A Soldier Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 Who watched it? Before it started, I told myself I'd look at it from an objective point of view. My conclusion is, tonight, Kerry did a better job. One thing I'd reproach (sp?) him though, he should have tried to look at the camera once in a while. He defended himself well, had a good elocution and good gesture. Bush started on a good tone too, but as the debate was getting to an ending, it seemed to me he had difficulty defending himself - at some point he even diverted the discussion to something else - and he was taking way too many pauses to think about what he was going to say. An other thing I noticed, Kerry seemed in total control of himself while Bush was showing up his emotions maybe a bit too much. What did you think about the debate?
50% Packetloss Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 They both lost and the guy from PBS won. He is probably the only guy getting laid that night.
»Ducky Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 Watching the recap as I was out, but on an "outlook" more so at this very moment, Bush needed to stand up straight :-p
Vile Requiem Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 As the debate went on, it was blatently obvious that all Bush could do was say "flip flop", and it wasn't even close to working against a man who was obviously prepared for 90 minutes of policy debate. The man even said "Let Me Finish" when the light was on GREEN (30 secs). And that bit about "loving the woman who lost her son" and "laughing with her", everyone in the room was shaking their head. Sorta like his gaffe earlier about OBGYN's "practicing their love" If this continues in the next two debates, Bush has no chance in -*BAD WORD*-. My guess is he'll improve for the next one.
»Ducky Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 Alrighty, after watching the debate recap for the most part, I agree with vile that he will improve. You can't go much lower. (Had to take the shot.) I believe "showing the voters you are just like them" is important in order to gain backing, but it seemed that the tactic did not go over too well with Bush.Not to say he isn't capable of pulling it off, but he did a lousy job with that aspect tonight. I saw no real relevations with the issues, same ol' stuff shuffled around, although I did take note of the "Out of context" flipflopping that conservatives are attempting to pin to Kerry. I thought his arguement was well (Even if his standpoint was wrong) and his wordings were appropriate. Yep, blatantly liberal as usual.. I will allow more intelligent people to pick apart words and ideas for the meantime. :-p
Dr.Worthless Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 TIME for a republican view of things.. woot woot. Overall debate score for Kerry. C- Overall Debate score for Bush. D Personally I thought both candidates sucked a giant !@#$%^&* tonight. I seriously didn't hear a valid answer to a single question proposed by the moderator all night. The person first addressed with the question would take a general stab at the opponent, with which was replied with another attack, which then caused a response that eventually spiralled into Iraq. War in Iraq was the common theme of the whole debate, even though there was mabye 2 questions on it during the whole debate. Kerry. He was obviously a better public speaker, we all knew this going in. Key points I thought he was weak on. Pointing out America is leading the war in Iraq. Name me a major conflict in the last 50 years that HASNT been led by the US. Saying we had no alliance backing. Britain.. Poland.. 28 other countries? Hardly no alliance. Kerry constantly claiming that Iraq was a debunked war.. yet having voted for the war is pretty !@#$%^&*ing. Furthermore a constant "This is the wrong war at the wrong time" statements. Yet, His plan to be successful in Iraq is to gain more international support. Bush caught him on this.. "So how does my opponent plan on gaining international participation, convincing them to participate in a war that he views is the "wrong war at the wrong time". Kerry was at times promising the world to the american people. He'll cut taxes, yet increase social spending. He'll have increased success in Iraq, yet bring our troops home. Etc. Strong opener, was weaker as the debate went on. "Favorite Quote!!" "Its foolish to have sent our troops to war without body armor." (Yet I voted against funding them). Bush points this out.. Kerry responds. " I've made a mistake on my wording of this war.. The president made a mistake going to war, which is worse?" I was just PRAYING Bush would respond with "A vote is alittle more than wording.. Senator" But alas.. Bush isn't the sharpest crayon. BUSH WEAK POINTS Obviously wasn't very prepaired. I really liked him pounding away at various quotes that Kerry has. Particularly his "Any man who believe the world isn't safer with Saddam in it, isnt fit for the Presidency" Though his lack of public speaking prowess really showed. Seemed caught off guard by some question proposed. Was also visibly flustered and frustrated at times. I can't blame him really, though he is equally at blame for the reason, the debate spun off into a finger pointing !@#$%^&*storm that really had no resemblence to a true "Debate". General mis-use of the English language. I know alot of people dog him for some phrases and other things that he is prone to do. -*BAD WORD*-, I'm from Arkansas and I can relate to him and understands everything he says. I'm use to catching !@#$%^&* about it also, so I can relate. Favorite Quote "Amb!@#$%^&*ador NigerPontey". Heh, somehow I doubt thats how you say his name He also went on a southern induced slur at one point, creating "Im out of there in 6'th months" into "Imoutadeer in 6months" I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. Overall. Terrible debate. I was disappointed by Kerry throwing out every liberal left wing extreme conspiracy theory in the book. With references to being in Iraq for "Oil", and for "Halliburton" and "To busy catering to the wealthy to care about anyone else". Bush just didn't look prepaired, and his lack of public speaking reall caught up to him. I dont feel this debate will effect either candidate for the good nor the bad. Just was a poor performance by both parties.
»Ducky Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 One thing that was said afterwards that I fully agree with is(Please note I cannot cite an exact source, but they were Msnbc panelists) Bush did not so bad a job as to lose his voting support/base, but he did extremely poorly in securing the undecided, as Kerry actually had a chance with his prepared speech.
Aileron Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 I think neither candidate made headway, though I've seen Bush on better days. Bush's problem last night is that he is an offensive thinker - and with our homeland defense capabilities and our military capabilities, that is the right mindest. We have virtually no arms battaries or walls, but a military that kicks !@#$%^&*. Thus, Bush properly has spent the entire War on Terror on offense, and properly so. The problem he ran into last night is that he was forced to DEFEND his policy on Iraq. He spent the last 3 years thinking offensive, and now all of a sudden he has to defend himself. It put him in a rather akward position. Kerry on the other hand needs to watch what he says. There is a MAJOR whole in his policy, which I'm suprised Bush didn't pick up on. Kerry criticises Bush for going into Iraq unilaterally, but look at his policy on other nations. He criticised Bush for using foreign troops to go after Bin Laden, favors Bilateral Talks with North Korea, and said too many other nations had involvement in Iran. Why is a unilateral approach wrong for Iraq, but right for Bin Laden, North Korea, and Iran? Maybe Bush didn't point this out because it could be turned against him. Why favor a multilateral approach for Bin laden, North Korea, and Iran, but not Iraq? However, I think Bush would would won the slugfest in this contest...so I wonder why Bush didn't drag Kerry into it.
50% Packetloss Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 Stop calling it a debate, it was more like a joint press confrence.
Greased_Lightning Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 Yeah I was disappointed by the debate last night. Really no change in the status quo for either side. Obviously the 'win' goes to Kerry for his performance but hopefully the next debates will go into more actual substance. The one question I was really interested in for their answers was on the Darfur crisis but as usual politics replaced straight talk. In fact, this Darfur thing needs its own topic.... Summary, debate sucked, neither side made any headway, just appeased their respective camps. Let's hope the next debates get into some better depth. *SIGH*
Aileron Posted October 2, 2004 Report Posted October 2, 2004 Well, the problem here is that the debates were rather friendly, and the candidates were more mature than to really go at each other. Still, they are going to want to save their best issues for the third debate, so that the other candidate cant react.
ZingyZ Posted October 3, 2004 Report Posted October 3, 2004 I don't know if this is accurate/true, but its interesting anyways: http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=3562
Dr.Worthless Posted October 3, 2004 Report Posted October 3, 2004 To above link Um.. wow Why is it that this year the liberals are so fancy to throw around accusasions that they have absolutly 0 factual backing of?
Vile Requiem Posted October 3, 2004 Report Posted October 3, 2004 And why is it that the Conservatives think Kerry cheated? http://www.drudgereport.com Let's just face the indisputable facts... Kerry decimated an ill prepared Bush this time. Next week the story might change depending on how the VP or Town Hall debates go. Give it a !@#$%^&* rest, all of you.
Dr.Worthless Posted October 3, 2004 Report Posted October 3, 2004 ROFL See that !@#$%^&*.. thx for digging that up vile. If I could edit my above post i'd change "liberals" to "politicians".. this whole !@#$%^&*ing presidential election is turning into one giant joke.
Aileron Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 look the debate was a draw, and Bush had a bad day. When Bush has a good day, Kerry won't be able to stand.
Vile Requiem Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Yes....that is why no poll agrees with you Ail
Aileron Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 yeah, no poll on the liberal websites on ur favorite's list.
Zetirix Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 ROFL See that !@#$%^&*.. thx for digging that up vile. If I could edit my above post i'd change "liberals" to "politicians".. this whole !@#$%^&*ing presidential election is turning into one giant joke.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Welcome to politics, where words speak louder than action. - Z
Aileron Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 Being apathetic is nothing to be proud of.
»Ducky Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 What's wrong with apathy?passion blinds logic. I have seen too many useless and silly arguements on this board due to people being too stubborn with change.
A Soldier Posted October 6, 2004 Author Report Posted October 6, 2004 The Edwards-Cheney debate was... well, more boring than the first one. I would say it was tight. Edwards attacked Cheney with facts more than he did (he was almost always accusing Kerry and Edwards of changing their mind), but overall, I was expecting way more from both sides.
Dr.Worthless Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 WOW I don't know what debate you were watching... Cheney attacks Kerry's voting records.. his supporting the war, then calling it the "wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time" Every "Fact" that Edwards proposed was met with a "counter fact/statistic" by Cheney. Defining Quote. "Senator, your rhetoric would be more effective if Mr.Kerry had a voting record to support it."
Vile Requiem Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 Except for the most obvious lie: http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/Cheney-Edwards.jpg Didn't meet him before eh? (the photo is from 2/1/01) I consider it a draw atm, pending fact checking, because a LOT of numbers got flung around there, and if they'd make an obvious blunder like this, god knows. EDIT: More stuff from the "didnt meet you before", it was TWICE.http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20041006_23.html and creepy old man checking out hot young !@#$%^&* (Cate Edwards no less) syndrome:http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/cheneycheckout.wmvDifferent Angle, Same Result:http://www.kelseyandpaul.com/cheneycheckout.wmv And I wouldn't talk about someone's voting record if:The vice president, I'm surprised to hear him talk about records. When he was one of 435 members of the United States House, he was one of 10 to vote against Head Start, one of four to vote against banning plastic weapons that can p!@#$%^&* through metal detectors. He voted against the Department of Education. He voted against funding for Meals on Wheels for seniors. He voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King. He voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela in South Africa. It's amazing to hear him criticize either my record or John Kerry's.
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