»Maverick Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Posted December 1, 2004 How exactly is that stretching the limit?(and what is this limit you speak of?) Please enlighten me<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Raem, it takes alot of effort to recode the bot to do it the way you spoke off. Even then, it won't solve the problems. People don't want to switch by themselves. Considering the structure of the team evener, I doubt its even possible to have it do this. Akai listens to Maverick for bot advice!In his dreams I'm not infatuated with supposed limitations.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Then don't reply here anymore. Everything has limitations, also Mervbot and I can't help it. Alot of people already told you numerous of times that Mervbot is not able to see whether a player has bought bounce / super / bricks.
madhaha Posted December 1, 2004 Report Posted December 1, 2004 OMFG you idiot. You don't test to see if they've just bought stuff. You treat everyone the same. NOW can you work out how to write it?
Raem Posted December 1, 2004 Report Posted December 1, 2004 Yes, I'm sure people with high bounties won't want to switch themselves manually because they enjoy it when the bot "randomly" selects them. Ok, so maybe the bot won't be able to do that now, without someone actually putting work into it (because where's the fun in doing something right?), you could at least improve a bit on what you currently have. The bot is obviously capable of knowing who died last, and therefore who it will select to switch. The bot can also send messages. Why not have the bot (in addition to messaging the team) send the person who died last a private message, to warn them that they will be switched after the 30 seconds are up, and that if that person would like to preserve their bounty/bounce/whatever, then they better go to safety and switch themselves.
Yupa Posted December 1, 2004 Report Posted December 1, 2004 See what I mean? I give them solutions and they just keep posting the same crap. Must like bull!@#$%^&*ting more than coding.
madhaha Posted December 1, 2004 Report Posted December 1, 2004 One other way of doing it... "Teams are uneven. 100 bounty and super for the first person that switches"
»Maverick Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Posted December 1, 2004 You treat everyone the same<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't know what you are talking about. Its not like the bot treats people differently. "Teams are uneven. 100 bounty and super for the first person that switches"<{POST_SNAPBACK}>That will disturb game balance and gameplay Why not have the bot (in addition to messaging the team) send the person who died last a private message' date=' to warn them that they will be switched after the 30 seconds are up, and that if that person would like to preserve their bounty/bounce/whatever, then they better go to safety and switch themselves.[/quote']The bot changes the one who last dies AFTER the 30 seconds. It can be someone different then the one 30 seconds ago
Raem Posted December 1, 2004 Report Posted December 1, 2004 Why not have the bot (in addition to messaging the team) send the person who died last a private message' date=' to warn them that they will be switched after the 30 seconds are up' date=' and that if that person would like to preserve their bounty/bounce/whatever, then they better go to safety and switch themselves.[/quote'']The bot changes the one who last dies AFTER the 30 seconds. It can be someone different then the one 30 seconds ago<{POST_SNAPBACK}> So it only starts recording people's deaths after the 30 seconds have been announced? What happens if nobody died during those 30 seconds? Otherwise...Does it really matter that the bot only switches people because they died after the bot's 'warning'? I honestly don't believe the players will care, because, either: 1- The person switched will just spec and wait for someone else (a 'type 2' person) to get switched. This happens with this bot anyway, and cannot be fixed no matter what you do.2- The player switched will stay on the other team so that the teams are even. This kind of player does not need to be 'fixed'.3- The player with the ball is switched.4- The player switched has bounty/bounce. This problem can be solved by fixing the team evener.5- Samapico. Switches after teams are evened. Now, by just having the bot PM that extra message, you can provide a 'fix' for cases 3 and 4. Since any other solution would require too much effort to be implemented, why not just add this? Type 1 will just spec earlier, type 2 will change him/herself over, or will wait for the 30 second period to expire. Type 3 might just continue with the ball, p!@#$%^&* it to someone else, or take it the other way (if the team is truly balling, then there will be at least 1 other person around the ball to recover it). Type 4 will get to a safety zone and change teams so they don't lose what they have. It it not an amazing solution, but its simple to implement (that is what you're after, isn't it?) and relatively effective. Edit: Added type 5 for Sama's sake
Samapico Posted December 2, 2004 Report Posted December 2, 2004 add type 5 (me): Switches back 2 seconds after being switched by bot, since you can switch manually when teams are even...
Samapico Posted December 2, 2004 Report Posted December 2, 2004 The bot should not switch anyone if there is only 5 people or less ... It should only switch if there is a 3 players difference between both teams... (will bring difference to 1 player only after switching)
kentbrockman Posted December 2, 2004 Report Posted December 2, 2004 i like that idea... reward the person who switches. but i can see that as someone purposely joining the high-freqed team and waiting for the bot to say theres a problem... easy free bounce or whatnot.
»Maverick Posted December 2, 2004 Author Report Posted December 2, 2004 So it only starts recording people's deaths after the 30 seconds have been announced? What happens if nobody died during those 30 seconds? Otherwise...Does it really matter that the bot only switches people because they died after the bot's 'warning'?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>God you really dont understand it eh... The bot keeps a list of players of who died, per team. So there are two lists that the bot maintains. (two teams) Once someone dies, he gets added to the bottom of the list (of that team). As soon as the teams need to be evened AND the 30 seconds time period has passed that bot picks the last player (the player at the bottom of the list) of the desired team and evens him. If that player is not on the team, is not in a ship or just can't be found, it will pick the player before the current one in the list.If it can't find a player in the list (50 players per list) then it will even a player randomly. I doubt this will ever hapen. Finally, the bot removes the evened player from the list to avoid errors. So it DOESN'T record people's deaths after the 30 seconds have been announced. Anyway, I will try to change the team evener to do what you say, Raem. To conclude; the only problem with the team evener is the possible loss of bounty or ?buy'ed stuff.
Raem Posted December 2, 2004 Report Posted December 2, 2004 So it only starts recording people's deaths after the 30 seconds have been announced? What happens if nobody died during those 30 seconds? Otherwise...Does it really matter that the bot only switches people because they died after the bot's 'warning'?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>God you really dont understand it eh... The bot keeps a list of players of who died, per team. So there are two lists that the bot maintains. (two teams) Once someone dies, he gets added to the bottom of the list (of that team). As soon as the teams need to be evened AND the 30 seconds time period has passed that bot picks the last player (the player at the bottom of the list) of the desired team and evens him. If that player is not on the team, is not in a ship or just can't be found, it will pick the player before the current one in the list.If it can't find a player in the list (50 players per list) then it will even a player randomly. I doubt this will ever hapen. Finally, the bot removes the evened player from the list to avoid errors. So it DOESN'T record people's deaths after the 30 seconds have been announced. Anyway, I will try to change the team evener to do what you say, Raem. To conclude; the only problem with the team evener is the possible loss of bounty or ?buy'ed stuff.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wasn't sure exactly when the bot started recording deaths, which is why the 2nd part of my post !@#$%^&*umes that the bot be changed so that it can pick the player when the bot announces the uneven teams, and not after the 30 seconds are up. If it were left as it is, it obviously wouldn't work.
»Maverick Posted December 2, 2004 Author Report Posted December 2, 2004 If the bot picks the player that died last when the teams need to be evened (at the begin of the 30 seconds period) then it doesn't pick the last one that died; there will be another player that died in the 30 seconds period.
Raem Posted December 2, 2004 Report Posted December 2, 2004 I'm aware of that, but if you change it, then it will be changing the last person who died when the warning was issued, except the switch will be delayed 30 seconds
Yupa Posted December 2, 2004 Report Posted December 2, 2004 Coherence> why don't you fix the bot so it doesn't suck? Mav,_Veg,_&_Rifle> we can't because MERVBot doesn't have a shiny button that does it for us Coherence> oh, indeed, then do it this way, this way does work Mav,_Veg,_&_Rifle> we can't because MERVBot doesn't have a shiny button that does it for us Coherence> okay, you're lazy :p so then do it _this_ way, this way also works and will take less work Mav,_Veg,_&_Rifle> we can't because MERVBot doesn't have a shiny button that does it for us Coherence> ...um, you keep replying as if you weren't just given multiple solutions to the problem Mav,_Veg,_&_Rifle> we can't because MERVBot doesn't have a shiny button that does it for usyou guys are useless
»Maverick Posted December 2, 2004 Author Report Posted December 2, 2004 I'm aware of that, but if you change it, then it will be changing the last person who died when the warning was issued, except the switch will be delayed 30 seconds<{POST_SNAPBACK}>agreed. I will see what I can do Akai you are the useless one. People here are actually holding a usefull discussion about what is possible. Its not like we are giving same replies over and over. If you know it so well - Why don't you show its possible and do it yourself or else be quiet.
madhaha Posted December 2, 2004 Report Posted December 2, 2004 i like that idea... reward the person who switches. but i can see that as someone purposely joining the high-freqed team and waiting for the bot to say theres a problem... easy free bounce or whatnot.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Super lasts all of 15 seconds or so. Its not a HUGE advantage, even in a jav. The 100 bounty is just so you don't have to green all your shrap, attach bty, bursts or whatever again. While you might not want to switch if you've just bought bounce or if you're in the middle of a base war, its worth it if you've just joined or died (especially if you're a spider). You can't join an over populated freq anyway so the scope of abuse is quite narrow. Thats the carrot approach. The stick approach is something along the lines of: MODERATOR WARNING: SOMEONE SWITCH TEAMS NOW OR I'LL RESET THE ENTIRE FREQ'S SCORES AND BOUNTIES. THANKYOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION. I'm sure even Mav could program that one... I can almost hear the screaming now Akai: New RPG in the 17th rpg forum. Join now!
»Maverick Posted December 2, 2004 Author Report Posted December 2, 2004 rofl Thats the stuff! Giving super as a reward could unbalance the gameplay and allows abuse. The bounty is a good idea, indeed. Its easy to modify the bot so someone gets the bounty reward if they even the teams in the 30 second period. I like this better then "forcing" someone to even themselves when they are about to get evened. So.. whats it going to be? Bounty reward or early even notification?
Raem Posted December 2, 2004 Report Posted December 2, 2004 Bounty reward sounds pretty good, but you'll still need a backup in case nobody wants to switch (whole freq balling)
La Muerta Rosa Posted December 2, 2004 Report Posted December 2, 2004 The team evener is a nessesary evil to promote fair gameplay, leave it as the last person who died gets switched, and make it kick in when the teams are uneven by 3. Ignore the whiners, problem solved.
»Maverick Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Posted December 3, 2004 Bounty reward sounds pretty good, but you'll still need a backup in case nobody wants to switch (whole freq balling)<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Agreed, lets do both The team evener is a nessesary evil to promote fair gameplay, leave it as the last person who died gets switched, and make it kick in when the teams are uneven by 3. Ignore the whiners, problem solved.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>And have people (including you) get evened and loose their bounce / bounty? Because thats why we are talking about the team evener. If the team evener only switches by difference = 3 then teams of 20 vs 16 are possible which causes one freq to win always with balling / flagging.
La Muerta Rosa Posted December 3, 2004 Report Posted December 3, 2004 If you are not the last person who died, you wont get evened, so how could you ever lose a high bounty. Unless everyone on your team doesnt die for quite a while, you would never have enough time to get a high bounty. If you really want to safeguard against losing bounty/bounce though, put the power in the hands of the players, educate them to not start reccing/buying bounce until they see at least 1 person on thier team has died after thier last death. They wont get switched til they die, and at that point they wont have the bounty/bounce anymore anyway... I dont see the issue here. I think 3 player difference is a good middle ground between always keeping the teams as even as possible (and thus switching people constanty back and forth) and have no evener at all, and ending up with teams like 9 vs. 3 when a few people quit from one team. Edit: on second thought i can come up with a few senarios where you could still lose the bounce/bounty, they would be really rare though. I dont know what exactly is scriptable, but why not make it impossible to buy bounce with ?buy and instead make people buy them from the bot. That way you can have the bot maintain a list of who has bounce (remove them from list if they die, and other safeguards to prevent abuse obviously). That way if they get evened, the bot can just give them bounce back.
Samapico Posted December 3, 2004 Report Posted December 3, 2004 I just thought about something to avoid losing any bounty while being switched... just check the player's bounty when switched, then :%playername:*prize ... he'll get (X-30) greens to get his bounty back to what it was... the -30 is because of the 30 bounty he already has when spawning... Of course that does not change anything about bounce... but it would fix high bty switches... (even if they are NOT supposed to happen since it's last one who died... but they did happen in rare cases) On the other hand, I don't know if it's worth the coding for the rare case that it fixes... I think bring the minimumdifference to 3 with a certain minimum of players on team will make the bot a bit less 'hungry' for evening...
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