Death penalty

[Nokia]

I think its a horrible way of ending someones life, even with lethal injection. Awareness under anaesthethic. anyways that doesnt matter they still sit there for 12 years knowing that one day someone will come along and kill them for something they did a few decades ago, all in some dressed up ceremony with witnesses that for some reason makes it ok to kill people. Its a powertrip for the government, to be able to prepare and publically anounce a murder years in advance. I also dont like the whole culture of "he must die" hate that comes along with it.

what do u think of it?

[Zeke]

I'm pro-capital punishment, but only under the cir!@#$%^&*stances. Yeah, it sucks to have to be put to death... but there's always the flip-side... why is so and so being put to death... how did he kill/maim/necrophilia someone? I just don't like the fact that people who've been punished that way sometimes come up innocent. Such is to be, that if a person is put to death, the term "beyond a reasonable doubt" really needs to be just that.

 

- Z

[Vile Requiem]

On a related note, the Supreme Court recently (like, this week) struck down the death penalty for minors.

[Zeke]

Really? I didn't know one was imposed... that's kinda cruel though...

 

- Z

[Aileron]

Yeah, you have to take into account people who are simply just pure evil b@$7@Rds. Such people exist. I don't pity what happens to the serial killer who tortures 15 innocents to death. As a matter of fact, I HOPE they suffer, and wish there was some way to legally torture them without exposing the rest of us.

 

I mean, no human being should be treated like that, but some crimnals aren't human.

[Dav]

outting them to detah just lets them off, they should be allowed to stay in silitude and be left tor it to play on their minds for the rest of their lives.

[Vile Requiem]

We could lock them up in solitary WITH THE LIGHTS OFF (total darkness).

 

After about a month you go insane, which would serve them right.

[Manus Celer Dei]

On a related note, the Supreme Court recently (like, this week) struck down the death penalty for minors.

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Gee finally. Seriously not even China reserves the right to execute its children.

 

but some crimnals aren't human.

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That is very dangerous thinking there. If criminals are not considered human, then it can easily become acceptable to mistreat them in such ways that would otherwise be abhorrent. Final solution anyone?

 

We could lock them up in solitary WITH THE LIGHTS OFF (total darkness).

 

After about a month you go insane, which would serve them right.

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Isn't cruel and unusual punishment outlawed in one of your country's founding principles?

[Bajan]

who says we have the right to take a persons life like that? Its totally wrong

[Vile Requiem]

Isn't cruel and unusual punishment outlawed in one of your country's founding principles?

 

Yep, in the 8th amendment, thank you for noticing

However, our President has signed more then 160 death certificates (including 3 teenagers) and appoints people to positions who support torture, so I suppose that the US pretends the law doesn't exist anymore.

[MonteZuma]

The death penalty is barbaric and I don't support it. My reasons:

 

* Anyone that commits a crime that is so das!@#$%^&*ly that it warrants the death penalty must be sick in the head. A civilised society doesn't kill sick people.

 

* It is a proven fact that the death penalty isn't an effective detterent.

 

* It stuffs up the legal system. An innocent person might plead guilty to avoid a potential death penalty.

 

* Innocent people get convicted all the time no matter how hard we try to make the legal system perfect. The risk of innocent people being executed is ever-present and impossible for me to accept.

 

* There are alternatives. Life imprisonment and solitary confinement.

 

There are a few other reasons that spring to mind, but those are the main ones.

[Aileron]

Vile, which people did Bush appoint to which positions who supported which kind of torture? If you are going to throw wild statements around you need to be more specific than that.

 

No, being Republican does not automatically make you support torture.

 

No, capital punishment is not considered torture.

 

 

(Aileron @ Mar 5 2005, 09:22 AM)

but some crimnals aren't human.

That is very dangerous thinking there. If criminals are not considered human, then it can easily become acceptable to mistreat them in such ways that would otherwise be abhorrent. Final solution anyone?

 

All justice is dangerous, but decisions must be made. Actually, knowing which criminals are human and which ones aren't is a very easy judgement to make. Usually, a normal person cannot even comprehend their motives and are filled with a little bit of anger when they comprehend what the offende has done. It must be done by a case by case basis.

 

 

You have to work in some kind of civil service job to understand. When I worked in a hospital, there would be women who were raped and people beaten close to death, and seeing these people suffering made me want to track down whoever did this to them and beat the crap out of that person myself.

 

The criminals sicken me too if they tried to run from police. When a criminal runs, the police have to eventually tackle them, and every time a police officer makes physical contact with a criminal the criminal screams police brutality. There's never as much as a bruise on these guys, but every time they claim police brutality. Not only that, but if the criminal is a minority they always whine racism. The officer is never brutal or racist, and as a matter of fact might even be the same race. Its just what the criminal does in a sick attempt to get off and to get people to pity him.

 

I've never seen 15 murder victims at the same time, but I can imagine why the guy who did it deserves to die.

 

 

As for innocents being convicted by mistake, maybe we should be trying to fix the justice system instead of messing around with it.

[MonteZuma]

capital punishment is not considered torture.

That's debatable.

 

All justice is dangerous, but decisions must be made.  Actually, knowing which criminals are human and which ones aren't is a very easy judgement to make.

Bah. A dog is a dog even if it ASSS on the carpet and bites its owner. A human is a human even if he/she commits a crime. This is silly-talk.

 

You have to work in some kind of civil service job to understand.  When I worked in a hospital, there would be women who were raped and people beaten close to death, and seeing these people suffering made me want to track down whoever did this to them and beat the crap out of that person myself.

I'd say that reaction is animalistic. Even so, I don't think you need to be a civil servant to feel those emotions. But, I think those emotions aren't particularly helpful. If we are to be civilised, retribution needs to be fair and measured.

 

As for innocents being convicted by mistake, maybe we should be trying to fix the justice system instead of messing around with it.

Who is advocating that we mess around with it? In any case, the system will never be perfect. Innocent people will be convicted of serious crimes.

[Phyran]

Yeah, you have to take into account people who are simply just pure evil b@$7@Rds.  Such people exist.  I don't pity what happens to the serial killer who tortures 15 innocents to death.  As a matter of fact, I HOPE they suffer, and wish there was some way to legally torture them without exposing the rest of us.

 

I mean, no human being should be treated like that, but some crimnals aren't human.

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its interesting how we use "human" in whatever suits us

[Phyran]

We could lock them up in solitary WITH THE LIGHTS OFF (total darkness).

 

After about a month you go insane, which would serve them right.

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if i remember correctly the US gov't plays the barney song in prisoners' cells 24 hours before interrogating them

[Aileron]

See, that's dissmissive right there, compairing multiple homicides required to get the death penalty with a dog biting its owner.

 

!@#$%^&*uming they did in fact do their crimes, your typical death row inmate is more a monster than a human. A human being is capable of love and usually incomplete if the being does not love another. Those who are to be executed not only are incapable of love, but incapable of human respect, otherwise there would be very few cases where they bring themselves to kill an innocent human being.

 

I mean take the case of a man who kills his wife for life insurance. Human beings love their spouses and push come to shove would themselves be willing to die for the sake of the other. The man who kills his wife clearly can't love her, because if he did she would be more precious to him than any amount of money. Not only that, but he doesn't even respect her status as another sentient. If he did, he would realise that some money is not worth sacrificing a sentient. He would have to be so egotistical the believe that his petty wants are more important than an entire other person.

 

And that remind you is not even enough to get you on death row in 49 states (hats off to Texas for still having some sense in these matters). In most states, the criminal needs multiple counts in order to get the death sentence. In such cases we have multiple angles to prove that these people have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

 

Sorry, I really can't pity these people - I spent all my pity on their victims. I don't have any left for those who neither feel love or even basic human respect.

[Phyran]

im incapable of love...yet i dont go around killing ppl but i see your point

[Greased_Lightning]

This is a big issue and I don't even know exactly where I stand. On the one hand, I do think that killing is wrong, but then again if someone broke into my home with a gun, I wouldn't hesitate to kill him if necessary.

 

On the other hand, for some criminals, this is the only way to ensure safety. If someone is so evil and has so little regard for human life, it is a danger to people who would have to interact with them if they just got life imprisonment. Putting those guards at risk isn't right either.

And I don't put stock in the belief that if a person did horrible things (murder, torture, of victims) that they MUST be insane. There are horrible people out there that do these things and we can't let them say, "Oh, I had a momentary break from reality so it's not MY fault." (Yeah, in some cases this is true but if someone has enough presence of mind to put planning into their crimes, they don't get any sympathy). Take that DC sniper a few years ago. They planned all that out, killed a lot of innocent people. They deserve the same regard they had for others: none. They had ample opportunity to make a moral decision but didn't.

 

Anyways, this is one of those topics that everyone has an opinion about, so you could say I probably lean towards favoring death penalty, but only in extreme cases without doubt. After all, better 1000 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be imprisoned.

 

Oh, and someone mentioned that China didn't execute minors. This may be true but China still is one f'd up country. If someone has an unauthorized pregnancy they jab a needle into a baby's head as it's being born and kill it. Now that's a f'ing crime, and we trade with these ASSS?

[Silverkiller]

I do not comply agaisnt the death penalty. Its a sicken thought to bear. But the suspect should suffered for it, like one mention the lights turned off. They should be in prison for the rest of thier life. In reality, there are no enemies. The reason is because our enemies are humans like us. They can only be enemies in relative terms...as the time changes...so do they.

[»Ducky]

If I went out, killed 13 people and turned out to have no real mental problems (Statement is debatable)

I would welcome life in solitude compared to that of death.

 

To not be able to live at all would crush me, that is my deterrent.

Being able to think logically on a higher level is one of a humans best defining features. As long as the mind is still able to work, you have taken nothing away.

 

 

My view doesn't touch rehabilitation. That to me is another debatable topic entirely.

[Dav]

If I went out, killed 13 people and turned out to have no real mental problems (Statement is debatable)

I would welcome life in solitude compared to that of death.

 

To not be able to live at all would crush me, that is my deterrent.

Being able to think logically on a higher level is one of a humans best defining features.  As long as the mind is still able to work, you have taken nothing away.

 

 

My view doesn't touch rehabilitation.  That to me is another debatable topic entirely.

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The thing about the human mind is its a hungry beast, it needs stimulation. Locking people away and depriving them of that mental nourishman whatever that form may be can be hugly devistating.

[Aileron]

Do you people honestly think life in prison is worse than death?

[MonteZuma]

I think the possibility of receiving a death penalty or life imprisonment work equally well (or poorly) as deterrents. But I suspect that most people that commit heinous crimes don't think very much about the consequences of being caught.

 

I don't think these people are rational at the time. Most probably have below average IQ. I doubt that they think the way we do when they commit the crime. If they did, they'd be peaceful law abiding citizens like us, right?

 

To be sane and commit murder indicates that the perpertrator has little respect for human life. That is the problem. If we want to make the streets safer, that is what needs to be addressed.

 

And that is another reason why the death penalty is bad. It reinforces a view that life is cheap and disposable.

[Zeke]

Do you people honestly think life in prison is worse than death?

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Not in the US, 3 meals a day, bed to sleep on, workout stations, free education (alot of Pens have full libraries), no rent, no worries. Some have even pushed for free cable TV, religious content and other things that minimum wage workers can't even afford.

 

Not only that, but even a stay of execution costs the federal governemt millions each year between legal appeals, maintainence for insitutions, and housing. The minimum stay in just about any state is at least 5 years or more...

 

And that is another reason why the death penalty is bad.  It reinforces a view that life is cheap and disposable.

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So, it's ok that people who don't think life is golden can go out and kill people, while those who're to punish him/her for doing that, have to spare them? How does that makes sense? And no, they don't have lower than average IQ, some of the greatest murderers in history were very very cunning and tactful. Some weren't even arrested. Obviously the death penalty is bad, but there are some people who won't be rehabilitated no matter what. What alternatives are there when all else fails? We could always ship them off on some remote island nation... but that idea has already been used.

 

- Z

[MonteZuma]

Not in the US, 3 meals a day, bed to sleep on, workout stations, free education (alot of Pens have full libraries), no rent, no worries. Some have even pushed for free cable TV, religious content and other things that minimum wage workers can't even afford.

You left out the bits about violence, rape, AIDS, no privacy, loneliness, boredom, etc etc. I guess some inmates are lucky enough to avoid most of those things, but you are kidding yourself if you think that prison life is better than freedom.

 

Not only that, but even a stay of execution costs the federal governemt millions each year between legal appeals, maintainence for insitutions, and housing. The minimum stay in just about any state is at least 5 years or more...

Stays of execution save innocent or undeserving people from execution. Remove those and the safety net is gone. But, yes. Executing people is costly. It is cheaper to imprison people for life than it is to execute them. The only alternative is summary executions. But that would be ridiculous.

 

So, it's ok that people who don't think life is golden can go out and kill people,

People that think life is golden don't kill other people.

 

while those who're to punish him/her for doing that, have to spare them? How does that makes sense?

Because society as a whole is more just, intelligent, compassionate, and progressive.

 

And no, they don't have lower than average IQ, some of the greatest murderers in history were very very cunning and tactful.

You watch too much TV. Most people on death row have a below average education and are poor. Many have a history involving child abuse and/or psychological problems. They live(d) ugly lives that made it possible for them to do ugly things.

 

Obviously the death penalty is bad, but there are some people who won't be rehabilitated no matter what. What alternatives are there when all else fails? We could always ship them off on some remote island nation... but that idea has already been used.

Life imprisonment. Problem solved.