We are all wrong about terrorists!!

[Aileron]

In one of these topics around here rose the question as to why the US, Spain, and Russia was attacked by Al Queda, and UK, Australia, France, and Germany was offered a truce and are exclusively attacked of foreign ground. So, what do the US, Spain, and Russia have in common that the UK, Australia, France and Germany do not have?

 

The secret here is to think like Bin Laden. Ok, I'm a Islamic fundimentalist. I'm fundimentalist, so my political views are a few centuries out of date, and I'm religious, so I don't want to die for state sponsored or secular politics.

 

So, what in history happend a few centuries ago and wasn't state sponsored? The Crusades fit both descriptions, and was an event of large enough scale to warrant Al Queda's reaction.

 

That brings us back to the first question. What do the US, Spain, and Russia have that the rest of the world do not? Catholics. The US and Russia are almost 50% Catholic, and Spain is a whopping 99.9% Catholic. They hate Catholics for the Crusades we did against Muslims so many centuries ago.

 

Why, then, the occasional attacks on other western powers? Well, I personally view the other forms of Christianity as watered-down versions of Catholicism. Agnositicism and Atheism are watered-down versions of Christianity. The moral code held by Athiests is identical to that of a Christian, and when Athiests attack Christians, it is always under a catagory that would be wrong under Christianity. Keep in mind, its not important whether this view is correct. What is important is whether or not Al Queda holds this view. Would a group of Islamic Fundimentalists mar the distiction between Athiest and Catholic? The answer is a definite yes.

 

 

What can be taken from this? First off, that US policy is not to blame for Sept 11. The events that ticked Al Queda off occured long before our nation was even formed. On the other hand, the US should not be spearheading the War on Islamic Fundimentalism. That is the role of the Catholic Church if anyone. If in their mind, they are fighting a Crusade of Jihad, we should retaliate with a Crusade or Jihad.

[A Soldier]

The secret here is to think like Bin Laden. Ok, I'm a Islamic fundimentalist. I'm fundimentalist, so my political views are a few centuries out of date, and I'm religious, so I don't want to die for state sponsored or secular politics.

hahahaha

 

So, what in history happend a few centuries ago and wasn't state sponsored? The Crusades fit both descriptions, and was an event of large enough scale to warrant Al Queda's reaction.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

What can be taken from this? First off, that US policy is not to blame for Sept 11. The events that ticked Al Queda off occured long before our nation was even formed.

WAHAHAHAHAHAH! <_< *chokes*

 

 

You made my day

[Vile Requiem]

Thank you for helping to add fuel to the tinfoil hat theory that people who support Bush want Jesus to return and "save them" as the result of a massive holy war that destroys Isreal in the process

 

(Disclaimer: I am not a proponent of said theory, but you never know)

[Aileron]

Sorry, I don't see anything funny about this situation.

 

I don't like the conclusion, but it is the only thing that makes a -*BAD WORD*- bit of sense. If you fight back against an imperialist power, you call it a revolution or war for independance, but Al Queda clearly refers to their war as a Jihad. They care about the minorty of Muslims in the places they attack. Why should that matter unless you are fighting a religious battle?

[Dr.Worthless]

Who knows the motives, but mabye when a terrorist group flies planes into a canadian building and kills 3000 folks, or the same happens to wherever Vile lives, folks will start taking the threat seriously.

 

Joke all you want guys, laugh it up even, but I bet the little children who lost parents on September 11'th, or the people that lost spouses, or the parents who lost children don't find the situation very funny, and honestly I don't think you should either.

[Dr.Worthless]

Thank you for helping to add fuel to the tinfoil hat theory that people who support Bush want Jesus to return and "save them" as the result of a massive holy war that destroys Isreal in the process

 

(Disclaimer: I am not a proponent of said theory, but you never know)

 

I could resort to making a generalized satire about Kerry supporters, but I refuse to sink to your level.

[A Soldier]

Joke all you want guys, laugh it up even, but I bet the little children who lost parents on September 11'th, or the people that lost spouses, or the parents who lost children don't find the situation very funny, and honestly I don't think you should either.

Hey, dont get me wrong here. I condemn the attacks of September 11; where does it say I find it funny?

 

But come on, saying there is terrorism because of the Crusades..? No serious historian or political analyst would ever come up with something like that...

[Aileron]

Well, not entirely. More like the crusades and every action from the west since then. And, no, the "experts" won't say anything of this sort because they all have their own agendas.

 

Seriously though, its not out of the question. The events that caused the west to abandon the concept of religiously motivated wars did not happen in the middle east. In their culture, religious wars are still fair game.

[MonteZuma]

Aileron,

 

You've lost it with this one. Totally.

 

Can you provide some details about the truce offered by Bin Laden to the UK, Australia, France and Germany? There was a 'truce' offered to European countries that don't interfere in the affairs of muslim countries. I don't know why you think Australia and the UK are in that category.

 

Really though. Everything you wrote in that post is ludicrous.

 

<_<

[Guest Recombo]

That is some funny stuff. I'm not sure what was meant from it though Aileron. Are you trying to give reason to the Al Qaeda for their actions around the world? It's really very simple, Bin Laden wants to be someone - and the way he gets it is by stirring up a comotion, and one day becoming a martyr. Sure sounds like he found a few supporters here.

 

As for the whole Catholic washed out Christianity thing - well, let's just stick to politics fellas.

[»Ducky]

Joke all you want guys, laugh it up even, but I bet the little children who lost parents on September 11'th, or the people that lost spouses, or the parents who lost children don't find the situation very funny, and honestly I don't think you should either.

 

I agree, it is way worse than the innocent drivers around here being crushed by rocks on a local road because the state won't cough up a few grand to fix a landslide issue due to budget shortages.

But so long as we spend money on missles to prevent an undetermined attack we could possibly never recieve again one day, and fight a battle where you can have no winner.. Apparently we are choosing wisely.

 

Sounds like a bunch of -*BAD WORD*-ing horse-*BAD WORD*- to me.

[Guest Recombo]

Apparently you are confusing the responsibility of the state and local municipalities with the feds. A landslide in places where the fed doesn't know about, but the state or locals know about, is not the responsibility of the feds.

 

If you are of age ducky, register and vote for your local reps. Get involved in the local meetings where you can clearly voice your concerns. That is not only your perrogative, but also your responsibility. The local reps are the ones who make the decisions for situations that you described. You cannot affect it unless you take a stance, go where you should be heard, and try to influence those people who make decisions.

[»Ducky]

I voiced no concerns or issues with resposibility.

A shortage of cash is just that, no matter where it is. If that shortage is in the Fed Government, it effects us states; whether directly or indirectly.

 

As for taking a stance and what not, what world are you living in mate? No money means no money. It's pe!@#$%^&*ioned, It's dealt with.. Toss a few bucks in a hat and hope it reaches a few grand so we can fix it ourselves.

[MonteZuma]

What do the US, Spain, and Russia have that the rest of the world do not?  Catholics.  The US and Russia are almost 50% Catholic, and Spain is a whopping 99.9% Catholic.  They hate Catholics for the Crusades we did against Muslims so many centuries ago.

 

Why, then, the occasional attacks on other western powers?  Well, I personally view the other forms of Christianity as watered-down versions of Catholicism.

I just can't let this post rest yet. The percentage of catholics in the countries you mention:

 

USA - 28%

Russia - <1%

Spain - 94%

Australia - 28%

UK - 9%

France - 77%

Germany - 33%

 

I think this blows your entire argument out of the water. Where is the corelation?

 

Btw. About half of the world's Catholics live in South and Central America. Yet they don't seem to be targets of islamic terrorist attacks.

[Dr.Worthless]

Btw. About half of the world's Catholics live in South and Central America. Yet they don't seem to be targets of islamic terrorist attacks.

 

Coincidence that those regions do not possess a super-power?

[MonteZuma]

And they generally do not have the capacity to intervene in muslim affairs. They do not dump their culture or beliefs on others. They aren't perceived as being decadant, exploitive or imperialistic.

 

Basically they mind their own business.

[Guest Recombo]

ducky you said this: I voiced no concerns or issues with resposibility.

 

This is the general problem with most people. You expect things to be handed to you and have someone else do all the work. Then you go on to say there is no cash - but have you really researched that? Most likely the case is that local munic. is budgeting cash in places where other people are asking for it. If you don't get in their face and be heard, they won't know what your concern is.

 

There is always cash; you just have to look for it -- or work for it.

[Aileron]

Well, the Soviet Union artificially controlled religion in Russia, so their Catholic population is going to rebound rather quickly.

 

No one cares about Latin American countries, obviously. Those figures do ruin the theory though. (I thought Spain was higher than that, but still more Spaniards are Catholic than speak Spanish.) However, remember that fundimentalists think out of date. Current statistics mean nothing to them.

 

The real point of this topic is that we don't know what terrorists are motivated by, and it is faulty to assume that their motivation is a good one. They could be suicide bombing us because they don't like the look of a grey suit for all we know.

 

If anything, if we are to assume that they are a radical minority of the Islamic Religion, then that implies that whatever their motive is, it is stupid.

 

I can prove this by contradiction. Suppose then that terrorists are not a radical minority of the population. It that case, they think the same as all their population thinks, and are just a little more active about it. If they think the same way their whole culture thinks, then the entire culture is potentially hostile. Therefore, the only way that the a nation can secure peace from terrorism is by annihilating all populations that produce atleast one terrorist. This is obviously false - it has been proven in the past that at least one set of cultures have been able to live together in peace even if one of them at one time produced a single terrorist that attacked the other. Therefore, the premise that terrorists accurately represent their populations views is false.

 

Therefore, we have deduced that terrorists do not represent the rational thinking portion of their population. Therefore, whatever their motive is, it is irrational. The motive I described at the beginning of this post could very well be their motive, for the very reason that it doesn't make sense. That was the initial point of this topic.

[Vile Requiem]

What's your definition of quickly Ali, the Soviet Union died in 1991

 

Leading to the Drunken Boris era.

[»Ducky]

ducky you said this: I voiced no concerns or issues with resposibility.

 

This is the general problem with most people. You expect things to be handed to you and have someone else do all the work. Then you go on to say there is no cash - but have you really researched that? Most likely the case is that local munic. is budgeting cash in places where other people are asking for it. If you don't get in their face and be heard, they won't know what your concern is.

 

There is always cash; you just have to look for it -- or work for it.

...

 

I voiced no concerns or issues with the resposibility of the government IN MY POST.

I would suggest being open minded about my words instead of trying to pin me in some corner so that you may feel better about yourself.

 

Of course there is money in other places, but it is promised to those other places.

You can't grab someone else's french fries when yours are all gone. We have come close to the max alotted towards our area for this purpose; a max that is far lower than any previous year because of national budget concerns.

Will we get the appropriate funding someday? yes, but we shouldn't be required to wait when lives have been taken.

 

It's voiced and being dealt with by the people. After increased medical costs, land taxes and other small ac-*BAD WORD*-ulative taxes, we shouldn't have to hold fund raisers and fix it ourselves.

Not at least when those sworn to help should be doing so in a realistic way.

 

How hard is it to realize that we should not be over in Iraq. Why do people insist that we are better, and due to that.. must fix others' problems.

What the -*BAD WORD*- are we hoping to do? Take out a specific man that will crush terrorism forever? Not going to happen. Quit living in a diseased fantasy world where imperialism and "World Peace" are your unattainable dreams.

[Bacchus]

Ail, you're swimming up -*BAD WORD*- creek with no paddles.

 

"terrorists think differently"

 

"fondamentalists minds are strange and arcane"

 

You're elaborating a rather simple psycho-pop theory to justify a very simple politic:

 

Middle-east = a pain in the -*BAD WORD*- for USA and allies. Big fish eats small fish, but along the line small fish happens to own a bazooka.

 

"please remember that terrorists thinks differently..."

 

 

once again, utter, complete, genuine -*BAD WORD*-.

[Aileron]

No, its complete and udder logic.

 

Either all Muslims are terrorists and should be treated as terrorists, or terrorists are a radical fringe group that has nothing in common with the mainstream Muslim line of thought.

 

I personally subscribe to the second.

 

If they aren't mainstream, they don't need to be rational. Small groups of crazy people such as the modern KKK pop up in all societies. Their thought processes should not be respected, nor should their line of thinking be mistaken for that of a respectable line of reasoning.

 

If the KKK lynches a black man, is it considered the partial responsability of the black community as a whole? Not in the slightest. The KKK are clearly wrong and irrational. The black community may not be perfect, but even if they were, it would not stop the KKK.

 

The US has her faults and caused problems to the rest of the world compairable to all other nations. However, even if the US was indeed perfect, it would still not prevent irrational fringe groups from justifying their violence in their own irrational heads.

 

 

Now, there is a gap in my logic here. Small groups have the potential to be irrational, though that is not always the case. Many small groups have very good lines of thought that need to be cultivated. How can you distinguish between the rational and irrational kinds of small groups?

 

The only good way is by the group's actions. If, say, the group in question participates in the slaughter of children, one can deduce that the group belongs in the irrational catagory.

[Guest Recombo]

Getting a bit personal, but nothing unusual for this group it appears. Mostly kids, so take it easy.

 

It seems to me that several people here have some deep rooted personal issues to deal with on their own before realizing that the world isn't going to hand them a wad of cash and tell them to 'have a good time'.

 

Today, 4 children were killed among others of a militant stronghold in Falujah. That is a terrible shame, and anyone with a conscience can understand that it was wrong. 300 kids were killed in Russia by a Chechnyan led militant group. There is no reason that it had to happen. No justice will come to people who kill kids. They only bring shame to their name, and the people they represent. Numerous people have been killed in defiance by extremists who didn't get their way. Yet, some here call the coalition an imperialist movement. Get real. Imperialists don't let militant leaders run free. Yet the coalition allowed mqtada al-sadr to run free without constraint -- and all he did was return home and rebuild his militant alliance. He'll perish. It appears that Binladen is nearing a pitiful end from kidney failure. All in the name of what? Hate. Nothing more.

 

As for terrorism. If you feel that you need to try an justify their actions, shamefully you are on the side of the lost. People want to live in peace. If your sole struggle in life is to avenge a personal vandetta, may God have mercy on your soul.

[Dr.Worthless]

I guess what it comes down to is, we should let terrorists attack us because we deserve it.

 

Sorry, Wont ever happen.

[MonteZuma]

Well, the Soviet Union artificially controlled religion in Russia, so their Catholic population is going to rebound rather quickly

Russia never was a catholic country. Most religious Russians are Russian Orthodox and have been for 1,000 years. And most of the catholics in Russia are/were ethnic Lithuanians, Poles and Gennans. Russia was never a centre of catholocism - and never will be.

 

No one cares about Latin American countries, obviously. 

Exactly. Why would they? They don't interfere with anyone.

 

The real point of this topic is that we don't know what terrorists are motivated by, and it is faulty to assume that their motivation is a good one.  They could be suicide bombing us because they don't like the look of a grey suit for all we know.

We do know what terrorists are motivated by. There is plenty of literature that explains this. They explain this themselves in videos and even on the Net. Try listening to what they say before they blow themselves up and you might start to understand where they are coming from. It is faulty to describe their motivation as either good or bad or stupid or smart. Obviously the people who flew the planes into the WTC and the Pentagon weren't stupid. They are probably very intelligent. Why do intelligent people do this stuff?

 

Rest !@#$%^&*ured, these people are not killing themselves because they don't like grey suits.

 

I can prove this by contradiction.  Suppose then that terrorists are not a radical minority of the population.  It that case, they think the same as all their population thinks, and are just a little more active about it.  If they think the same way their whole culture thinks, then the entire culture is potentially hostile.  Therefore, the only way that the a nation can secure peace from terrorism is by annihilating all populations that produce atleast one terrorist.  This is obviously false - it has been proven in the past that at least one set of cultures have been able to live together in peace even if one of them at one time produced a single terrorist that attacked the other.  Therefore, the premise that terrorists accurately represent their populations views is false.

 

Therefore, we have deduced that terrorists do not represent the rational thinking portion of their population.  Therefore, whatever their motive is, it is irrational.  The motive I described at the beginning of this post could very well be their motive, for the very reason that it doesn't make sense.  That was the initial point of this topic.

Aileron. Stop trying to turn this into a mathematical equation. Arabs and muslims are exactly the same as me and you. The only difference is that they have grown up in a different society and have been conditioned to believe different things. If we want to win the war on terror then we need to make sure that we (the west) aren't hated by the next generation of potential fundamentalists. You can't do that by killing innocents and telling people how to live their lives. If this war on terror was more strategic, and less innocent people got hurt, then we'd be a lot further advanced in this war than we are now.

 

If I was an idealistic muslim kid in Iraq watching my neighbours and maybe even my parents getting killed by US 'smart' bombs I'd be pretty pissed. I might even want to retaliate when GI Joe comes walking down the street with a megaphone telling me how lucky I am to be free from tyranny.

 

Is it really that hard to understand the motivation of these people?