Iraqi POW's

[D|sadvantage]

I don't know if any of you have heard about all the terrible things that the US and British troops are doing to their Iraqi prisoners of war, but I'm sickened by it. Yesterday I was watching the news and these are just tw of the things I heard and saw: A British troop peeing on an Iraqi POW who had a bag over hsi head, and a pyramid shaped m!@#$%^&* of (supposedly living) naked Iraqi POWs forced to smile with a US troop behind them. Although it's said that the major authorities didn't knwo about it, it shouldn't matter. How are people like that gettting into the US military, and if Bush DOES re-instate the drafting program, how many more will there be? I think that America needs to get Bush out of there, because I've heard it's the law, that if he starts an official WAR on Iraq, he can't be voted out for another term at least.

 

Now I've said my peace.

 

Here's More

[50% Packetloss]

Those few Military Police soldiers have some serious mental issues and they will be dealt with in a military tribunal.

You are terribly misinformed about the draft, just because a bill makes it congress does not mean its going to be passed. If the politicians want to keep their jobs (and they want to really really bad) then they will reject it, clearly we don't need more military; we are already the strongest nation in the world. If you don't vote for Bush, then you are voting for Karry, which is even worse. So I'm going with the Brewster's Millions approach and voting for none of the above.

I have no idea what you are talking about in your last sentence; not only is it poorly written, it's completely wrong. A president can lose an election if we are at war, its just hard to do. The United States has not declared war on Iraq, so go read a newspaper and come back to this forum. While your at it, read the cons!@#$%^&*ution.

If you have authority over 100k troops that are still in Iraq, it is difficult to patrol them all. Its much like crime happening in your country; its imposable to keep tabs on everyone and a criminal's actions do not reflect the at!@#$%^&*ude of your entire nation. The media is a corporation out to make profit. They do not have the responsibility to tell the truth or to give the other side of the story. The point being is that you should put some analysis into something you read.

[D|sadvantage]

You are terribly misinformed about the draft, just because a bill makes it congress does not mean its going to be passed. If the politicians want to keep their jobs (and they want to really really bad) then they will reject it, clearly we don't need more military; we are already the strongest nation in the world.

1. I may be misinformed, as I am not an American myself. However, I did say, "if Bush DOES re-instate the drafting program". Key word there being "if".

 

I have no idea what you are talking about in your last sentence; not only is it poorly written, it's completely wrong. A president can lose an election if we are at war, its just hard to do. The United States has not declared war on Iraq, so go read a newspaper and come back to this forum. While your at it, read the cons!@#$%^&*ution.

 

1. I was in a bit of a hurry when I wrote this, sorry for the bad spelling and grammar.

 

2. As I have already pointed out I am not American, and therefore have to base what I know about the US on what I have heard. Obviously I know that Bush hasn't YET declared an official war on Iraq, as again I used the term "if". Also, I have no clue what the cons!@#$%^&*ution says in the first place.

 

If you have authority over 100k troops that are still in Iraq, it is difficult to patrol them all. Its much like crime happening in your country; its imposable to keep tabs on everyone and a criminal's actions do not reflect the at!@#$%^&*ude of your entire nation. The media is a corporation out to make profit. They do not have the responsibility to tell the truth or to give the other side of the story. The point being is that you should put some analysis into something you read.

 

1. Even at 100k troops, somebody with the power to end this should have known. I find it ridiculous that not one single commanding officer new anything of this.

 

2. I believe that the majority of media is corrupt, but that does not mean that all forms of news and information is. There are clear pictures of British and US troops toruring Iraqi prisoners of war. If you check the link I posted you'll see what I mean. Also, it's quite clear that what the newspapers and I are saying is true and just as these oficers are gettting in deep trouble.

 

3. If you thik that I put no thought into what I said or read, that is your problem. Obviously you don;t have the capacity to believe that some of your own people did something wrong.

[50% Packetloss]

I believe criminals did something wrong, not my "own people."

[Bacchus]

US didn't declared war on Iraq, true...they did declare war on terror and by a very weird twist of fate, Saddam just happened to transform from a bloodthirsty dictator to a ruthless terrorist. The thing is, US got him out of power now Us should just get the -*BAD WORD*- out since it's quite obvious they can't handle the situation.

 

Concerning the abuse:

Considering that the US did took action unilaterally, it's only natural to assume that US military personnel should be adequatly disciplined by their superior. Or are the US army composed of a bunch of lil' Saddams?

 

Of course, americans aren't criminals...but you should be aware that the average american as seen on tv, news, etc around the world is an american SOLDIER. Those images are just increasing the uneasiness. And they are quite unsettling, now i hope you'll admit as much.

 

Furthermore, it seems that Def. Sec. Rumsfeld have known for 3 months about those...ahem...measures and not informed the appropriate authority.

 

Of all the occupational force, only US face such adversity...why?

 

Face it, US+Iraq= -*BAD WORD*-ed.

 

U

[D|sadvantage]

You also have to wonder about the fact that even though claims were made of "Weapons of M!@#$%^&* Destruction" in Iraq, none were found by the British Investigators. If bush wanted to start a war with lots of support, that wasn;t how to do it.

[Dav]

there are people in this world that are rasict and will act upon that. I think that the abuse is a combination of raceism and thje fact that some people are just violant.

 

The damage this has done to an already delicate situation is unknown but its is obivious that keeping the paeace and gaint the view within the public that the US and UK are allies will now be more difficault then ever.

[MonteZuma]

Concerning the abuse:

Considering that the US did took action unilaterally, it's only natural to assume that US military personnel should be adequatly disciplined by their superior.  Or are the US army composed of a bunch of lil' Saddams?

Well...Apparently some senior officers and maybe some people very high up the chain of command knew about these crimes. It isn't really surprising that they tried to cover them up.

 

This case should go to the International War Crimes Tribunal or some other respected International body so that there can be no doubt that the matter was investigated thoroughly and without bias.

[MonteZuma]

there are people in this world that are rasict and will act upon that.  I think that the abuse is a combination of raceism and thje fact that some people are just violant.

Perhaps. But I suspect that these abuses are just acts perpertrated by people under extreme pressure who had been desensitised by their training and their war experience and had forgotten that the enemy was just as human (or inhuman) as they are. Basically...They lost it. But just as anyone who is under stress and loses it in the civilian world is punished, so should these people.

 

The system (and people) that allowed this to happen should also be scrutinised.

 

Setting all that aside...I can't believe that they were dumb enough to take photos.

[Tipme]

theres also this video on ebaum crushing their car becuase they were looting

 

so bad so bad

everything should just stop now

i mean U.S is completely ignoring what the cons!@#$%^&*ution says

dont get involved in foreign affairs

[Live-Wire]

1) Bush blames Kerry for not supporting our soldiers, then points fingers at a bunch of PRIVATES when he gets blamed for this stuff.

 

2) Some Iraqi preacher was going on about "how could these people do it and enjoy it?" Images of two civilian contractors burned alive, pulled into pieces, then hung from a bridge while random Iraqis (not soldiers, mind you) rejoiced come to mind.

 

3) Peeing on your head? -*BAD WORD*-, are you kidding? Sounds like a fraternity initiation. Ever hear of Vietnam? How about Nazi Death Camps?

 

 

----

 

Anyway I don't really believe its not a problem, but thats what happens in these places. Did you really ever think otherwise? Oh, and sure, the CIA doesn't torture people.

 

Three generations ago, the generation was defined by intra-European Conflict. Two generations ago, by the Cold War. One generation ago, by Vietnam and the transition to American Hegemony. This generation... mark down my prediction...

 

The 21st Century Race Wars.

[MonteZuma]

1) Bush blames Kerry for not supporting our soldiers, then points fingers at a bunch of PRIVATES when he gets blamed for this stuff.

 

2) Some Iraqi preacher was going on about "how could these people do it and enjoy it?" Images of two civilian contractors burned alive, pulled into pieces, then hung from a bridge while random Iraqis (not soldiers, mind you) rejoiced come to mind.

 

3) Peeing on your head? -*BAD WORD*-, are you kidding? Sounds like a fraternity initiation. Ever hear of Vietnam? How about Nazi Death Camps?

 

 

----

 

Anyway I don't really believe its not a problem, but thats what happens in these places. Did you really ever think otherwise? Oh, and sure, the CIA doesn't torture people.

 

Three generations ago, the generation was defined by intra-European Conflict. Two generations ago, by the Cold War. One generation ago, by Vietnam and the transition to American Hegemony. This generation... mark down my prediction...

 

The 21st Century Race Wars.

(1) Indeed.

 

(2) Two wrongs don't make a right. Punish the guilty on both sides.

 

(3) Those pictures haven't been authenticated yet. But being peed on in a fraternity initiation isn't quite the same as being peed on by folks from another country who captured you in your own country at gunpoint, speak another language and point a machine gun at your head. That is a kind of fear you and I will hopefully never experience.

 

If you hold your military up as being squeekly clean, professional and brave, and present the enemy as being vile, das-*BAD WORD*-ly and cowardly - you really have set yourself up for a fall when this kind of thing happens

 

Maybe its time to acknowledge that it isn't as simple as the Iraqis wear the black hats and the US wears the white hats. Maybe there are shades of grey on both sides. Remember the US woman who was captured (rescued more like) by the Iraqis early in the invasion? Maybe some of the white hats belong on the enemy's head, and some of the black ones on ours?

 

As for race wars? Sounds worthy of a new thread. I thought race was an outdated concept?

[D|sadvantage]

3) Peeing on your head? -*BAD WORD*-, are you kidding? Sounds like a fraternity initiation. Ever hear of Vietnam? How about Nazi Death Camps?

Just becuase the Nazis had death camps and the Allies defeated them, doesn't mean the US has the right to do these things to Iraqis. I hope thats not what you were saying.

[Bacchus]

no, no, no...not quite..

 

Live was saying that the iraqis were graduating from barbarism 101 to submission 201 under the ever loving eyes of the glorious american soldiers. Hence the analogy between peeing and undergraduates initiation.

 

Next they'll have a drinking party at Orlando beach with nude "saved" iraqis women flashing their boobs to the watchful eyes of CNN and everyone will be happy again.

 

 

Gotta love american pedagogic strategy!

[D|sadvantage]

no, no, no...not quite..

 

Live was saying that the iraqis were graduating from barbarism 101 to submission 201 under the ever loving eyes of the glorious american soldiers.  Hence the analogy between peeing and undergraduates initiation.

 

Next they'll have a drinking party at Orlando beach with nude "saved" iraqis women flashing their boobs to the watchful eyes of CNN and everyone will be happy again.

 

 

Gotta love american pedagogic strategy!

I'm going to assume you were kidding about most of that...

[DaKillaRoach]

Men, we British can handle the situation over there; thats why we have hardly lost anyone since we took over our parts of Iraq, but truthfully Ive got no care to what happened. Some people are like that; war does things to people mind, and hey, with the amount of Racial hate I have against people like those in Iraq I see nothing wrong with it in the sense they are getting something back, be it them or their friends that caused it.

 

It has happened, and Iraq seems like a lost cause from the start.

 

This reminds me of a certain quote someone once said, on TV infact...

 

'When Saddam was in control he was killing and threatening people to keep em quiet; we come in and take him down and now we have to do the killing and threatening but we don't like it'

 

I am just happy to sit down here in Wales and enjoy my self without worrying about the rest of this -*BAD WORD*-ered up world

[D|sadvantage]

1) Ive got no care to what happened

 

2) with the amount of Racial hate I have against people like those in Iraq I see nothing wrong with it

 

3) I am just happy to sit down here in Wales and enjoy my self without worrying about the rest of this -*BAD WORD*-ered up world 

1) Then why are you posting here?

 

2) I see no reason for you to have racial hate against Iraqis, unless you stereotype all Arab people. If you are racist you deserve a whoopin!

 

3) You think the world is messed up, what about you! ^^^

[DaKillaRoach]

Just posting my views on these things, and Im not messed up, well not as far as I know In fact

 

'I dont suffer from insanity... I enjoy every minute of it...'

 

yes... quite... anyway... lol

 

And just for you to realise, no matter what you say, there is a racial hate in this world that has always been and I am willing to put ol' bet on it that there always will be, in fact I would claim pretty much every person out there has some sort of racial hate or anger towards another, Ive seen enough of it.

 

Plus I feel I have a darned good reason to hate Iraq's without getting into my personal life thank you very much.

 

And one more note; I dont try and be racist, but I couldnt care if that was labelled on me. Naedhaha will chuckle when he reads this though if he does, lots of this sort of thing is talked commonly on 17th chat and some interesting things are said XD

[Dav]

Men, we British can handle the situation over there; thats why we have hardly lost anyone since we took over our parts of Iraq, but truthfully Ive got no care to what happened. Some people are like that; war does things to people mind, and hey, with the amount of Racial hate I have against people like those in Iraq I see nothing wrong with it in the sense they are getting something back, be it them or their friends that caused it.

 

It has happened, and Iraq seems like a lost cause from the start.

 

This reminds me of a certain quote someone once said, on TV infact...

 

'When Saddam was in control he was killing and threatening people to keep em quiet; we come in and take him down and now we have to do the killing and threatening but we don't like it'

 

I am just happy to sit down here in Wales and enjoy my self without worrying about the rest of this -*BAD WORD*-ered up world 

yea the brits did a good job.

 

Comare basra and baghdad.

 

british forses resored law and order quicly, US forces are still struggling to. In fact british forces had to train the US.

[DaKillaRoach]

We have the experiance from Ireland, and other trouble some areas we keep a hush-hush at!@#$%^&*ude which works well with the population. They know we are their but we stay out of troubles way and basically watch over with a friendly eye unlike the Americans Gung-ho at!@#$%^&*ude to everything.

[D|sadvantage]

unlike the Americans Gung-ho at!@#$%^&*ude to everything.

Finally something we agree on. :jules:

[Sammi]

There have been a lot of rumors about the british soldiers, no one knows what to believe anymore <_<

[Dav]

There have been a lot of rumors about the british soldiers, no one knows what to believe anymore <_<

i think it was staged tio get money from the media.

 

We have the experiance from Ireland, and other trouble some areas we keep a hush-hush at!@#$%^&*ude which works well with the population. They know we are their but we stay out of troubles way and basically watch over with a friendly eye unlike the Americans Gung-ho at!@#$%^&*ude to everything.

 

Mostly from kossavo accually.

[Sammi]

heh yah well, meh, the world today!

[»ZiGNoTZaG]

worse things are done to americans, by americans, inside american prisons.