Dr Brain Posted November 18, 2004 Report Posted November 18, 2004 Ripped from another source. I didn't write this. Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that everyday, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. Ifthey paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something likethis: The first four men -- the poorest -- would pay nothing; the fifth wouldpay $1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth$18, and the tenth man -- the richest -- would pay $59. That's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurantevery day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement -- until one day,the owner threw them a curve (in tax language a tax cut). "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce thecost of your daily meal by $20." So now dinner for the ten only cost$.00. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So thefirst four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But whatabout the other six -- the paying customers? How could they divvy up the$20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?" The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if theysubtracted that from everybody's share, Then the fifth man and the sixthman would end up being PAID to eat their meal. So the restaurant ownersuggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly thesame amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventhpaid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth manwith a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was betteroff than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings."I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man who pointedto the tenth. "But he got $7!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man, "I only saved a dollar, too. . . It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!". "That's true!" shouted the seventh man, "why should he get $7 back when Igot only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "We didn't getanything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night hedidn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. Butwhen it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what wasvery important. They were FIFTY-TWO DOLLARS short of paying the bill!Imagine that! And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how thetax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the mostbenefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for beingwealthy, and they just may not show up at the table any more.
MasterDrake Posted November 18, 2004 Report Posted November 18, 2004 you forgot to mention that ppl on welfare get like 4 grand back for sitting on their lazy !@#$%^&*'s and exploiting the system.
Raem Posted November 18, 2004 Report Posted November 18, 2004 Ripped from another source. I didn't write this.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
MonteZuma Posted November 18, 2004 Report Posted November 18, 2004 ...And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how thetax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the mostbenefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for beingwealthy, and they just may not show up at the table any more.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>For the sake of discussion... That really isn't how the tax system works.... The rich and the poor do not eat at the same table. The rich take profits because they own the friggin restaurant. If you can't pay for the meal they call the cops. The poor would be the one's pouring the wine and washing the dishes. Not eating the meals. In general, the poor do not exploit the rich. Usually it's the other way around.
»Ducky Posted November 19, 2004 Report Posted November 19, 2004 There is a large misconception in the states about taxes. Anyone I personally talk to always mentions that the rich aren't taxed enough. Please. They are taxed so highly that I have voted in favor of decreases on numerous occasions.
MonteZuma Posted November 19, 2004 Report Posted November 19, 2004 If the rich actually paid the top tax rate I might agree with you Ducky. But the rich have the means to avoid a lot of tax - a lot more than low and middle income earners can avoid. I doubt that it would be unusual for the super rich to pay less than 10 or 20 cents in the dollar tax by being clever about when and where they invest or spend their income.
Dr.Worthless Posted November 19, 2004 Report Posted November 19, 2004 Wealthy taxpayers did get huge benefits from the Bush tax cuts, but on average they still pay far higher rates than middle-income salaried workers. Estimates by the Tax Policy Center , for example, show that the average federal income-tax rate for persons with income of more than $1 million per year will decline to just under 26% by the time the cuts take full effect in 2006. That’s a rate more than two-and-a-half times higher than for the teachers, secretaries and cops whose incomes fall between $40,000 and $50,000 a year, whose average rate will fall to less than 9 percent. Source Factcheck.org The rich still pay far more in taxes $$ wise. We shouldn't be concerned with a %, because the government doesn't run on %, they run on cold hard cash. If you consider #'s, the rich carry the biggest burden, which they always have.
Dr Brain Posted November 19, 2004 Author Report Posted November 19, 2004 The top 5% of tax payers pay % of all taxes.
Himura Kenshin Posted November 20, 2004 Report Posted November 20, 2004 all i know is i dont htink anyone should get a tax break not now when we are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo in debt i think there should be a slight increase to pay it off IMHO
»CypherJF Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 Well not only are we in debt; we've lent billions of dollars to several countries, who in essence, will never pay them back.
»Ducky Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 We are in debt because of those loans.We have had to borrow from the chinese of late
Yupa Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 I think it's !@#$%^&*ing hilarious how not evena month after they re-elect Bush all the Republicans are flipping the !@#$%^&* out over the deficit and Greenspan is saying "omfg you're all gonna die you poor dumb ASSS you". !@#$%^&*ing Republicans, every time. They're like the dumb !@#$%^&*ing teammates that always get you killed.
MonteZuma Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 We are in debt because of those loans.We have had to borrow from the chinese of late<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm not sure about that. I suspect military spending and tax cuts might have more to do with it. When you compare US loans to others against US borrowings from others, the US is still almost $2 Trillion in debt. Half of all US taxes go to repaying debt. Tax cuts are the last thing the US needs. Is it any surprise that the Euro has been outperforming the US dollar?
»Ducky Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 My statement was in no way, shape or form meant to imply that was the only reason we were in debt :-p
Dr Brain Posted November 22, 2004 Author Report Posted November 22, 2004 If the rich actually paid the top tax rate I might agree with you Ducky. But the rich have the means to avoid a lot of tax - a lot more than low and middle income earners can avoid. I doubt that it would be unusual for the super rich to pay less than 10 or 20 cents in the dollar tax by being clever about when and where they invest or spend their income.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I suspect military spending and tax cuts might have more to do with it.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're a moron. You have all the facts in front of you. The tax cut increased revenue.
MonteZuma Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 You're a moron.You're childish. You have all the facts in front of you.Republican dogma does not equal facts. The tax cut increased revenue.No it didn't. But they do help buy votes from dumb voters.
Dr Brain Posted November 22, 2004 Author Report Posted November 22, 2004 No it didn't. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It didn't? Please, inform me.
MonteZuma Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 No it didn't. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It didn't? Please, inform me.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>You should inform yourself rather than rely on others. This is a good starting point:http://www.heritage.org/research/features/...k/fed_spend.pdf Hint: Compare the Reagan and Clinton years.
Dr Brain Posted November 22, 2004 Author Report Posted November 22, 2004 http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm182.cfm http://www.heritage.org/Research/taxes/bg1414.cfm
»CypherJF Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 Let's not start comparing the reagon vs clinton vs bush's years; as they each had their own time and place (different situations). I didn't know we borrowed from the Chineese but it doesn't surprise me how they've been making boat loads of money from the amount of US relations er transactions that have occured. Also, as I was discussing w/ my roommate the other day, I feel the Euro will sooner or later out perform the US dollar, because of how they have the EU setup; where each country must meet specific economic requirements. I forget the whole details now, but the debt is shared amongst many nations, not just one. (i think, feel free to correct me.) ttfn I also want to throw this in here, tax cuts is not we need. Even so that "rebate" we got was taxable. As one episode of the West Wing, they were talking about how the tax "rebate" is more like an "advance" because you end up paying for it sooner or later. Anywho..
MonteZuma Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm182.cfm http://www.heritage.org/Research/taxes/bg1414.cfm<{POST_SNAPBACK}>If you really want to understand an issue yourself you should learn the value of raw data and primary sources. As a wise man once said:The ability of economists to !@#$%^&*ess the effects of tax and spending programs is hindered by an incomplete understanding of the forces influencing the economy. Also:In part, the recent deficits have resulted from the economic downturn in 2001 and the period of slow growth that followed, as well as the sharp declines in equity prices. The deficits also reflect a significant step-up in spending on defense and higher outlays for homeland security and many other nondefense discretionary programs. Tax reductions--some of which were intended specifically to provide stimulus to the economy--also contributed to the deterioration of the fiscal balance. tax cuts are the last thing the US needs right now.
Dr Brain Posted November 22, 2004 Author Report Posted November 22, 2004 http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm182.cfm http://www.heritage.org/Research/taxes/bg1414.cfm<{POST_SNAPBACK}>If you really want to understand an issue yourself you should learn the value of raw data and primary sources. As a wise man once said:The ability of economists to !@#$%^&*ess the effects of tax and spending programs is hindered by an incomplete understanding of the forces influencing the economy. Also:In part, the recent deficits have resulted from the economic downturn in 2001 and the period of slow growth that followed, as well as the sharp declines in equity prices. The deficits also reflect a significant step-up in spending on defense and higher outlays for homeland security and many other nondefense discretionary programs. Tax reductions--some of which were intended specifically to provide stimulus to the economy--also contributed to the deterioration of the fiscal balance. tax cuts are the last thing the US needs right now.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Primary sources? I used the same site you did. And quotes mean nothing. I could quote myself saying you're a moron, but it doesn't make it true.
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