pernille Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Please post your thoughts and opinions about the friday map in here pernille
Tipme Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 this map will be good with more people,with all those crazy entrances and maze-like stuffand the main entrance is there for no reasonall in all its good i like except................ THE DOORS
Jumbone Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 First thoughts on the Friday map after about an hour of playing. I don't like all the long maze stuff. It seems like parts of the map don't have a reason being there. Shorter ball time... i like it, makes a faster game. Also makes moving the ball to the goal more of a team effort. Flags in the ball rooms... Finally the north base is gone! If this zone is going to have turf type flags, they belong in the actual bases. Not some superfluous north base.
Yupa Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 spawn area looks like it might end up too small imo it will be crazy with more people much improved overall, though, I think - leave it up more than a day
Samapico Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 ... OMG IT'S FRIDAY! YAY! ... I'll see that map in... 60-90 minutes...
Greased_Lightning Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 I agree with what Jumbone says about the flags and ball time .... also about the maze bases... I like the tunnel thing around the perimeter of the map and the multiple entrances to the goalroom but all the dead ends in the base are worthless. There is no point to go into the base through the front unless you are in a weasel. Whoever did this map apparently belived that more is better but thats not true. There is WAY too much extraneous -*BAD WORD*- on the map. Those areas filled with X's in the corners are useless crap. Center is way too constricted. There isn't enough room. Someone suggested in pub that we should get 100 ppl in there and then play it. That is a stupid idea. If you get 100 people in that map, all you'll have is a massive center gang kill area that resembles Extreme Games without the safety. Speaking of safeties, these ones are terrible... They are too remote, too small, and to get to them I had to p!@#$%^&* through that -*BAD WORD*- tube filled with spiders and sharks...its -*BAD WORD*-. If the old map was kept with the same base structure, while keeping the perimeter tunnels...eliminate that corner -*BAD WORD*- with the X's and reinstate the old center area with the same proportion as it used to be. I dont miss north...but we do need a better (or more than one) safe area that is more accessible like it used to be. Having forward entrances to the base without access to goal room except by weasel tubes is pointless...why even make it possible for large ships to enter the base??? Anyways, I doubt any of this will be considered if this map is kept. All i can say is that if THIS is the map that 17th uses from now on... then I probably wont play pub anymore and only come around for events like speedball and sblball.... so... DONT USE THIS MAP AS IS PLZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yupa Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Flags in the ball rooms... Finally the north base is gone! If this zone is going to have turf type flags, they belong in the actual bases. Not some superfluous north base.ya - shame the sysops are -*BAD WORD*--bent on not using the traditional map in such a way (except Nurples' short-lived but awesome #mummy map)
AndurilFlameoftheWest Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Being the lone leviathian user on this forum I would hafta say the map is somewhat on teh right track but still sucks. The center is way to small and basically your hoping that someone is in a base somewhere, cuz you sure as -*BAD WORD*- arent gonna stay alive in the center long. The explosions kick -*BAD WORD*-, i would say def keep them for the long run. I also like the passage that goes around the perimeter of the arena, it seems like its well fitted for levi, and other ships too i spose. Its way to complex, try to make it simpler, and not an overwelming labyrinth. Ball time should be sazme time as always. Not all people want to ball, nor participate in the actual game. So in short, Likes - passage surrounding arena, Explosions, more than one way to get in base.Dislikes, spawn radius, tight center, complexity. and Sets stay the same. Anduril/Guestdbld2k3
Greased_Lightning Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Anduril...you basically said exactly what I did...except alot better Those explosions are cool... keep the cool graphics a'comin'!
DaKillaRoach Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 I take it this is ?go 17thnew you are referring to? Pern showed me it and well I wasn't impressed when I saw it. There are too many WALLS! It reminded me of a cross breed between EG middle, an old MG map and SWR bases. My suggestion for the 17th map was always go back to current but remove north, enlarge left and right, place a few flags around. Nice Now this map on the other hand has way too many bottle necks, enclosed areas and ships not designed for the in base fighting on this scale (-*BAD WORD*- we don't have enough people on at once to host a full pub game on the scale the map suggests). A nice try but not good enough. Why you guys in staff don't listen to us is when it comes to what a good map would be is beyond me Take all the good points, look at the current map, decides what needs to be changed from those points.
pernille Posted July 31, 2004 Author Report Posted July 31, 2004 We do listen DKR,but you are not the only player in here and how odd you might find it,they dont nessarely like what you like. We also know know we cant please everyone but are also trying to find a crossroad that can please more than just the ppl that -*BAD WORD*- loudest. Nurples #mummy map is a good map,unfortanly alot disliked it was pub for a week or so pernille
Kill9mm Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 -*BAD WORD*-o everyone. I was the one who designed the map and explosions, and I just want to thank everyone for their positive and constructive opinions. Let me see if I can address each issue independently. Flags in goal areaYes. The concensus is that the north base sucks and integrating the flag game with the powerball game works. Those were my thoughts as well. As well, this benefits the ball game because players are more likely to focus action around the goal area, increasing the chance that there is an anchor for attaching to such an important area in the map, for defensive and offensive purposes. Further, it emphasizes the need to overcome the opposing team's goal area in order to grab flags or score the ball, as opposed to just scoring. Center's size.I made the center a smaller size because I feel that the current 17th pub map is way too unfocused in center. By making it smaller it did the following:- Placed the focus on ball retrieval.- Cut the "fly back to action" time.- Encouraged warping to other teammates.- Focused action.My observations of the center are as follows:- I only died a couple of times by a bad spawn.- Getting back in the action was a lot easier, something that is very important to me as a mapmaker.- Just generally I liked how there was always something to expect when spawning in center. Shorter ball-carry time.I'm glad that a lot of players realise the goal to shortening the ball-carry time! It encourages teamwork, and an important side effect is that cloaked ships must p!@#$%^&* the ball a lot sooner, decreasing their tactic of confusion. Multiple passages.Ok, I know this is a big issue, and its really not that big of a deal! While there might be many ways to get the ball to the goal, ultimately a team decides which path to take, and that path is incredibly obvious to the defending team. One thing I noticed is that a lot of players didn't know how to p!@#$%^&* the ball using insert, its very likely that those same players aren't used to using alt to see the full-size map and the overall location of the powerball. Size of passages.The size of the passages are roughly the same size as the passages in the current pub map, and in many cases the same (I used the current map as a starting point). Dead Ends?There are no "dead ends". The center tube is used to feed the ball into the goal area by passing or by Weasel, and by the center chute or wallgrab. The center area is also great for both defense and offense: defense fires bombs out of the chutes to discourage Weasels and chute-passing; offense fires bombs into the chutes to kill the defending team (hopefully making it easier to accomplish a take-over of the goal area from the other paths). There are only 2 places that you can fly to that don't move you farther to the goal area, and these are in both base paths around the "circular" areas. They are to be used for defending the ball in case you're surrounded, or for feeding the ball into an area of the same path. Length of passages.The length of the paths are also whats in question, but I dont believe it to be a negative. I find that focusing the action on overcoming opposing teams makes it more of a payoff when a goal is made, as opposed to flying for a very short period of time and scoring. As well, its fun to fly through these areas, knowing that enemies are surrounding you. It really stresses the importance of teamwork and attaching to ballcarriers. Outer PathsThe outer paths I'm also glad people understand them. They are very long-range-bombing oriented. They're just a different flavor of a path, and provide interesting situations. Since they are very easy to get to from center, they are the most obvious path to take, and a defending team will surely know about it. And, if a team overcomes the ball, they don't need to fly through center to get it to their own goal, they simply fly the other direction. Explosions.I'm glad you guys like the explosions! I also did the replacement ones that had been in pub before. Anyway, I'm glad people liked the map. I had a lot of fun. I know the map could use some tweaks, but I believe the overall feel works (especially after seeing it used in pub so well). It was great watching, over the length of a few hours how m!@#$%^&* amount of players learned and understood the way the map operates.
The Maurauder Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 I thought i heard somewhere that these explosions were copied from another zone. I may be wrong, but if so, that is REALLY lame. ANyways ASSS a well maade map but the design of the bases and the concept of the outer tunnel was rather bad. The bases were hard to navigate and the tunnels were rather useless. If you want to score, youre not going to go along the entire outside of the map.
Kill9mm Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 The explosions I made for powerball and were up about a month. The explosions used in 17th were almost the same except I made them a lot better.
The Maurauder Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 Still 17th doesnt want stuff that other zones have i believe. :muhah:
Delic Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 Uh, we've been getting stuff from other zones for literally years, even some staffers
Kill9mm Posted August 1, 2004 Report Posted August 1, 2004 Your existing explosions were released as part of my continuum graphics pack that I released a couple years ago. If you notice in the readme it says that you may use the graphics if you contact me. I dont think I ever got an email from anyone in 17th regarding the use of my gfx. So, please, Maur, stop being so negative. I'm getting tired of it. Thanks.
DaKillaRoach Posted August 1, 2004 Report Posted August 1, 2004 I understand where you are coming from map wise Kill9mm and respect and like the fact you are helping the zone. It means alot to a whole lot of players My ideas were never listened to (except the one hit kill mine ^_^) when the majority were actually good stablising ideas but hopefully yours will finally get through some peoples heads. Tweak the map and do what you feel is best I suppose... I've never seen a really good map in any SS zone I can say wow to compared to similiar games (Infantry for example blew me away simply because of its great maps and settings, the reason I stayed in 17th was because of the settings and then look what happened ) Also choose to ignore Maurauder (aka squeeky bollocks - ask naedhaha ) He is an idiot and generally talks random crap that not even Ricebowl wants to hear. I find ignore works quite nicely, in game and on forum.
SigmaE Posted August 2, 2004 Report Posted August 2, 2004 I recently got into this game, but I wanted to voice my opinion anyways. I really liked Friday's map compared to the other one unlike a few people that I heard from. After playing again today, I miss how much there was to it in Friday's map. To start, I agree with the points about the north area and flags. CenterI liked how less cluttered the center area is and don't mind the somewhat smaller size. I wouldn't know how it would be if there were one hundred players. If they all logged on simultaneously, I think it would be highly chaotic; we can only speculate. However, most people come and go throughout the gameplay, so it's more likely that someone already has the ball and people are scattered out on the map. Another thing I liked was how the ball was accessible and pretty much fair game. While in the other map if you were placed at the bottom right corner and the ball was at the upper left, you would have a lot of slow down and obstacles just to get to it. By that time, for me that is, I would just give up and let someone else grab it. Also, the "fly back to action" time is nice. I guess getting to the ball first is based less on luck of placement which is great. X AreaOf the four or five hours I played in the afternoon, I probably went through this area maybe once or twice. I don't really have an opinion on this except it's nice for some cover. Maybe if the map was still up, I would have looked around more. Outter PerimetersThis was the path of choice when I played, mostly because I was getting familiar with it. I used one of the other pathways, but since the team size was so small, I wanted to help the others out by being a wingman instead of ignoring them and looking around. The team I was on went through that tunnel many many times with much success. I noticed a lot more strategic team work while playing, instead of the normal "blast as many people as possible at the front area of the base to get through" plan that I've seen. The team we were versing had a bunch of cloakers. So a few times they would release the spread shots (I forgot what it was called as I haven't played as much) while they were cloaking and it would pretty much wipe most people out (it's a small tube, so a lot of the bullets are going to be ricocheting quickly and it's less likely to get away from the area safely), but I thought cutting them off halfway through the outter tubes was great. I also noticed a lot more attaching. There was a lot more for the simple fact it takes longer to get to the base than before. Attaching is just simply a lot faster than flying there and finding out that your team members were killed already and that the opponent went the other direction. The ball time was great, I thought. I liked passing the ball to my team members; my team had a nice simple plan of protecting the ball carrier and passing. Another thing I liked was how many options you have to get to the base. It prevents a lot of congestion. It's a big plus for strategy playing as well like cutting the opponent off. Though in a few instances, once the ball carrier gets to a certain point in the outter tube, it's pretty much almost over; very hard to catch up, unless there is someone somewhere else on the map close by on another route you could attach to. I have to say, great job Kill9mm and I look forward to variations on that map. By the way, I used the alt map religiously while playing. I like maneuvering and at a few points it got a little boring being the ball carrier and shooting straight down the tube. Put a few curves in it, it'd be nice to enjoy the scenic route along the way.
DaKillaRoach Posted August 2, 2004 Report Posted August 2, 2004 Most 17th pubbers don't p!@#$%^&* or use teamwork. I'm surpised you found a team that did work together. Most are too stupid or think they are too good to actually use teamwork, self sacrifice and diversions to win the ball game. Me on the other hand? Heh, i just own Note: Burst is easy to dodge Also upon the attaching note; was this map in play when the 35 bounty to attach was in place? That slows down attaching as it is unless there was alot of greens in centre.
Samapico Posted August 2, 2004 Report Posted August 2, 2004 Most 17th pubbers don't p!@#$%^&* or use teamwork. I'm surpised you found a team that did work together. Most are too stupid or think they are too good to actually use teamwork' date=' self sacrifice and diversions to win the ball game.[/quote']That's coz u never been on SMG's freq Also upon the attaching note; was this map in play when the 35 bounty to attach was in place? That slows down attaching as it is unless there was alot of greens in centre.Negative. Attach bounty was 31 (40 for spider I think). And the greens were much more concentrated in center, since the spawn area is reduced.
Samapico Posted August 2, 2004 Report Posted August 2, 2004 About the map... At the beginning I was really hating it... seemed so big... but after a couple of hours I got used to it and found it rather fun. The reduced spawn area makes the 'i-jus-spawned-and-it's-boring-coz-i'm-alone-on-the-radar' time much shorter... Warping to escape a dangerous situation is much more risky. All in all that adds some fun and makes it a bit more lame sometimes, I like it tho With longer paths to goal and shorter balltime, teamwork is much encouraged... and... bah g2g now lol.. my break's over... but anyway.. I liked the map.
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