Tenet Posted November 5, 2004 Report Posted November 5, 2004 What is subspace? What makes it unique and different from other games? In my personal opinion - its all about the settings and the game balance. - Lifelike movement where you are fast enough for intense action, yet slow enough to have time to think ahead. - Energy Management - life energy is used as ammo for weapons, which can quite quickly recharge to full or be wasted while shooting. - Demanding Controls - 2D physics that require superior hand coordination and experience to effectively move your ship around ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subspace 3D concept: - Subspace like gameplay in a trully 3D environment ------------------------------------------------------------------- Problem: A 3D environment involves a surge in difficulty of orientation, manual flight and targetting. Solutions Concept: To keep the game playable some controls have to be automated and the physical engine should have restrictions. Specific Control solutions: 1. Automatic Single-Axis targetting system - There will be a line going vertically accross the screen, when matched withe the 'calculated' vector line of the enemy's movement, the guns will automatically adjust themselves along this axis. Instead of the usual system of matching a crosshair with the enemy and applying a displacement correction - only one axis of that crosshair will have to be matched and the displacement correction will be applied automatically along that axis. 2. Automatic formations: several ships can select and 'attach' themselves to a leader. That ship will be able to select a formation, which the others will automatically match. The leader will be able to adjust formation settings: a. fixed - all ships follow the leaders vector in fixed position and have limited ability to alter their cone of fire b. elastic - similar to fixed except ships will be able to turn in any direction to fire, as long as the leader doesn't change the direction of movement - if that happens each member ship will automatically try to adjust itself and re-match formation. The farther each ship breaks from formation, the less will be the pilots ability to override its direction. c. free - ships are only limited by distance from the leader, and in case they separate beyond a certain limit, an automatic system will gradually override the direction of flight to match the leader. 3. Limited top speed with overdrive ability - ships will have variable, but simlarly low top speed and the ability to accelerate beyond it at increasing cost of energy.Flight must be 'slow' - and feel more like floating in a liquid then in 'space'. The sci-fi explanation could be that its a property of Subspace, different then Space. There should be a certain delay between firing the thrusters and experiencing the directional changes. The main goal is to keep the game slow enough to allow for thought, teamwork, and flight skill depth. 4. Hybrid - Thruster Based - Control: Hand on the mouse - used to set the direction of a crosshair and control weapons When this direction is set, a button can be used to automatically change the flight vector, with same speed maintained. Hand on the keyboard - directional buttons used to control four 'strafe' action thrusters, buttons for main thrust and reverse thrust. The movement of the ship may be slow, but controlling it will require the use of both hands and will be 'manual' enough to have great depth of kill. 5. Torpedoes - bombs should be aimed like guns and have a _limited_ tracking capability, to balance the increased aiming difficulty. Idea on game implementation: Instead of wasting time on Programming a new 3D engine, Subspace3D should be implemented as a Mod to an existing, or developing, game. For example: Subspace 3D can be a Mod for VegaStrikehttp://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/ Main reasons to make 3D Subspace: 1. Gameplay that feels more 'realistic', increasing the fun2. Attract more gamers - some simply don't tolerate 2D3. Reduce dependance on resolution and screen size
MillenniumMan Posted November 6, 2004 Report Posted November 6, 2004 Early on, when T4 and I were looking for premade 3D engines, I found a game called vendetta, which was "THE PERFECT" engine for what we wanted to do with SS3D. Sadly, everything from the server software to models and stuff were and still are a closely guarded secret. If it weren't for that we'd have a very superior product by now. Personaly I didn't even know vega strike existed until now. Thanks for pointing it out. If it's easy to work with and can run faster than our engine we're using now, it may become the defacto replacement engine for any and all future work. Problem is I didn't see anything about MMP like with good old subspace. Seems like 168mb might be a bit too much for most users though. As is, the compiled and running CNL is only a couple of MB in size. Vegastrike might be too much of a hassle for most SS (or other) dialup fans to get their hands on with it being so large. Mabey the compiled version of CNL with the vega engine might be smaller? What is subspace? What makes it unique and different from other games? In my personal opinion - its all about the settings and the game balance. - Lifelike movement where you are fast enough for intense action, yet slow enough to have time to think ahead. - Energy Management - life energy is used as ammo for weapons, which can quite quickly recharge to full or be wasted while shooting. - Demanding Controls - 2D physics that require superior hand coordination and experience to effectively move your ship around ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subspace 3D concept: - Subspace like gameplay in a trully 3D environment ------------------------------------------------------------------- Problem: A 3D environment involves a surge in difficulty of orientation, manual flight and targetting. Solutions Concept: To keep the game playable some controls have to be automated and the physical engine should have restrictions. Specific Control solutions: 1. Automatic Single-Axis targetting system - There will be a line going vertically accross the screen, when matched withe the 'calculated' vector line of the enemy's movement, the guns will automatically adjust themselves along this axis. Instead of the usual system of matching a crosshair with the enemy and applying a displacement correction - only one axis of that crosshair will have to be matched and the displacement correction will be applied automatically along that axis. 2. Automatic formations: several ships can select and 'attach' themselves to a leader. That ship will be able to select a formation, which the others will automatically match. The leader will be able to adjust formation settings: a. fixed - all ships follow the leaders vector in fixed position and have limited ability to alter their cone of fire b. elastic - similar to fixed except ships will be able to turn in any direction to fire, as long as the leader doesn't change the direction of movement - if that happens each member ship will automatically try to adjust itself and re-match formation. The farther each ship breaks from formation, the less will be the pilots ability to override its direction. c. free - ships are only limited by distance from the leader, and in case they separate beyond a certain limit, an automatic system will gradually override the direction of flight to match the leader. 3. Limited top speed with overdrive ability - ships will have variable, but simlarly low top speed and the ability to accelerate beyond it at increasing cost of energy.Flight must be 'slow' - and feel more like floating in a liquid then in 'space'. The sci-fi explanation could be that its a property of Subspace, different then Space. There should be a certain delay between firing the thrusters and experiencing the directional changes. The main goal is to keep the game slow enough to allow for thought, teamwork, and flight skill depth. 4. Hybrid - Thruster Based - Control: Hand on the mouse - used to set the direction of a crosshair and control weapons When this direction is set, a button can be used to automatically change the flight vector, with same speed maintained. Hand on the keyboard - directional buttons used to control four 'strafe' action thrusters, buttons for main thrust and reverse thrust. The movement of the ship may be slow, but controlling it will require the use of both hands and will be 'manual' enough to have great depth of kill. 5. Torpedoes - bombs should be aimed like guns and have a _limited_ tracking capability, to balance the increased aiming difficulty. Idea on game implementation: Instead of wasting time on Programming a new 3D engine, Subspace3D should be implemented as a Mod to an existing, or developing, game. For example: Subspace 3D can be a Mod for VegaStrikehttp://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/ Main reasons to make 3D Subspace: 1. Gameplay that feels more 'realistic', increasing the fun2. Attract more gamers - some simply don't tolerate 2D3. Reduce dependance on resolution and screen size<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dav Posted November 6, 2004 Report Posted November 6, 2004 Early on, when T4 and I were looking for premade 3D engines, I found a game called vendetta, which was "THE PERFECT" engine for what we wanted to do with SS3D. Sadly, everything from the server software to models and stuff were and still are a closely guarded secret. If it weren't for that we'd have a very superior product by now. Personaly I didn't even know vega strike existed until now. Thanks for pointing it out. If it's easy to work with and can run faster than our engine we're using now, it may become the defacto replacement engine for any and all future work. Problem is I didn't see anything about MMP like with good old subspace. Seems like 168mb might be a bit too much for most users though. As is, the compiled and running CNL is only a couple of MB in size. Vegastrike might be too much of a hassle for most SS (or other) dialup fans to get their hands on with it being so large. Mabey the compiled version of CNL with the vega engine might be smaller? What is subspace? What makes it unique and different from other games? In my personal opinion - its all about the settings and the game balance. - Lifelike movement where you are fast enough for intense action, yet slow enough to have time to think ahead. - Energy Management - life energy is used as ammo for weapons, which can quite quickly recharge to full or be wasted while shooting. - Demanding Controls - 2D physics that require superior hand coordination and experience to effectively move your ship around ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subspace 3D concept: - Subspace like gameplay in a trully 3D environment ------------------------------------------------------------------- Problem: A 3D environment involves a surge in difficulty of orientation, manual flight and targetting. Solutions Concept: To keep the game playable some controls have to be automated and the physical engine should have restrictions. Specific Control solutions: 1. Automatic Single-Axis targetting system - There will be a line going vertically accross the screen, when matched withe the 'calculated' vector line of the enemy's movement, the guns will automatically adjust themselves along this axis. Instead of the usual system of matching a crosshair with the enemy and applying a displacement correction - only one axis of that crosshair will have to be matched and the displacement correction will be applied automatically along that axis. 2. Automatic formations: several ships can select and 'attach' themselves to a leader. That ship will be able to select a formation, which the others will automatically match. The leader will be able to adjust formation settings: a. fixed - all ships follow the leaders vector in fixed position and have limited ability to alter their cone of fire b. elastic - similar to fixed except ships will be able to turn in any direction to fire, as long as the leader doesn't change the direction of movement - if that happens each member ship will automatically try to adjust itself and re-match formation. The farther each ship breaks from formation, the less will be the pilots ability to override its direction. c. free - ships are only limited by distance from the leader, and in case they separate beyond a certain limit, an automatic system will gradually override the direction of flight to match the leader. 3. Limited top speed with overdrive ability - ships will have variable, but simlarly low top speed and the ability to accelerate beyond it at increasing cost of energy.Flight must be 'slow' - and feel more like floating in a liquid then in 'space'. The sci-fi explanation could be that its a property of Subspace, different then Space. There should be a certain delay between firing the thrusters and experiencing the directional changes. The main goal is to keep the game slow enough to allow for thought, teamwork, and flight skill depth. 4. Hybrid - Thruster Based - Control: Hand on the mouse - used to set the direction of a crosshair and control weapons When this direction is set, a button can be used to automatically change the flight vector, with same speed maintained. Hand on the keyboard - directional buttons used to control four 'strafe' action thrusters, buttons for main thrust and reverse thrust. The movement of the ship may be slow, but controlling it will require the use of both hands and will be 'manual' enough to have great depth of kill. 5. Torpedoes - bombs should be aimed like guns and have a _limited_ tracking capability, to balance the increased aiming difficulty. Idea on game implementation: Instead of wasting time on Programming a new 3D engine, Subspace3D should be implemented as a Mod to an existing, or developing, game. For example: Subspace 3D can be a Mod for VegaStrikehttp://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/ Main reasons to make 3D Subspace: 1. Gameplay that feels more 'realistic', increasing the fun2. Attract more gamers - some simply don't tolerate 2D3. Reduce dependance on resolution and screen size<{POST_SNAPBACK}><{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unless a webinstaller can be used that allows it to be downloaded over multiple sessions.
Tenet Posted November 7, 2004 Author Report Posted November 7, 2004 3D subspace will never be able to work on 56K connections. Considering the above, downloading 200 megabites using BitTorrent should take less then an hour on most other connections.Like you mentioned, the actual download can be even smaller if its optimized to have just what is needed for the mod. Its open-source, you can modify it.
The Maurauder Posted November 11, 2004 Report Posted November 11, 2004 1) Most people won't want to fool with installing VS to play CTM. (Stated above)2) Simply modding another game will be considered lame by most.3) Running off other programs not designed specifically for what you are doing can cause many problems.4) I installed VS to see how it ran on my computer, it was "As slow as mol!@#$%^&*es going uphill on a cold day." I have a mid-range video card and processor. If it runs this slow on my computer, i don't want to even think about how it will run on peoples with slower processors and older video cards.
Tenet Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Posted December 1, 2004 1) Most people won't want to fool with installing VS to play CTM. (Stated above)2) Simply modding another game will be considered lame by most.3) Running off other programs not designed specifically for what you are doing can cause many problems.4) I installed VS to see how it ran on my computer, it was "As slow as mol!@#$%^&*es going uphill on a cold day." I have a mid-range video card and processor. If it runs this slow on my computer, i don't want to even think about how it will run on peoples with slower processors and older video cards.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1. VS is open source solution - you can get involved, get access to source and do whatever you like with it - like removing all the data files for unwanted graphics/levels etc, and making sure your own are optimized. The installation package of SubspaceVS can be an optimized .exe file and easy to use. 2. Lame? Re-inventing the wheel is stupid if it can be avoided. Unless you start a whole new opensource progect (see other thread) creating a mod is the best solution. 3. Creating a game from nothing can cause problems too. Who said VS is the only availiable platform anyway? How about a Half-Life subspace 3d mod? How about seriously searching for the best moddable game availiable and see if there are good results? 4. You probably ran it on best settings. I ran VS on the below-average (not-minimal) settings on a PIII 800mhz with 256mb and a crappy old TNT2 32mb gfx card. It gave a steady FPS and no "jumping". Try the minimal settings and show your PC stats, maybe you configured something wrong. Modifying an existing game can be much easier then creating a new game from nearly nothing. Just find the right platform to start with and a team of developers, perhaps even outside of subspace, who would like the idea.
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