Kyoto Treaty

[MonteZuma]

Exactly. Even if the plan could work, the cure could be worse than the disease.

[MasterDrake]

a machine can only do what the programmer tells it to do, so say we program them to destroy all the g!@#$%^&*es trapped then self destruct. Its when AI and evil greedy thoughts come in that the machines would be bad. Nanotech is the future you can't stop it the soonest consumer product with nanotech in it will be out 2006.

 

Just imagine medical nanites in your blood stream always circulation like a super white blood cell able to destroy any virus and fix any discrepency such as a broken bone or ripped muscles or possibley for smokers your lungs(dead or crippled tissue).

[Phyran]

a machine can only do what the programmer tells it to do, so say we program them to destroy all the g!@#$%^&*es trapped then self destruct. Its when AI  and evil greedy thoughts come in that the machines would be bad. Nanotech is the future you can't stop it the soonest consumer product with nanotech in it will be out 2006.

 

Just imagine medical nanites in your blood stream always circulation like a super white blood cell able to destroy any virus and fix any discrepency such as a broken bone or ripped muscles or possibley for smokers your lungs(dead or crippled tissue).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

or turning into nano cancer cells and kill the host

[MasterDrake]

As I said before as long as AI isn't introduced they can only do what they are programmed for.

[MonteZuma]

If programmers were perfect, Windows 98 wouldn't need a blue screen of death. Machines do stuff their programmer or designer didn't intend all the time.

[Dav]

Could be is the opperative point, they also suggested dumping tons of green algae in the atlantic a while back.

 

And global warming is around us, the evedance to support it is overwhealming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

if i remember correctly green algae are like plants...uses oxygen at night...too much of it will choke the ocean of all oxygen...fishes and other living things will die

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

not quite, the ampout they will photsyntahise outweighes the resperation at night so overall they will reduce CO2

 

In an enviriment wit algae biuld up the O2 does drop because of the bacteria breaking down the dead algae consukming all the oxygen in the process, its a fine balance to have a stable system anyone that has maintaind a fish pond will tell you.

 

 

Alot of the time this nano crap isnt neccacary, nature is very good at looking after itself, its only us messing about with it thats is tipping the balance but if we cut emmisions and clean up our act a bit nature will be able to restore things over time.

 

I dont like the idea of AI, man hant learmnt its lessons of the past with the slave trade. People will make AI, use them as slaves just this time you are repressing things more inteligent and capable of rippimng sociaty apart. Good move...

[MonteZuma]

We should focus more effort on reducing pollution and consumption. We can enjoy the same quality of life without stuffing things up the way we do.

 

Curing the disease is usually cheaper and more effectove than treating the symptoms.

[Phyran]

We should focus more effort on reducing pollution and consumption.  We can enjoy the same quality of life without stuffing things up the way we do.

 

Curing the disease is usually cheaper and more effectove than treating the symptoms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

tell that to cancer, AIDS, alzhiemer's disease (spelling?), and other terminal illnesses

[Dav]

prevention is always better then cure.

 

Aids can be significantly reduced in the LEDC nations bu giving acces to contriseption and educating the people on the issue.

 

Cancer is a difficault one and cant be fully prevented but by taking care of things we consume it can go a long way.

 

alzhiemer's disease and other terminal illnesses we can do nothing about, buy hopefully the futre will breed new light on this.

 

 

The thing about the environment is that its not broken YET, there is damage but like alot of damage it can be fixed by us being sencible about what we do, the world has so many natural systems for dealing with these imbalaces but the strain is begging to be felt and this is why we must act now.

[MonteZuma]

Curing the disease is usually cheaper and more effectove than treating the symptoms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In any case, Dav is right. Many terminal illnesses are preventable. It is better to buy a lifetime's supply of sunscreen than treat a single case of skin cancer. It is better to buy a lifetime's supply of condoms than treat a single case of HIV/AIDS, etc, etc.

 

Prevention is better than cure. But that is not to say that treating problems and finding cures isn't also important.

[Aileron]

I don't know if the chemical processes that incur with plants have CO2 as the limiting reagent or if its ground minerals.

 

If C02 is, then our plantlife will naturally grow faster and handle the extra C02 naturally. This requires that ONE species of plant in the world has a surplus of minerals and a shortage of C02.

 

Generally the ecosystem sustains its own balance. If one force grows a counterforce grows and balances it out.

 

 

Mother nature is tougher than you think.

[Phyran]

tell that to the pigs, dogs, cats, and other feral animals that exterminated hundreds of species on small islands

[Dav]

these feral animals are there because of our interfearance, nature is usually good at stoping animals bing hwre they shouldnt as well.

 

Those anaimals cant unbderstand the damage they do, we can and thus its our responsibilty to deal with it.

[cgsfss]

I don't think humans can harm the enviorment, but that makes the whole treaty useless

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pls.. we do it every time we turn the keys to are cars. And cut down trees.

[Dav]

Spain is planning to biuld the largest sea wind farm which will double the amount of energy they get from wind (currentyl 5% of their total) It is designed to be sustainable with fish farming under the platforms prehaps.

 

It will cost alot of money but cut emmisions drastically, a good example to follow.

[Phyran]

until climate changes screw them over and they dont get any wind, not a very reliable source of energy

[MonteZuma]

Spain is planning to biuld the largest sea wind farm which will double the amount of energy they get from wind (currentyl 5% of their total)  It is designed to be sustainable with fish farming under the platforms prehaps.

Yeah. Those sorts of initiatives sound pretty good. They probably are. But I reckon it would be easier to cut electricity use by 5% than it is to build a new power plant.

 

The advantage of cutting power use (demand) instead of increasing supply is that we all save money and improve the environment at the same time.

[Dav]

until climate changes screw them over and they dont get any wind, not a very reliable source of energy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

and a climate change that stops the atlantic drifs will come as a result of inaction.

 

Here is what i dont understand about the us, in the liong run gree energy saves money, no consumable materials to buy for burning, just use nature. It brings prices of producing energy down which brings prices to customers down, a win win situation.

 

The problem is the inital cost, to go over 100% now would break any economy but gradually isnt a proble, star small and money saved can be used to biuld more green power generation systems.

[MonteZuma]

in the liong run gree energy saves money, no consumable materials to buy for burning, just use nature.  It brings prices of producing energy down which brings prices to customers down, a win win situation.

I think at the moment, green energy is more expensive than fossil fuel alternatives. In the future that might change, with improved technology and economies of scale. But for the foreseeable future, wind farms will not be as economical as coal power.

 

The problem is the inital cost, to go over 100% now would break any economy but gradually isnt a proble, star small and money saved can be used to biuld more green power generation systems.

I'm not sure that there are any cost savings. Of course if we internalise the external costs (costs !@#$%^&*ociated with pollution and environmental impact), the saving are likely to be huge. But nobody does this properly, yet.

 

But isn't the problem with wind power also the fact that wind is unreliable and wind turbines just don't generate the same amount of power as steam or hydraulic turbines?

[Aileron]

two words - Nuclear Power

[Phyran]

two words - Nuclear Power

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

two words - Nuclear Meltdown

[MonteZuma]

Took the words right out of my mouth Phyran. Nuclear energy is dirty energy.

[Aileron]

sigh...first off, a properly functioning Nuclear power plant creates no pollution. Also, we need to produce power in mass so solar collectors and windmills simply aren't going to be enough.

 

Maybe with development they could, but maybe with development we can make a nuclear power plant that doesn't melt down....oh wait...we have.

 

Modern nuclear power plants have ridiculous safety features. Unfortunately this requires a bit of trust, because half the features are only known on a need to know basis. However, the general pattern is usually features that are extremely solid. They make concrete walls that are incredibly thick...(they examined the possibility of planes crashing into TMI before 9/11...anything less than a jumbo jet would do nothing, and a 747 MIGHT get through the outer wall of the containment building, but not much farther.) Most of the safety systems, such as controll rods and emergency coolant function off of gravity. For example, controll rods are placed in a cylinder with electromagnets at the bottom. When they want to raise the rod, they increase power to the magnets. If the system malfunctions, the magnet will stop working and the rods will fall down by gravity. When was the last time you threw something in the air and it did not fall down? Does relying on gravity to pull things down sound reliable? Well that's not enough for the NRC, all reactors have atleast 2 (and usually 3 for anything bigger than a volkswagon) seperate systems of controll rods, each capable of stopping the reaction, and each with several redundant systems to ensure that they work properly.

 

The only two significant events in history are TMI and Chernobyl. TMI was a near miss, so it really doesn't count, except that it caused a lot of positive reform to the industry. Chernobyl was the only meltdown in history. But, that was only after the personell threw everything they know about nuclear safety out the window and rebuilt their reactor in such a way as to disable safety systems, basically in an attempt to m!@#$%^&* produce weapons grade plutonium.

[Dav]

nucular isnt as clean as its made out to be, the dangers of the waste cant be stressed enough and its very difficault to dispose of, it dumpls alot of hot water which can kill off ecosystems and it will increase the levels of background radiation.

 

Alot of research is going into it to reuse the plutonium but nothing yet so it is getting better.

[MasterDrake]

why not just put solar panels on everyones roofs it would be some much easier