Bush vs. Kerry (domestically)

[Aileron]

I think this forum is missing a whole side of the Bush vs. Kerry issue. Every discussion quickly gets turned into something covering Iraq and the War on Terror. However, this is one small part of the whole issue. If you must discuss politics, please do it elseware, because we have been running two or three topics on the US' foreign politics constantly for a year now.

 

 

Those who discuss foreign politics here will be beaten with an electrically charged trout.

[Dr Brain]

Kerry can't stand up to Bush on domestic stuff either. While I'm no great fan of what Bush has done with some things *cough*perscription drug benefits*cough*, things would only be 10x worse with Kerry.

 

EDIT: I don't know why I posted here. No one who reads this board will have their mind changed by anything anyone else says (myself included, of course).

[Ancient Power]

ha

[Aileron]

They do make a point about saying that Bush's tax cuts only went to the wealthy. However, even if that were true, Kerry is planning on raising taxes. A cross-the board tax hike hurts the lower classes than a tax break for the wealthy.

[MasterDrake]

Ok bush cut taxes expecting them to use the extra money they had and put it toward something that would help the country like create more jobs and products thus making our country recover faster. Now raising taxes in certain places would help but not the whole country I have noticed that my state lost its 4.3billion surplus because of one idiot named Jesse Ventura, raising states taxs there would really help things out but were are talking about the nation so I believe that the taxes should stay the same we don't need anymore members of congress and government employees getting more overpaid than they already are, except for the military I want me money or just let me drink legally.

[Dr.Worthless]

I want me money  or just let me drink legally.

 

BEST -*BAD WORD*- line i've read on these forums since I joined.

 

Worthless. (Who breaks the law everytime he drinks a beer.)

[Manus Celer Dei]

Drinking age is 18 over here

I'll pour some vodka on the pavement in honour of those of you who have to wait longer. :wtfwtf:

 

 

Back on topic, If I could (but I can't because I'm an evil foreigner) I'd vote for Kerry, because anyone who can say "Is our children learning?" is probably not qualified to run a country in an intelligent manner.

[MasterDrake]

nah by that I meant I am young enough to die for my country but not for a beer o_O They changed it in 198-something those -*BAD WORD*-ers, would be nice if it were lower period for everyone but it aint gonna happen but if any of u go for president remember the young people $$

[Aileron]

Manus, that really isn't that good of a reason, Bush is probably the 50 billionth person in history to use the english language incorrectly.

 

On the other hand, I like Bush because he refers to "the tragedy that befell on September 11th, 2001." Kerry, usually just likes to say "nineeleven". I think that event should be held in a more solomn way than two numbers. Thats also a stupid reason for voting, but...

[BG]

Well I'm sorry, But I wouldn't trust our country with Bush.

 

Bush's Thought on the Budget:

It's definitly a Budget' date=' It's gots lots of numbers on it.[/quote']

 

It's gots lots, ladies and gentleman. It's gots lots.

[MasterDrake]

John Kerry's budget

Military 0%

Welfare 40%

Pay for fat congressman and senators 60%

Taxes

Rich 0%

Poor and middle 100%

woot thats how I see it

[Vile Requiem]

Are you joking? Or just insane...

 

If anything, Rumsfeld has decreased military spending due to his "quick strike" mentality, the 87 billion doesn't count as it's for Haliburton and Infastructure.

 

That mentality sounds like Bush except for the welfare bit should be at 0%....if you were being sarcastic it's a good attempt

[Vile Requiem]

Yawn, people who just assume what Fox News says is right piss me off:

 

Bush's Domestic Record, directly and indirectly:

 

- Supports amending the cons!@#$%^&*ution over a pathetically stupid reason, defining "marriage". Why is this wrong? Because this is a christian belief, and America was founded and up until 2000 was run by people who despite their public beliefs (ex: Carter is a devout Christian) governed secularly. This is also why the -*BAD WORD*- over the Pope saying Kerry shouldn't get Communion is just that, -*BAD WORD*-. If the church wants to play politics it should not be a tax-exempt organization.

 

- "No Child Left Behind" remains painfully unfunded

http://www.nea.org/lac/fy04edfunding/

http://www.nea.org/esea/chorus1.html

http://www.nea.org/esea/

 

 

- The Medicare Prescription Drug Bill sucks because the bill forbids Medicare from negotiating lower prescription drug prices

 

- Bush is not fully funding his AIDS initiative as promised. Not only that, but his non-secular mandates that schools teach abstinance as the only way to prevent STD's, and his application of this theory to the AIDS fight is doing an extraordinary amount of harm bordering on m!@#$%^&* homicide, and against nearly all scientific opinion that has been published on the subject. This isn't "Is our children learning", this is real ignorance OR a lack of giving a -*BAD WORD*-. UN Secretary General Kofi Annan has stated the world would need to spend between $7 billion and $10 billion a year to effectively treat HIV/AIDS and other infectious diseases in underdeveloped countries. The Global AIDS Alliance stated, “In 2001, African governments paid $14.6 billion in debt servicing to the IMF, the World Bank and wealthy nation creditors. This extraction of local resources directly undermines all efforts to combat AIDS,”.

 

To be fair, all the G8 countries are screwing AIDS victims. But Bush is joining right in.

 

 

- The Weakening of the CIA was done with 4 years of a Republican Congress. Anyone remember that good ol "Contract with America?"

 

- Not just W, but Bush I and Reagan campaigned on the principle of Smaller Government. Well, guess what...only Clinton shrinked it.

 

-The Patriot Act was prepared ahead of time (if you don't believe that, check when 9/11 happened then check when the Act was passed...it's HUGE, huge things take a while to write) and rammed through a congress that would sign anything patriotic at the time. We all know what this one does, so let's move on.

 

- The amazing defecit bill will come due eventually, and it is YOU that will be screwed when it happens. Paticularly when you have a loan.

 

- Better use for the Clinton Surplus: Use it to prop up Social Security. Now thanks to said deficit it's doomed. Thanks 2 tax cuts!

 

- Bush n' Pals are working to dismantle the US Federal Court system (besides the Supreme, which is mandated by the Cons!@#$%^&*ution). Leaders will take their first step next week when they take up Rep. John Hostettler’s (R-Ind.) “jurisdiction stripping” bill. This would bar federal courts from hearing lawsuits related to gay sex and marriage.

 

- Someone in the White House leaked Amb!@#$%^&*ador Plame's wife's status as a CIA undercover agent, which is a treasonous offense.

 

- Cheney's Energy Task Force meetings, which likely met with Enron and Haliburton among others to determine national energy policy. In bed with the electric companies = you get screwed.

 

- Lying in numerous State of the Union addresses (aka: to Congress and the entire nation), which certainly counts as a high crime or misdemeanor post-Clinton.

 

- massively anti-enviroment, so much so that Christie Todd Whitman, ex-Jersey Governor [Republican] resigned as head of the EPA in disgust. All began with the backing out of the Kyoto treaty. Bush is on record as saying that Global Warming is bull, again against all scientific opinion on the subject

 

- John Dean, former Nixon Aide, publically lists quite a few other Bush lies in his ridiculously sourced book, "Worse then Watergate." The man worked for NIXON and he's saying this...

 

- And finally, because this is long enough already, the genocide in Somalia currently vastly outpaces anything Saddam EVER did to his own people. There goes the "Saddam is an EVIL MAN" excuse, so now there is NO REASON for iraq. NONE. Unless Bush goes into Somalia, which he isn't. Know why not? Somalia has NO NATURAL RESOURCES (ala OIL)

 

So in essence Bush has flip flopped on every major promise he's ever made besides the one to go to Iraq and to fight gay marriage. On the other hand, as Kerry has not been President yet, he has no official policy to flip flop on, only a campaign platform to revise as issues come up. It's called "Learning"...if you burn your hand once will you touch the hot object again? Didn't think so. Iraq sounded good before when Saddam allegedly had evil WMD, anyone with 2 brain cells and isn't in this Administration can see it's a bad idea now and the president lied about it.

 

Bush makes open references to "God influencing his policy" when the president is supposed to be secular. He has been quoted as saying that God appointed him President after the recounts

 

Considering as the election is a referendum on the President's skill in doing his job for the past 4 years, there's no way in -*BAD WORD*- i'd vote for him.

[Aileron]

*laughs at Vile because he either can't read the only topic rule, or thinks Somalia is a US State*

 

*smacks Vile with electric trout*

 

The CIA if anything deserves to be weakened. They have a history of incompetency since they were created. Admittingly, when they do things right, no one ever knows about it. However, the CIA has a history of screwing things up and funding would be better spent on the NSA.

 

-Bush is against gay marriage on partisan lines - so what? That's politics - you support your party. Besides cons!@#$%^&*utional amendments are decided by Congress. The President has little to do with it.

 

-"No Child Left Behind" was a bill proposed by Bush, but legislated by Congress. Since one doesn't need to be President to propose a bill, it shouldn't really affect the decision in question.

 

-Medicare will be fixed by Congress, not the executive branch.

 

-Foreign politics, but since its not Iraq, I'll spare you the electric trout torture, for now. Look, this situations prove what I know to be true. Governments are both incapable and unwilling to be charity organizations. Bush knows this, and has made it so that the federal government helps even faith-based charity organizations. Face it, governments are too buerocratic to be truly charitable, so Bush is giving the money to other charity organizations. Atheists won't like this, but at this point, we really can't be picky with which charity organization to support.

 

-The CIA has a history of incompetence, ever since its inception. Their money should be diverted to the NSA, or probably the secret organizations we don't know about.

 

-Clinton shrinked the military.

 

-The Patriot Act was ultimately done by Congress.

 

-The deficit was caused by the tech bubble burst, which is a problem Bush really inherited rather than caused.

 

-Social Security won't get fixed until the economy gets fixed, which Bush is doing.

 

-They are trying to strike against the 90 some year old Supreme Court justices who won't retire. Its another example of partisan politics which will neither be solved by Bush nor Kerry.

 

-Yeah, and when Bush finds the leak, whoever it is will likely be shot.

 

-First of let me point out the you don't KNOW that those companies are there. Secondly, Bush is the only President who is pro-Nuclear in a long time. In my opinion Nuclear is the most practical and safe of evironmental choices.

 

-He gave the CIA intelligence reports. Its not Bush's fault that the CIA is incompetent.

 

-You got one there, although I agree with his opinion on Kyoto.

 

-So?

 

-First, I'm smacking you with the electrically charged trout for that. Secondly, this is all conjecture. Third, let me point out that Bush doesn't make money from oil any more. Fourth, there are THREE grounds in morality - right, wrong, and nuetral. The only thing for sure is that not attacking a country is always nuetral, and attacking can be any one of the three. Fifth, if Clinton did his job, Bush wouldn't have to worry about either Iraq or Somolia, and would be able to properly focus on the War on Terror.

 

Please, nobody reply to that last comment. We don't need another pointless discussion about Iraq.

[Aileron]

Oh, and as a Catholic, I support the Pope not backing Kerry. We are making ONE major political stance, of which we can make many. We could make an official fuss about gay marriage, but we don't. Heck, the Catholic Church could make a religious stance against Muslims if we wanted to (although that would definetly be extremist and backwards.)

 

The point is, that the Catholic Church is making only one political stance on abortion. If Kerry can't support that one stance, he really has no business in our religion. In this world, one hand washes the other. If Bush makes effort to help the Church, and Kerry does all he can to destroy the Church, why should the Church support Kerry?

[MonteZuma]

The pope should butt out of domestic politics in free and democratic nations. If the US people want the right to choose an abortion then the pope can go screw himself.

 

Kerry isn't trying to destroy the church. The pope and other senior people in the church do that job well enough on their own. Pfft.

 

The pope should take a stand against pedophilia more than anything else. Dirty catholic -*BAD WORD*-s.

[Live-Wire]

How can you say the CIA has a history of incompetency when you, nearly by definition, only hear of its failures and not a whisper of its accomplishments?

 

Thread not worth posting in.

[Dr Brain]

Gay marraige: Way more than 50% of the population don't want it. That's reason enough to p!@#$%^&* a law against it. Same applies to abortion, BTW.

 

No, not everyone in the US is a christian. But the majority of the population has christian values. That means that the laws of this great nation should reflect that. We were founded in the morals of the Holy Bible, and we have come as far as we have because of that. Abandoning that now will help no one.

[BG]

Don't you love it when the same people who are screwing the CIA at every turn Blame them every time something bad happens? Jeez.

[Dr.Worthless]

Yawn, people who just assume what Fox News says is right piss me off:

 

Bush's Domestic Record, directly and indirectly:

I won't really take the time to post on this thread, I just wanted to say that Vile, next time you want to write up trash like that, please back up your claims with sitations. I found it rather amusing that you start the post by bashing Fox News regurgitators, then proceded to post a left wing news organization regurgitation.

 

 

 

The pope should butt out of domestic politics in free and democratic nations. If the US people wan't the right to choose an abortion then the pope can go screw himself.

 

Sorry, if it goes against church law the pope has full power to tell the member to go screw himself. The pope is the leader of the catholic church, right? Please don't tell me that being a member of the Catholic church is now a civil right, regardless of beliefs.

[MasterDrake]

First of we already stated that the iraqi war would stay out so STFU about it.

 

2. The military has been given much more funding since bush has been in office I think I would know I am the -*BAD WORD*- thing wanna see my pay check.

 

3. -*BAD WORD*- welfare all 90% of the people on it shouldn't be because people take advantage of the system.

 

4. Don't believe what is on your tv people do some research to make sure that it is legit.

 

 

5. The catholic church has no right and will unlikely not have any say because if I were the press I would probaly throw the "Molesting Of Boys" Right back at them. I'm not trying to piss you off aileron I agree with pretty much all you said except about the religious parts.

 

6. Here is a my immature comment "-*BAD WORD*- GAY MARRIAGE"

[MonteZuma]

The pope should butt out of domestic politics in free and democratic nations. If the US people wan't the right to choose an abortion then the pope can go screw himself.

 

Sorry, if it goes against church law the pope has full power to tell the member to go screw himself. The pope is the leader of the catholic church, right? Please don't tell me that being a member of the Catholic church is now a civil right, regardless of beliefs.

Freedom of religion is the civil right I think is being trampled on. US democracy is screwed when the US president's own policies and views need to be approved by the pope.

 

The president himself needs to tell the pope to go screw himself. He won't, because there are too many zealots in the US. Religion and US politics are far from seperate.

[50% Packetloss]

The president isn't catholic, go read the cons!@#$%^&*ution and tell me where it says that there is a separation of church and state, find yourself a better banner, you know nothing about freedom, the pope can do whatever he -*BAD WORD*- well wants to -- he is a senile old man that just wants everyone to get along-- not to mention that he is smarter than anyone here and speaks a -*BAD WORD*- load of languages, freedom of religion gives citizens the right to practice any religion that they wish--i have no idea what you think it means but its apparent that you are wrong,

"He won't, because there are too many zealots in the US. Religion and US politics are far from seperate." is a fragment, not even a sentence. Learn English and learn to spell ‘separate’

 

I could probably pick apart your post some more, but I don’t have the patience to read your inane arguments. Now go scamper over to dictionary.com and look up inane: you don't know what it means.

[50% Packetloss]

Gay marraige: Way more than 50% of the population don't want it. That's reason enough to p!@#$%^&* a law against it. Same applies to abortion, BTW.

 

No, not everyone in the US is a christian. But the majority of the population has christian values. That means that the laws of this great nation should reflect that. We were founded in the morals of the Holy Bible, and we have come as far as we have because of that. Abandoning that now will help no one.

I'm not sure where you are getting your figures because they look like -*BAD WORD*- to me. Just think of all the TV shows are aimed at the gay demographic and how popular they are: -*BAD WORD*- Eye, Trading Spaces, Will and Grace, American Idol. I see a different story, it seems that gay culture is acceptable and if some silly piece of paper (marriage permit) is so important to them then I couldn’t give 2 -*BAD WORD*-s if they get it. It’s not the government's job to enforce morals (!@#$%^&*uming that you have a problem with gay marriage). The purposes of rights are to protect citizens from the government, not from some backwards-Christian notion of what marriage is. The only argument against gay marriage is the "what’s next? People marrying their dogs?" argument. Reasonable argument if you like eating paint chips. It’s my belief that once something, such as begin gay, has become acceptable in society, it may be time to consider changing some laws. I don’t think sex0ring your dog will ever become acceptable, but it’s possible.

[Aileron]

Well, TV shows are definitely not a proper way to view the american public's opinion. When you think about it, producers don't even need to get the populace to like the show, just the ratings censors.

 

BTW, half those shows are not technically gay, and "Will and Grace" is ironically doing good by a playing a rather unususal Male-Female relationship.

 

 

The "Marrying one's dog" arguement does point out a moral question. How can somebody say one is right and the other wrong? The only difference between the two is that there are more homosexuals than bestials, and you can't play it by numbers, because then heterosexuals would be better than homosexuals.

 

 

However, I got an even better one. See, in order for gays to marry, they have to force their defignition of marriage on everyone else. My should the clear minority get dictation rights over the majority?

 

 

Monte, you don't understand his post. The point is that Kerry does not have a civil right to the Church, and if he is not following our beliefs, he doesn't belong here. Its really the Church's call and athiests such as yourself should just stay out of it.