Bacchus Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 50%, the answer that you seek is : we discuss politics because we can and because we want. You don't like it, beat it. It's written "political discussion". Hence we discuss. USA is the only superpower in the world. It's overruling pretty much anything others tries to build and/or destroy. It has adopted interventionists (ical?) policies that affect the world at large...and you expect people to turn around saying: " oooh, that's nothing honey, just some yankees playing with guns"?
MasterDrake Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Yes it says political dicussion not, "Lets talk badly about everything in the USA" or "US Politics", the simple point I am trying to make it stop focusing soley on the US there are other things going on in the world beside what happens here, for instance do you know that China blocks all Websites that would interfere with the way they do business and will not let there citizens talk about things like we do.
»Ducky Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 yea, old news though...heh Has anyone ever glimpsed at the ratio of people on this forum and the countries they are from? Say on average6 Regular Americans2 Brits1 Korean2 Canadians, blah blah1 xxx3 xxx Of course 90% of the topics will be on the US and it seems as though we are always attacked. We are hardly attacked every single post, it is just your arrogance that makes you think we are. A different opinion isn't automatically an assault on the very fabric of our nation.
Arianax Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Like it or not America be the most powerful country in the world, so it is quite important to other country people ( ala me) who gets elected. Anyway its interesting to see how you guys do it, our elections are really boring in comparison. then again we've got Howard and Blair.... fun.
»Ducky Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Yea, it is total popularity bull!@#$%^&*.Kerry FlipFlops.Bush went into Iraq the wrong way. Main arguements, which don't stand up anyways. At the time, the decision to go into iraq and do more cleanup was good.Everyone was all up for killing terrorists. Now we are telling him he was wrong? And the same bull!@#$%^&* with Kerry too.Most of his opinions have changed over a 5 year period.As happens with anyone who is willing to flow with time.
Paine Posted October 4, 2004 Author Report Posted October 4, 2004 ...I'm from the UK, and I still give a !@#$%^&*... btw, there are elections in Britain due soon, but I dont post them because frankly, whoever we get, we're !@#$%^&*ed.
MonteZuma Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Really, how does anyone being elected in the United States affect you if you don't live her?US economic and foreign policy affects just about everyone. If you can't see how, you mustn't have a television set - and you must never read a newspaper. Have you ever heard the phrase "when the US sneezes, the world catches a cold"? I will make special exceptions if you live in Iraq and countries that the US directly effects but on average you will never be directly affected by any of the US policies.Most countries are indirectly affected. People who actually have a life get laid and !@#$%^&*, no time for chatting with 16year olds that jerk off all day.Is that why you are here? If you are from another country, get off America's nuts.The US steps on more nuts than any other country atm. None of us want your opinion nor care what you think.GWB seemed to care. he spent a lot of time and effort trying to con other countries into supporting the US hairbrained plans for Iraq. And by Americans i mean people that live in the US; canadians are wannabe frenchies and all mexicans pretty much have a 2nd home in california. I hope all this pisses off anyone who disagrees, truthfully i disagree with what im ranting about but i enjoy making you idiots respond to all the crap that i write. No one's opinion is going to change so there is NO point in arguing about politics on a SS board full of kids whose balls havent dropped yet.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't think you are pissing anyone off here, but you are giving a good demonstration of the kind of at-*BAD WORD*-ude that makes people feel like flying jet planes into your buildings. GG.
MonteZuma Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Yes it says political dicussion not, "Lets talk badly about everything in the USA" or "US Politics", the simple point I am trying to make it stop focusing soley on the US there are other things going on in the world beside what happens here, for instance do you know that China blocks all Websites that would interfere with the way they do business and will not let there citizens talk about things like we do.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>You want to talk about something else? Start a new thread ....
»Ducky Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 I don't think you are pissing anyone off here, but you are giving a good demonstration of the kind of at-*BAD WORD*-ude that makes people feel like flying jet planes into your buildings. GG.Pwnt
Bacchus Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 http://lemondedejb.free.fr/archives%20fichiers%20et%20trucs%20marrants/images%20marrantes/imnotamerican.jpg
50% Packetloss Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 montezuma, its time to retire your gay avitar. I cant believe you have the free time to quote everything i said, like somehow what i say matters. Go get your baby stolen by a dingo, or whatever you aussie pussies do. I believe you are the only aussie !@#$%^&* ive encountered, the rest of your nation are big knife slinging bad-!@#$%^&*es like Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin. Im sure you weren't breast fed or something, there is oviously something wrong if you think there is any reason for 3000 people to die all at once. I hope that you choke on the next !@#$%^&* that you suck. My main and only point is that there are MORE than 2 canidates on the ballot. Just because there is a 2 party system doesnt mean that you cant open your mind enough to consider another canidate. Its apparent that both Kerry and Bush are !@#$%^&*ing crazy, a 3rd choice is the only sane route. I dont believe that a citizen can "waste" a vote. I probably wont vote for Nader, although he is probably the only honest of the top 3 he is nuts too, but ill consider the other canidates and what they are looking to change.
»Ducky Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 Ummm..Voting for a 3rd party in this specific election is a waste of a vote.
MonteZuma Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 montezuma, its time to retire your gay avitar. I cant believe you have the free time to quote everything i said, like somehow what i say matters.Anyone without serious intellectual impairment can highlight text and click the quote button in just a few seconds. Go get your baby stolen by a dingo, or whatever you aussie pussies do. I believe you are the only aussie !@#$%^&* ive encountered, the rest of your nation are big knife slinging bad-!@#$%^&*es like Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin.You watch too much of the wrong kind of television. Im sure you weren't breast fed or something, there is oviously something wrong if you think there is any reason for 3000 people to die all at once. I hope that you choke on the next !@#$%^&* that you suck.Nice. You are much more skillful at potty-mouth insults than you are at political discussion. My main and only point is that there are MORE than 2 canidates on the ballot. Just because there is a 2 party system doesnt mean that you cant open your mind enough to consider another canidate. Its apparent that both Kerry and Bush are !@#$%^&*ing crazy, a 3rd choice is the only sane route. I dont believe that a citizen can "waste" a vote. I probably wont vote for Nader, although he is probably the only honest of the top 3 he is nuts too, but ill consider the other canidates and what they are looking to change.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>You probably have a valid point here. Too bad you drowned it out with a paragraph of schoolyard insults.
Aileron Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 Well, he is right...ur avatar is kinda gay. Mine needs to retire too, but I'm too lazy. Wait...I have better things to do than worry about a stupid avatar. Ducky u are right in that the US isn't insulted with every post...just every topic. It is ridiculous. Russia just did away with the democratic process and there wasn't a peep...just the same old bull!@#$%^&* about why the US shouldn't have gone into Iraq. And forget about us caring about insulting anyone else at this point. The non-socialists in this forum have been insulted way too much for us to be nice now...our leaders and our government has been publically mocked without withstraint for, well, since before I came to these forums. I personally have been called ignorant, arrogant, "typical american", been protrayed as a cultist, and many worse things, just for being a MODERATE. I'm not even conservative! However, the personal attacks I have recieved are light. What's worse is that everything I have believed in has been mocked on these forums. My religion has been labeled ficticious and compaired to a fairy tale. If I could kill the people who said specifically those comments, I would without guilt....I mean that in the literal sense. The parents of these individuals should be ashamed of themselves for not teaching their children manners. My country has been mocked almost constantly. There is ALWAYs an active anti-US topic in this forum. You have called us greedy and careless, have made sterotypical comments of our citizens, have publicized every conspiracy theories you can concoct, have made the claim over and over that 3000 of our citizens deserved to die, view terrorists as partially justified, pointed out how the US should adopt other nation's socialist policy (like Canada's 'wonderfull" wait 3 years for emergency treatment health care system), and have even made the claim that we caused Sept. 11th ourselves! Of all of these, its the terrorists partially justifed part that really boils me over. You hate our citizens so much that you side with terrorists when they kill our civilians, then criticise Bush for going against world opinion. World opinion approves the slaughter of our civilians - you view Sept 11th as partially justified! We shouldn't consider your kind allies, let alone listen to you...you would rather have our citizens killed than face the fact that atlease one kind of anti-Americanism is wrong. If I wasn't a math nerd and useless in combat, I would have joined the army and would be fighting in Iraq. I would die for the country that you guys arrogantly mock. I'm sure you people would die for your countries as well. I also have a resonable respect for my President. He is an honorable man who has served this country for years in many ways. While his policy isn't without fault, he deserves an amount of respect this forum hasn't given. If you aren't going to respect the man, atleast respect the position. It is a very painfull job - all presidents in the history of recording have greyed during their terms. After all this, you criticise him for stuttering speech (most of it stems from him not liking something in a pre-written speech), for choking on a pretzel, tripping every once in a while, etc. If you don't like Bush's policy, atleast keep your criticism intellectual because of his service. Look, how many conservative Americans have shown up for a month, got disgusted, and left? I've lost count. This evidence should speak for itself. The only reason I stay is because I cannot stand the thought of you people being happy. And after all that, do you think I give a !@#$%^&* when one Aussie is called a homosexual? I'll infact add to it...because I feel like it. Monte, you are stupid !@#$%^&* flinging ape whose entire life consists of two activities: waste your time on this forum, and participation in anal sex with kangaroos. I doubt you are like anything like Crocodile Dundee...Crocodile Dundee was attracted to women, had functional muscles, and could survive outside an air-conditioned environment. The only decent thing that ever came out of your country was that no-name swimmer last olympics, and Phelps kicked his !@#$%^&*! I don't want to see any one of you cry insult again. I've put up with more than enough from you people to care. Bush has made his criticism of Kerry slightly more complicated than flip-flop. He pointed out that Kerry viewed the Iraq war as a "mistake" and that the coalition was "coerced or bribed", and then expects other nations to join. Why would you want to sign on to a "mistake" and be in a group labled as "coerced or bribed"? Kerry has no respect for foreigners who grew up a little and decided to make the most of the cituation. Since the debate, Poland, whose sacrifices Kerry ignored, is considering withdrawing from Iraq. It seems like the traditional flip-flop arguement...but it is actually something different. Kerry doesn't comprehend that his statements have consequences. Statements like the ones Kerry make only decrease our morale and increase the morale of our enemies. And no, the two-party system is okay. The problem is the lack of meaningfull primaries. Its more like the party high-ups choosing a candidate than the populace. The primaries should be more important than the secondary elections, hence why they are called "primary". In the primary elections, people have a choice who they preferr out of many candidates, and the existence of a secondary election is only supposed to prevent parties from being split. The problem is that the party br!@#$%^&* selects the winner of the primaries, and the populace only comes in play during the secondaries. The only problem I see in elections is apathetic morons who don't vote. People need to vote, and not just in the secondary presidential elections. The system only works if the population votes in every election.
Bacchus Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 yea, Ail has emotions too, people got to respect that if nothing else. Sorry, if you felt personnally insulted. I saw a lot of posts here that were sensitive and relevant informations. Those forums are lucky to have some "non-lazy" posters. Too bad, you didn't like, appreciate and/or use the info has inputs for your own perspectives. btw, i resent Live-Wire disappearance...his interventions were enlightening. Though i didn't always agree, i could at least see some consistencies or have a good idea of the contexts in which some policies took place. I've learned many things about USA and the world here since i have firsthand contact with some people from around the world. This is what discusson is about, no? kill somoene because he said your religion was a fairy tale? Then spank his parents for bad education?! Who do you think you are? Some Higher Moral Minister? need to go now.
Zetirix Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 (edited) The only problem I see in elections is apathetic morons who don't vote.  People need to vote, and not just in the secondary presidential elections. The system only works if the population votes in every election.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> As a non-voter, of the younger generation of "able" voters... I am not voting because key issues that actually matter to me aren't addressed this election. Let's say #1 is jobs... which translates into economy. Economy is in a simple term, movement of money from different sources. Jobs pay money for work done. In my state of residence, which was one of the nations leading manufacturing states, there's an overall 4+% of unemployment due to jobs leaving the state/country. Next, let's talk schools (#2). When you see a 6th grader coming out of class at 3 pm swearing like a Navy man, there's problems that need to be addressed. Not to mention the increase of tution rates in post-secondary schools, making them less affordable than ever. #3, the war, tired of hearing it, and it only matters to me because every day there's a letter coming to an American home saying that their boy isn't coming home alive because of a) an carbomb, b ) some crazed religious nut with no mind of his own, or c) some idiot from his own unit shot him (face it, friendly fire happens). Yes, people need to vote... but if you look at the final tally from the election 4 years ago, you will see that alot of peoples' votes didn't count, simply based on where they lived. Bush lost the popular vote, but still was elected, and you expect people like me to believe in a system that is "new" to us as voters, yet flawed, to many people voting for the first and second times? (Presidential election that is.) Pfft. Not to mention that some states are switching between the way they collect and count votes. The electorial college may or may not work, but in my opinion it needs to go, so that one vote can truely mean something. - Z 2000 Election Results Edited October 5, 2004 by Zetirix
Aileron Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 Well, I do apologize for insulting Monte a little...he didn't cause most of that. But then again, Monte is the king of the "US deserved Sept. 11th" line of thought, and those insults weren't the meaningfull kind. I forget exactly who said it and how it was worded, (I do remember it was that topic around Christmas) but yeah, I probably would have killed him if he said it to my face. Part of it stems from the fact I believe in my religion, part of it stems from the fact that I have worked in a hospital and have seen people die when they did not deserve it. Generally, that comment was really really offensive, I had to stay off the forums for a week just to cool down. Now back to the real stuff, the electoral college system isn't flawed. If you analyze the name United States, you get the impression that the US is not a sigular entinty but a combination of states. As the US was created, this was the idea - several autonomous regions bound together by something stronger than an alliance but weaker than a federalist government. In a way this changed and in a way it hasn't. Since the nation was founded, the US has become more multicultural, but the cultures aren't as regionalized between different states. Though, in many ways they still are. There aren't many Hispanics in Maine. Thus, our system of government shouldn't be change much. Suppose there was a worldwide vote of just four people: A German, a Venezuelan, and two Chinease. After they voted on a certain proposal, the results came to be 2:2. Upon further examination, it showed the two Chinease voted yay and the Venezuelan and the German nay. The logical decision at this point is to count countries as en-*BAD WORD*-ies and vote based on the countries' decision. After all, relative to the Venezuelan and the German, the two Chinease persons think very similarly. It takes a lot more to please a Venezuelan and a German than two Chinease. The proposal could be "lets rob everyone and give the booty to China." Democracies' purpose is to put a variety of mindsets in the decision making process. Thus, two people of similar mindset should hold less weight than two people of radically different mindsets. Similarly, in an election with results practically 50:50, getting different states should count. Members of the same state usually have similar mindsets. Thus, a variety of ideas are obtained with holding a variety of states. That is the other problem with elections - people forget that states are supposed to be meaningfull venues of government.
Aileron Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 Oh, btw, I haven't commented on the economy yet. My father is a nuclear engineer...and a good nuclear engineer. He is intelligent, hard-working (actually a work-a-holic), and committed. Generally, there is no reason at all he should be unemployed. However, during the Clinton years, he was downsized from his steady job and had to take contract jobs for a few years. He was still working in hs field, but the work was inconsistant and he had move around a lot. He got sick of it and tried to start a Microbrewery, just to get out of the industry. Our partner, being s!@#$%^&*, bailed on us a year after opening and left us with the bill. The business failed and was soon bought by a larger company. My father went back to contracting. Then, came the Bush administration. My father finally landed a steady job, and my family is better off than I remember being. That's what I don't get. During the Clinton administration, my father was out of work in a dying industry. My family wasn't as well off as we wanted. Now during the Bush administration my father has a steady job and we can afford new furniture, a plasma TV, a satelite dish, and many things we wouldn't consider buying in the 90s. Couple this with the knowledge that the media lies, and I come to this conclusion: The economy is better off under the Bush administration than it was ever in the Clinton one. My father couldn't find a job and couldn't start a business when the economy was supposedly running great, but now it is supposedly floundering, and we are rich! Maybe this is something exclusive to the Nuclear Power industry. In that case, Bush isn't supporting the Oil industry as you guys say, because Nuclear Power competes with Oil in electrical produciton. If Bush was giving handouts to oil, nuclear power would have plummeted and my father would be working as a mechanical engineer. Then again, I can think of other examples: at the hospital I worked at we had all sorts of staffing problems: we needed long shifts and simply could not find enough people to fully fill in our ranks. There was a shortage of WORKERS, not a shortage of jobs. We can't find enough Nurses and Technicians. Thus, I know exactly what Bush did to the economy. He made it worse for the financial lawyer/banker/insurance/investor/accountant type and made it better for the technician/engineer/medical personelle/computer/ type. He increased the demand for scientific workers and decreased the demand for the business type. Now ask yourself, what type of worker does our society NEED? If we have a shortage of the business workers, we give up sweaky clean checkbooks and people making their living buying and selling off the stock market. If we have a shortage of scientist types, we give up the technology that requires their function, whether it be health care, electrical power, computers, etc. Bush made the right decision for the economy, and has though mildly pointed out the problem with every financial setback from the deficet to health care...we need more Science and Engineering workers. You are right in that neither candidate really puts these issues to concern. Yet again, the domestic debates haven't happened yet. I agree with you that it is a shame that the War in Iraq, which really should be insignificant even in foreign issues, is getting all the attention.
»Ducky Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 My Mother and Aunt both worked for the hospital, both laid off. My outlook? On the outside, one could say that they flourished during the Clinton era and were stubbed while Bush was in office. In reality, !@#$%^&* happens. It doesn't matter who is in office.People lost the exact jobs under Bush and Clinton. It is a geographic concern. That is what breeds my apathy over the whole election. Sure, things are indirectly influenced by decisions, but so are they by a butterfly in africa. Neither candidate proposed the solution I wished for the problems I see.Just because one candidate dismissed my concerns as garbage, is no reason to vote for the other which is just as flawed. I don't like Bush, but I am not giving into an anti-Bush candidate when Kerry is just as !@#$%^&*ing stupid.My solution? Don't vote.
MonteZuma Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 Well, I do apologize for insulting Monte a little...he didn't cause most of that. But then again, Monte is the king of the "US deserved Sept. 11th" line of thought, and those insults weren't the meaningfull kind.I can take insults, but the statement that I am king of the "US deserved Sept. 11th line of thought" is bull!@#$%^&*. One of my main points here has always been that much American foreign policy sucks and actually encourages terrorism against the US. I use the decision to invade Iraq as a classic example of how and why US foreign policy sucks and how and why it encourages more terrorism. I challenge you to quote any post where I have ever said or inferred that US deserved Sept 11. ...I probably would have killed him if he said it to my face....I don't have a clue what you are referring to, but that is a bit of an over-reaction don't you think? Suppose there was a worldwide vote of just four people: A German, a Venezuelan, and two Chinease. After they voted on a certain proposal, the results came to be 2:2. Upon further examination, it showed the two Chinease voted yay and the Venezuelan and the German nay. The logical decision at this point is to count countries as en-*BAD WORD*-ies and vote based on the countries' decision. After all, relative to the Venezuelan and the German, the two Chinease persons think very similarly. It takes a lot more to please a Venezuelan and a German than two Chinease. The proposal could be "lets rob everyone and give the booty to China." Democracies' purpose is to put a variety of mindsets in the decision making process. Thus, two people of similar mindset should hold less weight than two people of radically different mindsets.That is one way to break the imp!@#$%^&*e but it is not 'logical'. Your proposed solution means that a Chinese individual's vote is worth less than that of a German or Venezuelan. But nobody ever said democracy was perfect.
MonteZuma Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 Monte, you are stupid !@#$%^&* flinging ape whose entire life consists of two activities: waste your time on this forum, and participation in anal sex with kangaroos. I doubt you are like anything like Crocodile Dundee...Crocodile Dundee was attracted to women, had functional muscles, and could survive outside an air-conditioned environment. The only decent thing that ever came out of your country was that no-name swimmer last olympics, and Phelps kicked his !@#$%^&*! I don't want to see any one of you cry insult again. I've put up with more than enough from you people to care.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ooh Nearly missed this bit. It sounds like you are the one who is crying here? No? You and packetloss make a great team. The fact that you both resorted to typing this trash demostrates your own insecurities and/or immaturity. Grow up.
Dr.Worthless Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 Ok.. this is the first and only time I'm going to say this, and I expect it to be followed. Don't make fun of people who participate in anal sex with kangaroos. Capiche?
MonteZuma Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 That's what I don't get. During the Clinton administration, my father was out of work in a dying industry. My family wasn't as well off as we wanted. Now during the Bush administration my father has a steady job and we can afford new furniture, a plasma TV, a satelite dish, and many things we wouldn't consider buying in the 90s.Happenstance? I agree with you that it is a shame that the War in Iraq, which really should be insignificant even in foreign issues, is getting all the attention.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>You think the invasion and occupation of a middle eastern nation by a coalition of over 100,000 US and international troops in violation of international law and at the expense of the credibility of the UN is insignificant? It is probably the international news story of the decade with repurcussions that will last a generation. You think US fiscal policy should get more attention instead?
talion Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 the reason why people care so much about the american elections, and always will until some asian country kicks its !@#$%^&*, is because it is the country with the most power. plain and simple. the republicans among you will say !@#$%^&* like "!@#$%^&* straight" and "IM GOING TO GO BATHE IN SOME CRUDE NOW K THX BYE," but the problem of outsourcing jobs is becoming very real. it's not just happening to americans. canada's ohios (southern ontario, mostly), are getting screwed out of manufacturing jobs too. my dad's job was axed because the company couldn't compete with other companies that hire people in asia. in 10 or 20 years, there will be one or more same-level powers as the usa. economically, if not militarily (As the case of the eu). until the usa becomes to the world what canada is to the usa right now, people will always care about what goes on. the only thing i know about european elections are that a facist got to the final ticket in France, neo-nazis are getting elected in east german provinces again, and Blair is still PM. oh, and some ex-secret agent runs russia. that's it. because they aren't as important. congrats on being important, usa. now are you going to run yourselves into the ground?
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