military guards or interrogators mishandled the Quran of Muslim prisoners at Guantanamo Bay but found "no credible evidence" to confirm a prisoner's report that a holy book was flushed in a toilet' date=' the prison's commander said Thursday.[/quote']

 

Whether it was flushed down a toilet hardly matters. It was abuse.

[Aileron]

Realise that Newsweek's only goal in life is to sell you things...they are about as much on your side as Microsoft.

 

 

 

 

I will cite the one and only lie of the Bush administration...on September 12th 2001 he said that we would never forget Sept. 11th. Apparently the left has already forgotten the terrorist attacks that occurred that day.

 

These people are not our guests, they are our enemies. We shouldn't bend over backwards to make them comfortable. I'm not going to pretend to believe that life is pleasurable for the prisoners...but it really SHOULDN'T be...and we certainly shouldn't be rushing to the defense of persons who if they had it their way would kill every single one of us.

[Dr.Worthless]

Newsweek fiasco

 

Tell ya what Monte, I'll go find me an "inside source" that claims to know for fact that you like to have sex with goats while drinking a !@#$%^&*tail made from blended up babies. When you sue me for slander I'll just have the source say "Well, I'm not so sure if thats accurate" and I'll just say "oops, sorry".

 

5 reported mishandlings of the koran!?

 

Chicago Tribune

 

According to this link there was a 3 page instruction guide on how to handle the koran. 3 PAGES of instructions. With the number of detaines and the number of korans being handed out, 5 mishandlings of the koran when the instructions for doing so are 3 pages long is something you should be proud of.

 

Name me another country that hands out religious media to its detainees...

 

Everyone caught up in the liberal spin machine should be absolutly ashamed. How the United States has conducted itself is 100000000000000000000000x better than any other nation has ever conducted itself during a time of war. If you really want something to !@#$%^&* about, !@#$%^&* about Nazi's using their POW's for life experimentation, or Japan raping/pillaging/working people to death. THOSE are real attrocities, this petty bull!@#$%^&* is just the liberal media trying its best to find some nit picky bull!@#$%^&* to bring down the administration, god knows they can't win an election and do it the old fashioned way..

[MonteZuma]

Realise that Newsweek's only goal in life is to sell you things...they are about as much on your side as Microsoft.

I suspect that the average newspaper reporter is no more or less selfish than the average politician. In any case, the facts of this matter still stand.

 

I will cite the one and only lie of the Bush administration...on September 12th 2001 he said that we would never forget Sept. 11th.

He has lied dozens of times. His lies are well-do!@#$%^&*ented.

 

These people are not our guests, they are our enemies.

What crime have the thousands that have not been charged committed?

 

I'm not going to pretend to believe that life is pleasurable for the prisoners...but it really SHOULDN'T be...and we certainly shouldn't be rushing to the defense of persons who if they had it their way would kill every single one of us.

That does not make it ok to violate human rights. If the same treatment was dished out to American prisoners there would be outrage.

[MonteZuma]

Newsweek fiasco

This link is outdated (15 May). New information has come to light supprting the newsweek article.

 

Tell ya what Monte, I'll go find me an "inside source" that claims to know for fact that you like to have sex with goats while drinking a !@#$%^&*tail made from blended up babies.  When you sue me for slander I'll just have the source say "Well, I'm not so sure if thats accurate" and I'll just say "oops, sorry".

The difference between your goat story and the Newsweek article is that the Newsweek article has been proven factual.

 

The reputation of a upstanding publication would be shot if they published hogwash.

 

Chicago Tribune

This link is outdated (20 May). New information has come to light supprting the newsweek article.

 

According to this link there was a 3 page instruction guide on how to handle the koran.  3 PAGES of instructions.  With the number of detaines and the number of korans being handed out, 5 mishandlings of the koran when the instructions for doing so are 3 pages long is something you should be proud of. 

Yeah thats cool. But when some dude flushes one down a toilet or kicks it about the cell all of that good work can be easily undone. A better response by the US government would have been to point out what has been done to investigate the allegations of abuse rather than attack the magazine for blowing the whistle. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

Name me another country that hands out religious media to its detainees...

Every country that abides by the Geneva Convention. The US isn't that special.

 

Everyone caught up in the liberal spin machine should be absolutly ashamed.  How the United States has conducted itself is 100000000000000000000000x better than any other nation has ever conducted itself during a time of war.

Wrong. Both the UK and Australia had very different rules of engagement during the invasion of Iraq that were designed to safeguard civilians. I won't bother mentioning Vietnam - the haunting image of the kid that was napalmed tells the story there.

 

If you really want something to !@#$%^&* about, !@#$%^&* about Nazi's using their POW's for life experimentation, or Japan raping/pillaging/working people to death.

That was then and this is now. In any case, I believe we did that in an earlier post.

 

THOSE are real attrocities, this petty bull!@#$%^&* is just the liberal media trying its best to find some nit picky bull!@#$%^&* to bring down the administration, god knows they can't win an election and do it the old fashioned way..

Justifying US breaches of international law and human rights by saying 'well at least it isn't as bad as what the nazis did to the jews, so nya nya' doesn't really help your argument. If the US wants to be a champion of freedom and democracy then your government sure as !@#$%^&* ought to practice what it preaches.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Monte ++

[Dr.Worthless]

Bottom line is, if you print a 3 page manual on how to handle a book, and you p!@#$%^&* out thousands of the books, you're going to have mishandlings of them. There is solid proof of 5 cases of mishandlings, flushing a koran down the toilet isn't one of them.

 

Another source

 

Monte, I know for an anti-bush regurgitator such as yourself, its very easy to take 5 cases of mishandling and spin it into a huge issue. Yes, There is a need for continued vigilance in insuring that prisoners are treated fairly, however, failing to recognize that the United States is in the forefront of treatement of detaines during Modern warfare is ignorant.

 

You're letting your political agenda cloud your judgement, constant blabber from foreigners is what turned me off from this board in the first place.

 

The very fact that this thread has 15+ replies, yet there isn't a single thread about the virtual colapse of the European Union is further proof that the only thing that appeals to you all is bush hating.

[MonteZuma]

Bottom line is, if you print a 3 page manual on how to handle a book, and you p!@#$%^&* out thousands of the books, you're going to have mishandlings of them.  There is solid proof of 5 cases of mishandlings, flushing a koran down the toilet isn't one of them.

Your link is more than 2 weeks old. Here's the latestnews:

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - American jailers at the Guantanamo prison for foreign terrorism suspects splashed a Koran with urine, kicked and stepped on the Islamic holy book and soaked it with water, the U.S. military said on Friday.

 

...and they're just the cases that were proved. If some soldier pisses on the koran what makes you think that they wouldn't flush it down the toilet?

 

I know for an anti-bush regurgitator such as yourself, its very easy to take 5 cases of mishandling and spin it into a huge issue. 

If you switch on the TV or read a newspaper, you'll find heaps of discussion on this issue. Thanks, but I can't take all the credit for making this a huge issue.

 

...failing to recognize that the United States is in the forefront of treatement of detaines during Modern warfare is ignorant. 

I think other western nations are streets ahead of the US in the treatment of detainees. I'm not aware of any other western nation that keeps 3,000 prisoners in detention for 3 years without laying charges. I'm also not aware of any other nation that sends detainees off to third countries for interrogation by torture. The US does not have a good record for the treatment of detainees at all.

 

You're letting your political agenda cloud your judgement, constant blabber from foreigners is what turned me off from this board in the first place.

This is the Internet. This is not the US. To half of the people that post here, you are the foreigner. And fwiw, I don't have a political agenda. I have a political viewpoint.

 

The very fact that this thread has 15+ replies, yet there isn't a single thread about the virtual colapse of the European Union is further proof that the only thing that appeals to you all is bush hating.

Feel free to start a thread on the EU. I'll make a point of contributing.

[Dr.Worthless]

Funny Monte that you're "new information" doesn't include anything backing up the claims of newsweek about a guard flushing the koran down the toilet.

You cannot draw conclusions to what MAY have happen based on what was proven to have happened. What we have here is a simple case of Newsweek making up fake stories because what they knew was true wasn't shocking enough. If Newsweek would have published information about the 5 confirmed cases of abuse, then we wouldn't be having these discussions. However, Newsweek chose to attempt to create a story to not only sell issues, but fit their political agenda. That's a shame, and unfortunatly they'll get away with it scot free, because people like Montezuma, and others, are willing to let them get away with it.

 

Attempting to define a nations policy off of .05% and ignoring the 99.95% that obviousy highlights the policy is self serving. Attempting to label the United States as a state that purposfully mistreats its detainees based on 5 cases is ludicrious, and ignorant.

 

The 5 cases that are proven should be acted upon, and the people who abused the koran be punished. However, for having 3000 detainees over 2 years, handing out well over 1500 korans, and having only 5 cases of abuse, in my book, is pretty !@#$%^&* good.

 

I understand though that most people think that its possible to attain perfection...

[MonteZuma]

Funny Monte that you're "new information" doesn't include anything backing up the claims of newsweek about a guard flushing the koran down the toilet.

It has been proved that guards splashed urine on the koran. Other incidents of koran abuse were also proved. Whether the koran was flushed down the toilet or not is now inconsequential. If it were not for Newsweek, these abuses would still be covered up.

 

That's a shame, and unfortunatly they'll get away with it scot free, because people like Montezuma, and others, are willing to let them get away with it. 

You want Newsweek to be punished for lifting the lid on a coverup by your government? If it wasn't for an anonymous inside source Watergate would still be a fanciful anti-government conspiracy theory. I bet you consider Mark Felt to be a traitor too.

 

Attempting to label the United States as a state that purposfully mistreats its detainees based on 5 cases is ludicrious, and ignorant.

Actually there are about 3,000 cases languishing in Guantanamo(sp?) Bay. A government commited to justice and human rights does not keep people imprisoned for an indefinite period of years without allowing them to have their day in court.. And they do not send prisoners to third countries to be tortured. What the US government is doing is outrageous and counterproductive.

[Aileron]

Monte, of the persons detained in Guantanimo Bay, how many of them have been decapitated by rusty machetes?

 

They are on a third country because it would be stupid to bring them to the mainland. They haven't been brought up on charges because terrorists are neither military nor civilian personelle. They haven't been released because that would be insane.

 

This a fabricated issue concocted by Democrats who, lacking a plan to deal with Social Security, Terrorism, or Health Care, need to create an issue they can actually fight in, and foreigners, who are so angry about the US taking matters in our own hands after we were attacked that they need to take whatever shot at the US they can come up with.

 

 

Generally, if either of these groups really gave a hoot about human rights, they would be backing the US's and Bush's efforts to stop terrorism. If you haven't noticed, the treatment Al Queda gives to their prisoners hasn't followed Geneva yet.

 

I remember you one time saying that everyone is a racist at heart. I think your subliminal racism comes in the form of !@#$%^&*igning different codes of conduct to races. You think that caucasian people can be expected to live to one standard and that muslims can only be expected to live to another. Thus, when an Al Queda pig saws off a civilian's head, it doesn't occur to you that that is a far worse crime then when an American splashes a book, because you hold Al Queda to a different standard than the US.

 

I on the other hand do not...to me there is no reason Al Queda's treatment of prisoners cannot be mostly civil with the occasional instance of Bible splashing, other than the fact the the organization is full of fanatical s!@#$%^&*. My interpretations of the War on Terror is gradually turning into the classical good vs. evil view because Al Queda never makes all attempts to be as brutal and uncivilised as possible.

 

If the Al Queda standard of treating prisoners ever rose above they way the US treats our prisoners, I would indeed have a problem with this, but as things currently are, the prisoners in Guananimo Bay could rot in there for all I care.

[LearJett+]

- Aileron is my hero

 

- A Chi Chi's closed by me too for a hepa!@#$%^&*is outbreak a while back! Either we live near eachother or Chi Chi's is unhealthy :-\

 

LearJett+

[SamHughes]

I will cite the one and only lie of the Bush administration...on September 12th 2001 he said that we would never forget Sept. 11th.  Apparently the left has already forgotten the terrorist attacks that occurred that day.

 

These people are not our guests, they are our enemies.  We shouldn't bend over backwards to make them comfortable.  I'm not going to pretend to believe that life is pleasurable for the prisoners...but it really SHOULDN'T be...and we certainly shouldn't be rushing to the defense of persons who if they had it their way would kill every single one of us.

 

Pleasurable? I think the goal is simply humane treatment.

 

There is a very good reason to treat people with dignity. It's the moral thing to do.

 

I don't think anybody has forgotten 9/11, except maybe my -year-old grandmother. The disagreement over war in Iraq and how the US is responding is a question of what is the best and most practical way to prevent terrorism -- our invasion of Iraq may be setting off more terrorism than before.

 

The dislike of the Bush administration comes from a whole bunch of angles. There are the people who hated Republicans already.

 

There are the people who disagree with the war in Iraq because they think it's actually helping fester terrorism. Their beliefs may turn out to be correct. On the other hand, it may be that this war will burn democracy into southwest Asia much like Napoleon did with Europe.

 

The second reason for disagreeing with the Bush administration would be the people who disagree with the war in Iraq because humans are dying. People who like to count American deaths are simply selfish and I have no respect for them.

 

There are the people who dislike the Bush administration because they are totalitarians. Totalitarians who believe in elections, but there are even Republican-types who would think that pushing off elections is a valid option if a terrorist attack happens that day or just before. Those people are simply scary, and one has to wonder what they are up to. They have vastly expanded government powers, and it is currently possible for a U.S. citizen to be arrested and held indefinitely without trial. It could happen to you, Aileron; all they have to do is claim you are a terrorist. It's also possible for the government to seize your belongings and search your house or apartment without a warrant, and you'll never know it. Again, all they have to do is call you a terrorist. I thought that unlimited government ability of search and seizure was one of the gripes against the British before the Revolutionary War.

 

Generally speaking, this destruction of all liberty has been justified with excuses of security. But the same excuses could go for regular, non-terroristic crime, and the same logic could be used to justify warrantless arrests and search and seizure in those cases. This logic is clearly wrong, unless you actually think a police state is a good idea. The administration has gotten its support not by appealing to people's rational side, but instead it has appealed to their emotional side. The people who have "forgotten 9/11" are simply the ones who have gone back to thinking rationally. Five years ago, if somebody were to describe to me a leader who appealed to people's emotional side and and gave excuses of "security" to increase government power, remove freedoms, and start war, I'd think he was talking of somebody who gained popularity seventy years ago.

 

If we're going to hold suspected terrorists indefinitely without trial, why not hold suspected committers of other crimes indefinitely without trial? Releasing them would be "insane."

[white_0men]

It's been a while since I've posted here, lost the link for a while, but I'm back...so on with the arguing!

 

I too don't think that anyone has forgotten about 9/11. Instead, 9/11 has been used by Bush repeatedly to scare most of the population into allowing things like the patriot act. Hasn't anyone else made the connection between the cold war of our parents years and this war on terror? Neither was a war that could be won, but that didn't stop the government from using the fear of communists to drive their own agendas.

 

Two weeks ago I was rudely awakened by the FBI at 6:30 in the morning because apparently my Pakistani roomate was such a threat to the country they had to deport him 5 days before he had planned to go back home. This wasn't even the first time they had deported him, they stopped him at the airport, kept him there for 12 hours, and then had him pay for a ticket back home. Why? Never gave him a reason. Is this the kind of government you want? The kind that turns away colege students with legal visas because of where they are from? Why give him the visa in the first place if you are just going to deport him?

 

Ail, do you think that the way Bush is dealing with terrorism is really going to stop it from occuring? I'd imagine that his actions over the last couple of years have only served to recruit more terrorists. What better slogan could the muslim world have asked for than Bush?

 

There are also the people who feel that Bush completely went about Iraq in the wrong way. Other countries like Syria and Iran either have nuclear weapons, or are trying to get them as we speak, yet here we are, still in Iraq. It's disgusting.

[MonteZuma]

They are on a third country because it would be stupid to bring them to the mainland.

Why?

 

They haven't been brought up on charges because terrorists are neither military nor civilian personelle.  They haven't been released because that would be insane.

Terrorism is illegal. If they are terrorists they can be charged. They haven't been charged. Why?

 

I remember you one time saying that everyone is a racist at heart.

I said we are all biased....In relation to a discussion where somebody mentioned the concept of herd mentaility.

 

  I think your subliminal racism comes in the form of !@#$%^&*igning different codes of conduct to races.  You think that caucasian people can be expected to live to one standard and that muslims can only be expected to live to another.  Thus, when an Al Queda pig saws off a civilian's head, it doesn't occur to you that that is a far worse crime then when an American splashes a book, because you hold Al Queda to a different standard than the US.

Not at all. I think that we in the wealthy, well-educated, democratic west should set the standard and we should practice what we preach. Murderers, wherever they are, should be subject to trial and punishment. Accused murderers, no matter where they are, should be considered innocent until proven guilty. Every person accused of a crime should be detained in humane conditions, tried as soon as practicable and released or punished in accordance with law.

 

If the Al Queda standard of treating prisoners ever rose above they way the US treats our prisoners, I would indeed have a problem with this, but as things currently are, the prisoners in Guananimo Bay could rot in there for all I care.

I don't consider Al Qaida to be a role model and I can't understand why you are using them as a yardstick of human rights? I think the western system of trial by jury in accordance with the law, with legal representation, etc, etc to be the best system there is. I'd like to see to see everyone in Guantanimo(sp?) tried and punished or released.

 

You have a problem with that?