Bush vs. Kerry (domestically)

[»SD>Big]

why should the Church support Kerry?

i agree, why should the church support kerry?

 

why should any religion have importance in government? i thought humanity has gone past the point of religious inteference in government (ya ya i know it happens everywhere still) what i'm saying is it shouldn't.

[»SD>Big]

as for gay marriage, who the -*BAD WORD*- cares what people do!! if two men want to get married, let them! what difference does it make to you! just cause you don't agree with it, or you don't like, so what. it's not like them being married is going to affect you negativly. people need to stop getting so -*BAD WORD*- offended by what other people do.

that's whats wrong with our world, everyone is too sensitive about what everyone else is doing.

[Dr Brain]

It does effect people negativly.

 

Take Sweeden (maybe it was Finland) as an example. After gay marriage, the out of wedlock birthrate doubled (and last I checked, gay people don't have kids).

 

Mmm, gay marriage is great, huh?

[Live-Wire]

Holy -*BAD WORD*-, how can you people open your mouths and be wrong so often? Why bother coming to the forum and saying something like "Well, I sure don't know my facts, but your claims look WRONG!".

 

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research !@#$%^&*ociates. May 13-14, 2004. N=1,010 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (total sample).

 

"There has been much talk recently about whether gays and lesbians should have the legal right to marry someone of the same sex. Which of the following comes closest to your position on this issue? Do you support FULL marriage rights for gay and lesbian couples; do you support gay civil unions or partnerships, BUT NOT gay marriage; or, do you oppose ANY legal recognition for gay and lesbian couples?"

 

28% Full Marriage Rights

23% Civil Unions / Partnerships

43% No Legal Recognition

6% Don't Know

72% of americans do not support gay marriage. The sex with your dog arguement is just -*BAD WORD*-ing rediculous. That is illegal, it is considered a mental disorder, and you are not born wanting to have sex with other species. Having gay sex is not illegal, you are born with your sexual orientation, and it is not a mental disorder. Shut up.

 

The First -*BAD WORD*-ing Amendment

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to !@#$%^&*emble, and to pe!@#$%^&*ion the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

Umm, can you read? This isn't the -*BAD WORD*-ing Holy Roman Empire. The first time you mention the word religion or god in a political speach you should get your -*BAD WORD*- impeached.

 

http://usinfo.org/USIA/usinfo.state.gov/us...trock/media.htm

 

Polls in 1956, prior to the crisis, showed that 85 percent of the people of Arkansas supported segregation

 

Since the -*BAD WORD*-ing function of democratic government is to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority, saying something like "because the overwhelming majority support it, it should be a law" pisses me off. The Supreme Court has been knocking aside stupid ideas the majority comes up with for over 200 years. Thats what they are there for, thats what they do, and thats why they're the most important arm of the government.

 

Why should we protect minorities when the majority doesn't want to? Hear anything about ethnic cleansing in Serbia? How about the Spanish Inquisition?

 

Thats what democracy is. If you want to live somewhere homogenous, go to Norway.

 

You support your party? Thats politics? Wait for another directive from Rome to tell you what to do? Holy -*BAD WORD*-, get a -*BAD WORD*-ing education and think for yourself or move to China where you can fall in line and do what you're told by the commune.

 

How can you say something wrong in the executive branch is NOT Bush's fault? If the CIA -*BAD WORD*-s up, its his department, and he -*BAD WORD*-ed up. Blaming the director of the CIA is twice as -*BAD WORD*-ing stupid and blaming Bush. If some joe-shmoe -*BAD WORD*-ed up somewhere, how is it the CIA director's fault and not Bush's? You forget that all of those departments are run by GEORGE W BUSH. He only gets to appoint people to run them because otherwise he wouldn't be able to handle everything at once (which he still can't).

 

Do you people even know how the government works?

 

How can you say "Clinton shrinked the military" and not admit "Clinton grew the economy". Is he ALL POWERFUL only when he does something you don't like?

 

And what do you mean "the deficit will come soon"? The dollar is weak. We are all poorer than we were 4 years ago when you ignore all income and expenditures. Does that not make a -*BAD WORD*-ing difference to you people?

 

Now you're -*BAD WORD*-ing whining that the Democrats have a conspiracy in the Supreme Court because the old justices won't retire?

 

STEVENS, BORN 1920, APPOINTED BY FORD (R )

REHNQUIST, BORN 1924, APPOINTED BY REAGAN ®

O'CONNOR, BORN 1930, APPOINTED BY REAGAN ®

GINSBURG, BORN 1933, APPOINTED BY CLINTON (D)

SCALIA, BORN 1936, APPOINTED BY REAGAN ®

KENNEDY, BORN 1936, APPOINTED BY REAGAN ®

BREYER, BORN 1938, APPOINTED BY CLINTON (D)

SOUTER, BORN 1939, APPOINTED BY BUSH ®

THOMAS, BORN 1948, APPOINTED BY BUSH ®

 

You're right, what totally old liberal justices! CONSPIRACY alert.

 

Leave my forum. I'm bored of this topic.

[MasterDrake]

Live-Wire lay off the caffine man

[Bacchus]

i was going to post, but i'm feeling depressed...just read Live article again.

[Dr.Worthless]

Here comes the uber arguement about gay marriage. For the record, I'm torn between religious beliefs, and civil beliefs. I recognize that I shouldn't have a right to tell people who the can marry, but I also believe that same sex couples are wrong.

 

 

 

72% of americans do not support gay marriage. The sex with your dog arguement is just -*BAD WORD*-ing rediculous. That is illegal, it is considered a mental disorder, and you are not born wanting to have sex with other species. Having gay sex is not illegal, you are born with your sexual orientation, and it is not a mental disorder. Shut up.

Soddomy and Oral Sex is illegal in many states also, in some states any sex other than vaginal is illegal, so unless the gays want to jerk eachother off, they're breaking the law.

 

Please provide substancial proof that people are born with sexual orientation. A simple arguement against that statement would be that every species on this earth is born with the instinct to procreate. This is obviously to ensure the survival of the species. So, why would humans be born with the preference of wanting to have sex with something that it cannot pro-create with? Since same sex couples cannot pro-create, that would be going against the laws of self preservation.

 

 

 

You support your party? Thats politics? Wait for another directive from Rome to tell you what to do? Holy -*BAD WORD*-, get a -*BAD WORD*-ing education and think for yourself or move to China where you can fall in line and do what you're told by the commune.

 

Get off your high horse, -*BAD WORD*-er. If someone wants to live by the commands of the church, and the Pope, that is their right. It does not make them below your "educated" self.

 

 

 

How can you say something wrong in the executive branch is NOT Bush's fault? If the CIA -*BAD WORD*-s up, its his department, and he -*BAD WORD*-ed up. Blaming the director of the CIA is twice as -*BAD WORD*-ing stupid and blaming Bush. If some joe-shmoe -*BAD WORD*-ed up somewhere, how is it the CIA director's fault and not Bush's? You forget that all of those departments are run by GEORGE W BUSH. He only gets to appoint people to run them because otherwise he wouldn't be able to handle everything at once (which he still can't).

That whole paragraph is shot by simply stating that Tenet was appointed by Clinton, during his administration. You're right.. the president appoints people to run the CIA and other departments because he doesnt have the time to run them himself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you people even know how the government works?

 

Since you obviously think you're so -*BAD WORD*-ing smart, why dont you go into detail for us?

[MasterDrake]

I couldn't of said it better myself Doc

[Aileron]

So, gay sex being legal automatically makes it moral? Sure, morallity is always dependant upon what is legal, as well as the defignition of what is a mental disorder and what isn't.

 

Reread the first amendment, carefully. Politicians are not allowed to make direct laws on the matter. Other than that, they are allowed to be as religious as the want.

 

I didn't say supporting one's party was right; I said it was politics. Its something that happens that you cannot avoid.

 

You preech to me about Presidential powers, yet you turn around and say something stupid. The President has power over the budget and the military, but only very indirect control over the economy.

[MasterDrake]

Ok from what I have researched from this gay marriage deal there is no amendment stating a right to marriage it is pure religion. And basically that means that means that the churchs have the choice of what happens, currently the president in pushing for a banning of gay marriage or basically stating marriage is only between a man and a women. They were also trying to p!@#$%^&* a amendment earlier to approve gay marriage but was shot down.

And yes in recent polls 70% of americans don't want gay marriages

[Live-Wire]

Please provide substancial proof that people are born with sexual orientation.

No. You proide substantial proof that they are not. I just looked up plenty of stuff, its your turn, since you haven’t backed anything up yet.

 

Soddomy and Oral Sex is illegal in many states also, in some states any sex other than vaginal is illegal, so unless the gays want to jerk eachother off, they're breaking the law.

 

Okay, now you’re just making no sense. You just said this, “In Texas, you have to pay Texas State income taxes. If people around the country do not pay Texas State income taxes, they are breaking the law.” Stay on topic please.

 

Get off your high horse, -*BAD WORD*-er. If someone wants to live by the commands of the church, and the Pope, that is their right. It does not make them below your "educated" self.

And if someone wants to bone another dude, that is their right. What are you nuts? Breaking out some “freedom” argument in defense of not allowing gays to get married? Following the directives of the church to lead your life has nothing to do with telling other people how to lead their lives. I’m on my high horse because my horse is -*BAD WORD*-ing bigger than yours.

 

Plus I find something unsettling about what happens when there is a Catholic President and Rome decides to conquer Europe (again). Will the word of god command the mighty arm of the US Armed Forces to destroy the sinners (Muslims, Jews, Protestants… do you believe anyone besides you is going to heaven)?

 

Get That whole paragraph is shot by simply stating that Tenet was appointed by Clinton, during his administration. You're right.. the president appoints people to run the CIA and other departments because he doesnt have the time to run them himself.

 

It was an example. Change Tenet’s name to Rumsfeld and the argument is the same.

 

Since you obviously think you're so -*BAD WORD*-ing smart, why dont you go into detail for us?

Nice cover up for not being able to explain it yourself.

 

So, gay sex being legal automatically makes it moral?

 

No. I’m making the case that gay sex is moral, and it has nothing to do with legality. I saw the government shouldn’t poke its nose into that kind of business (because apparently Republicans think the government should determine morality in the bedroom but never, ever, ever morality in the boardroom).

 

The President has power over the budget and the military, but only very indirect control over the economy.

Uh. Read book good?

 

You need to learn about how the budget comes about. It has a huge, huge amount to do with Congress. Suggesting that the President has “power over” the budget over emphasizes his influence.

 

Again, he commands the military, but he has nothing to do with deciding whether or not he can increase or decrease the size. He asks congress, then they decide for him.

 

Indirect control over the economy? How about “you guys no longer have to pay taxes, WOOHOO” and then the country explodes. That’s a lot of influence. Not to mention he could fire the director of the central bank and appoint a Saudi Arabian who didn’t speak English if he wanted to. Then Bush would pull a string and crank seniorage up to like 50% and make himself rich.

 

I couldn't of said it better myself Doc

 

If you speak English you probably could have.

[MasterDrake]

Live stfu u uneducated prick all you can do is insult people to get you points across here is a little article that expresses both view points on sexual orientation neither are right or wrong so don't start -

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fixe.htm

[50% Packetloss]

I want to clear up this 'moral' word that you people keep throwing around, because many of you don't understand what it means.

 

Moral-

Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.

 

And then you ask, "Where the -*BAD WORD*- do morals come from? Who has the authority to tell humans what is good and bad?" That answer, unfortunately, is God (or some other form of supreme en!@#$%^&*y that is above humans), no matter how you use the word, you are in fact saying you are a right wing religious wack. This isn't my opinion, Moral as a word has a religious connotation and is an appeal to value (your good character).

[Aileron]

There is such a thing as secular morality, which is a joke.

 

And having a religion doesn't make you a right-wing whacko. Anyone who is well-travelled should have met many people who a both religious and leftist. Most religious people are centralist.

 

If I am wrong, you can't make an arguement saying that we shouldn't wipe out all muslims. After all, if all religious people are right-wing whackos, and muslims follow their relgion (by definition), we must conclude that all muslims are right wing whackos and thus, we have a need to wipe them out, because living beside whackos is impossible.

 

Since that conclusion is obviously wrong, one must conclude logically that not all religious people are right wing whackos.

 

 

Are you so arrogant that you think that you are the only one who knows what the word "moral" means? I've taken a whole course on the subject! Your post is little more than a childish insult!

[»Ducky]

I’m on my high horse because my horse is -*BAD WORD*-ing bigger than yours.

Best comment in the whole debate.

 

Somehow I always get disgusted over these topics. Sounds like an arguement in preschool all over again.

 

"I r kant liek teh geys cuz gawd wont lte em in his invisble kingdum."

 

My stomach turns knowing that anything I do will result in confrontation from the christian chruch telling me whether or not it is appropriate. As though they know whats befitting of myself and family.

 

I don't remember ever hearing "We give you the freedom of religious choice, except on saturdays and when abortion is mentioned."

[Live-Wire]

You have no morals if you aren't religious?

 

Anyway, your nonsensicle circular logic lost me, so I can't follow this thread anymore. I have no idea what any word in your post meant. I'm just not smart enough.

 

I shall retreat and leave this thread to you intellectuals.

[white_0men]

The First -*BAD WORD*-ing Amendment

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to !@#$%^&*emble, and to pe!@#$%^&*ion the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

 

Umm, can you read? This isn't the -*BAD WORD*-ing Holy Roman Empire. The first time you mention the word religion or god in a political speach you should get your -*BAD WORD*- impeached.

 

One word, Amen.

[Slowking Man]

The First -*BAD WORD*-ing Amendment

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to !@#$%^&*emble, and to pe!@#$%^&*ion the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

 

Umm, can you read? This isn't the -*BAD WORD*-ing Holy Roman Empire. The first time you mention the word religion or god in a political speach you should get your -*BAD WORD*- impeached.

 

One word, Amen.

Unfortunately, you then violate the very same amendment, since you'd be infringing upon the President's free exercise.

[Bacchus]

wow.

 

silly americans.

 

i know it's a "domestic" topic but can't you just lay down the "religiously founded argument" and try something more...err...humane?

 

almost every time someone speaks out an idea about good/bad or right/wrong you automatically refer to God and what the religion tells you. Can't you show off a bit more moral autonomy and thus, a more tolerant view of the world and it's various cultures?

 

Reading you all (apart from live i must say) you're all mixed up with morals/religion/law, word/concept/idea, art/science, you look like you're very ill equipped to face this very complicated world.

 

What's "bad" about sex? about love? about unions? apart from the word of god?

 

What's good, what's bad?

 

You sound like entrenched in a "messianic" world where your prez plays the part of some sort of holy act, like Bush was a hero upholding traditionnal values...

 

man, from my point of view and a whole lot of people around the world, that makes you very weird indeed.

 

I'm re!@#$%^&*ured by Live wits an objectivity, even though i know we wouldn't agree on a lot of subjects...i think he's the most adapted to choose wisely and to undertsand your domestic policies.

 

If your vote is gonna be based on some of your ideas about what's good or not for your country, this is gonna be messy...please, pay attention to posts like Live's.

 

wow again, some of you are freaking me out...

[Vile Requiem]

Well, considering as none of our Founding Fathers was Catholic, and in fact wrote volumes about the values of secular government, I find that !@#$%^&*uming that the country was founded upon faith based values is rather wrong

[white_0men]

Not that we are much of a democracy as is anyway, but to mix what we actually have now with the morals of someone dedicated to a religion as opposed to dedicated to the people he is supposed to be serving will only end poorly for everyone.

 

I could really care less whether the pope supports bush or kerry, but why would the vatican take a side? Did god tell the pope that he wants bush to be president? Or does the pope like the idea of bush bringing back the crusades against the infidels?

[Jauggernaut]

Same sex marriage is fine, I could care less what some -*BAD WORD*- and is boyfriend want to do with their lives as long as they don't come knocking on my door inviting me to their wedding, they can keep their parrades and sex jelly. The fact of the matter is Bush is scared of the gays and has started a project in area 51 to exterminate them before they over throw his government and take over the United States Of America.

 

BTW yes I did go too far in this post because Bush is an outright moron. Enough said.

 

I am Canadian.

[»Ducky]

wow.

 

silly americans.

 

i know it's a "domestic" topic but can't you just lay down the "religiously founded argument" and try something more...err...humane?

 

almost every time someone speaks out an idea about good/bad or right/wrong you automatically refer to God and what the religion tells you. Can't you show off a bit more moral autonomy and thus, a more tolerant view of the world and it's various cultures?

 

Reading you all (apart from live i must say) you're all mixed up with morals/religion/law, word/concept/idea, art/science, you look like you're very ill equipped to face this very complicated world.

 

What's "bad" about sex? about love? about unions? apart from the word of god?

 

What's good, what's bad?

 

You sound like entrenched in a "messianic" world where your prez plays the part of some sort of holy act, like Bush was a hero upholding traditionnal values...

 

man, from my point of view and a whole lot of people around the world, that makes you very weird indeed.

 

I'm re!@#$%^&*ured by Live wits an objectivity, even though i know we wouldn't agree on a lot of subjects...i think he's the most adapted to choose wisely and to undertsand your domestic policies.

 

If your vote is gonna be based on some of your ideas about what's good or not for your country, this is gonna be messy...please, pay attention to posts like Live's.

 

wow again, some of you are freaking me out...

 

It was a very well suited rant, however inane the opinion. Not only generalized a public, but !@#$%^&*umed for others you have never met.

[Aileron]

Its because the entire Catholic Church is pro-life. We view abortion as wrong. Now we have a candidate for the most powerfull position on earth, and he won't even support us that far. Does he really share our beliefs? He is for everything we are against and against everything we are for! To us Catholics, Kerry is like a guy pushing on a tug o' war team.

 

And don't give me that "Presidency is influenced by the pope" bull. Religions are sovereign too, just like nations. The Pope doesn't have to follow the first amendment, and there is no reason why he should.

 

 

Did I ONCE use a religiously founded arguement in these forums? If I recall, I have used entirely secular arguements. I don't know why I am giving you that advantage by fighting on your territory, but don't be complaining about religious arguements.

 

 

Okay, now I've defended Bush's position, now you defend Kerry's.

 

 

Could somebody please name ONE of Kerry's definitive policies? I must have missed them. I know he is an "anybody but Bush" candidate, but Hitler got elected on more than that.

 

I know he is pro Gay-Marriage and pro-abortion. He also seems to be against Tort Law reform, judging by his running mate.

 

Tort Law Reform, as you probably know, is the idea of putting caps on "pain and suffering" in medical lawsuits. I support this. These lawsuits aren't paid by the doctor who made the mistake, they are payed by you and me. The proposal doesn't include an overall cap, just a cap on "pain and suffering".

 

It just kinda reminds me of when that lady got a million dollars because she spilled coffee on herself.

[Bacchus]

It was a very well suited rant, however inane the opinion. Not only generalized a public, but !@#$%^&*umed for others you have never met.

 

As they say..

 

If the hat fits...

 

And i don't have to meet Bush to know he's moronity incarnate. Same goes for Karl Rover, don't have to meet him to know he's competent.

same goes for me you know: Do you have to meet me to gather that i'm very anti-bush, very against everything falling under "USA foreign policies", that i'm a libertarian that ain't giving -*BAD WORD*- about someone sexual orientation, color, culture?

I guess not...so we could still agrre on 1 fact: your comment is as inane as mine.

 

Ail, i wasn't refering specifically to you btw. But then again, if you feel like explaining why you feel that and that, that's fine by me.

Though i'd like to highlight the "WE CATHOLICS"...Insh'allah buddy.