Spider attach bty

[Delic]

Forgive my ignorance' date=' but I don't seem to understand your argument. You could either be saying that the old settings suited the zone in terms of theme (Vietnam), or that they are superior because they were the original settings created.[/quote']

 

They weren't the original settings.. there were different tweaks made before Nurples made his changes..

But these tweaks were made by people who knew what they were doing, and they had a right to tweak because they knew our community, unlike Nurples, and Zeke just asked random newbies.

 

What I'm saying is that the designers of the settings had the whole gameplay in mind while creating/tweaking, and they knew the what effects the changes would have on the gameplay.

Zeke on the other hand barely even played this game, so of course he wouldn't know what he was doing.

 

Thematically' date=' I see no reason why conforming to the Vietnam idea should be so important, and any argument made stating that the old settings worked better because it fits the theme is tenuous at best.[/quote']

 

It's not just because it fits the theme, it's also because of the feel of gameplay that it gives a player and because all the ships were made for a specific purpose, each ship had a mission and was best at fighting in its own way.

I think it's the variation that made it great and have a player such freedom. That's why people hated the ship settings changes, it took away that freedom.

 

Warbird: Troop carrier.

Javelin: Fighter craft.

Spider: Ambush craft.

Leviathan: Long range heavy bomber.

Terrier: All-purpose support craft.

Lancaster: Close range bomber.

Shark: Cloakable fighter/bomber.

 

I mean, come on. How can you even try to argue this?

 

Yes' date=' the zone is '17th Parallel', but I would hardly describe Trench Wars as an accurate depiction of the Great War.[/quote']

 

I don't see how Trench Wars is relevant, we're discussing our zone here.

 

 

The latter argument is also flawed - what has been done cannot be undone. The 17th of today is different of that of yesteryear' date=' not only in terms of settings and maps but also players, whom, as you had acknowledged above, might not (and, as Sever and Talion proved above) welcome the change back.[/quote']

 

Tell me, did people welcome the new settings? No, they didn't. In fact, most of the players hated them. Did anyone care? No.

So I mean, even if all these newbies hated the old settings (which I'm sure they wouldn't after giving it a try and getting better at them because yes, the old settings would higher their level of skills since they're used to the current ships which are easier to use), we'd still have all these people who don't take this game as serious and just play whatever we give them.

 

And if you ask me, I'd rather have a zone with settings that could be called our own, with settings that were designed for this zone, settings that took real skills to master, than have a zone with settings that were crippled by people who never seemed to care what people thought.

 

Our current settings fit the players we have: any change of such magnitude would likely only drive them away.

 

Wrong. Our current settings fits no one. In fact' date=' there's been more complaints about the settings [b']after[/b] they changed them than before, so how can you say that?

And I can !@#$%^&*ure you that we'll have all kinds of problems with the gameplay until someone either changes them back to the ones we had before (with some tweaks like burst damage and a new fighter weasel, which were the ONLY changes necessary), or makes a new one from scratch. I heard Vile was going to do this (new setts), we'll see how that works

 

See' date=' that's what made 17th different: team work between different ships was required.

A team couldn't attack another team with only one type of ship, because the team that used all the ships would win by taking advantage of the other ship's weaknesses.

 

That's what made the old settings so great and fun, the variation between the ships and the fact that a team could only be successful by combining the ships.[/quote']

 

On the contrary, almost any zone has a similar system. Can you say that there is no teamwork between differing ships in DSB? In TW? In MG?

 

Of course there is, but the need of a variation of ships in a team isn't as needed as it was needed in 17th, since the ships were so different from eachother, they were basically all different kinds of ships, unlike dsb who has 4 fighters, 2 bombers and 2 empers/fighters.

 

Again, I don't understand how you can try to argue with this.

Are you saying that the the old ships weren't all that different from eachother?

 

That's why the new settings are considered less fun by us who've played with the old settings.

 

A generalisation' date=' no doubt. Consider how few of 'us' there are left. Why should the zone change for the whims of the minority?[/quote']

 

Because the gameplay would be more fun for everyone. I wouldn't want the old settings back if I didn't think it would be for the best of the entire zone.

They required more skills, they were harder to get good at, which means that newbies would have to develop their skills in order to get better.

 

And do you think that the players we currently have will also consider old settings more fun than the new?

 

There's no doubt about it. As soon as they understand the settings and how they work' date=' I'm sure they'd never want to see the current settings again.

More variation = more fun, how can you not agree with me on this?

The gameplay is like a game of chess, the settings have basically taken away half of the pieces and crippled the game by doing so. No fun.

 

If a levi is heading towards a base when there's a spider in it' date=' -*BAD WORD*- nah it's not equal terms, and the levi would learn that, and that would force the pilot to use another ship which was more suitable for the situation that he was facing.[/quote']

 

I fail to see how that's not applicable today.

 

The new ships were tweaked so that all ships could kill any other ship.

This is obvious so if you can't even see that then I don't think we'll be getting much out of this discussion.

 

As I've said' date=' the old settings didn't work because they were judged by the "testers" before they even gave them a chance.[/quote']

 

How can you have such confidence that old settings will attract players when there has been no such precedent before? It seems no more than mere guesswork to me, and I don't see how you can base an entire argument upon a supposition.

 

I have explained over and over again why. It feels like I've been repeating myself this whole time..

I'm not supposing anything, I know this for a fact, I know how this zone works, I know a lot about how shipsetts work and what kind of impact the changes have given the gameplay, and I know about the mistakes made in the past.

 

I know what I'm talking about.

 

Unlike talion who still doesn't have a clue, so I won't even bother replying to him, heh.

 

Delic most of your so called vets left pub before the settings were changed if you remember.

 

Well' date=' the settings were changed a lot of times. It's the changes made by Nurples, someone who didn't have a clue what he was doing, that I consider as the "new setting changes", along with Zeke's.

 

He tweaked the settings way before Zeke did, and before mummy was uploaded.

He was criticized for the changes he made, and wasn't even concerned.

 

Most of our vets left when they felt like 17th was nothing as the 17th they once knew, like Night Dragon for example.

 

We were all tired of the weasel and not being able to go anywhere inside bases without being wiped out by spiders or terriers.

 

Not being able to go anywhere with a Jav perhaps, that's why team work was more required back then.

 

It was fun i agree but it didn't last because it didn't require much skill to master.

 

Are you kidding me? That's a ridiculous thing to say.. I don't think I've heard anyone who's supposed to be a vet say anything more stupid before.

The old settings took months of playing to truly master' date=' unlike the current ones that take much less.

 

Once you knew how to weasel bomb' date=' or mine rep in the terr or cloak aand burst in the spider it didn't require anymore skills and became boring.[/quote']

 

Yeah, and once you figured out how to win at this game that became boring too.

Please

 

Making the ships more equal won't reduce teamwork. There was less teamwork back then than there is now.

 

I didn't say that it would reduce team work. Team work is always needed in a team' date=' how much team work people use all depends on the players who're in the game.

What I said was that by making the ships similar to eachother, the need of different ships would reduce.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

If you make two spawn points and input some turf flags it'll rock as far as teamwork is concerned and we can get a real 17th war going on that requires skills to master and not specialist ship attributes that can be learnt/mastered in a week. you must understand this surely.

 

Two spawn points, you mean like, the teams spawn inside their own base?

What would there be to fight about then? If the teams already spawn inside a base.

 

And I don't know why you say that the old ships can be mastered in a week, I think a lot of vets would say that it took them awhile to get good at them.

The only ships that didn't take much to master would be the old weasel and the spider.

The old weasel should've been replaced with a new fighter to compete with the jav and the spider's burst damage should've been reduced, that's all.

All other ships were perfect for this zone, and don't ask me again how I can say this because I've proved it already.

 

I also don't understand how you can dislike ships that are specialized in different things, that's what makes it fun and more realistic.

 

The old 17th made sense and should be put back because they were (for the most part) designed after real things, that's what made 17th fun and interesting.

 

I do believe we need a new map though, that's what we needed in the first place.

Jim tell me you still have the map you had uploaded in ?go PubMap before they uploaded mummy in pub ;D

[SeVeR]

The jav is the perfect example of a basic ship that requires a great amount of skill to be a master at. When ships are made for one purpose like suicide-bombing or bursting in a base there is only so much to learn about it. I admit there must be some variation in ships but not of the sort that was in the old sets. If every ship was able to defend itself in a head-to-head fight whilst each having one specialist item for use in bases that'd be so much more fun.

[Yupa]

a game is a game

 

whether you're owning someone in a jav out in the open, or bursting them in a base with a spider - it's all the same

 

it is incredibly easy to avoid being bursted by a spider, it's just that most of the players in the zone are newbs

[SeVeR]

I don't know if the map is still up anywhere and i don't know if i have it because it would be on my old comp.

 

i think you misunderstood my idea for pub maybe because i failed to desreibe it properly.

 

My idea is for 4 bases NW,NE,SE,SW of center and one freq spawns between NW/NE and the other between the south bases. So they don't spawn in the bases just closer to one set than the other. I'm not talking massive bases either.. just strongholds maybe a little smaller than east/west are atm, each one different in structure so it doesn't get boring. Each base has 1 flag in so it is possible successfully defend and attack and its easy to see when you're winning.

[DaKillaRoach]

Sort of like the ?go Elemental map that was up (dont know if it still is) which had those 4 bases? That would prove interesting... and a diff change in each one would good, but then again that map reminds me of a mini version of SWR because of the tight-tight corridors.

[Tempest]

I have explained over and over again why. It feels like I've been repeating myself this whole time..

I'm not supposing anything, I know this for a fact, I know how this zone works, I know a lot about how shipsetts work and what kind of impact the changes have given the gameplay, and I know about the mistakes made in the past.

 

I know what I'm talking about.

How on earth do you know that for a fact? What evidence have you based this on?

 

A fact is something we base on and support with evidence. The Earth revolves around the Sun. The sky is blue. People die. These are facts. Simply saying 'trust me because I know I'm right' isn't enough without adequate evidence to back it up. I'm not saying you don't know about ship settings, or gameplay, or how the zone works. I'm saying you have no evidence nor precendent to base the !@#$%^&*umption (and !@#$%^&*umption it is) that players will prefer old sets to the new.

 

And to address minor points:

 

Why do you say that the old settings required more skill than the new ones? One could argue that the new settings require skill, simply in a different way. A good pilot will still be far superior to a new one, and it still takes a fair amount of time to 'master' a ship. Skill is relative, and difficult to quantify. Your definition is moulded by oldsets, and that perspective may no longer apply to our current settings.

 

(which I'm sure they wouldn't after giving it a try and getting better at them because yes, the old settings would higher their level of skills since they're used to the current ships which are easier to use)

 

You keep saying that you're sure that newers players will do this, or like that, but again you fail to present any real evidence apart from personal !@#$%^&*umption.

 

The new ships were tweaked so that all ships could kill any other ship.

But ships are still different enough to ensure distinct advantages and disadvantages in the various possible matchups.

 

There seems to be a contradiction in your argument. Consider a zone where all the ships are equal: much like a single ship event. Now, consider a zone where one ship is vastly superior to another, whilst being utterly useless against a third ship type.

 

Which one requires more skill?

 

The first, of course: a pilot killing another pilot in exactly the same ship, with no advantages or disadvantages is able to prove his 'skill'. After all. he/she defeated an opponent on equal terms.

 

In the latter case, consider what happens when a pilot destroys an enemy using ship which is vastly superior to his/her opponent's. One would logically assume that the skill involved in this case would be far less than the above example.

 

So how, exactly, can you argue that making each ship more distinct makes the zone more skillful?

 

Further, even if you refute the arguments above, why are 'skills' required for a zone to be successful? I pointed out TW in the above post as an example of a zone which is considered by many to be unthematic and lacking in skill, yet one can hardly say that it's an unsuccessful zone. I'm not applying the same principles to 17th; I'm simply pointing out a case where your argument seems not to apply.

 

I do believe we need a new map though, that's what we needed in the first place.

 

Preposterous! Absolutely ridiculous! Why, if we listened to your suggestions, we'd... er...

 

Wait, I agree with this one.

 

(Note:

 

Hmm. To clarify, it may seem from the above few posts that I hate pre-change 17th. I don't. If there is to be a change, then I would favor pre-change settings as much (if not more) than a completely new map and settings - simply because they have been tested extensively before and proven to be (relatively) balanced. A completely new 17th, in my opinion, runs an even higher risk than a reversion to our previous settings, unless the matter is handled with the utmost of care and consideration to our newer players. )

[talion]

i'm sorry delic. you were owned

tempest just said everything that needed saying right here.

 

 

 

How on earth do you know that for a fact? What evidence have you based this on?

 

A fact is something we base on and support with evidence. The Earth revolves around the Sun. The sky is blue. People die. These are facts. Simply saying 'trust me because I know I'm right' isn't enough without adequate evidence to back it up. I'm not saying you don't know about ship settings' date=' or gameplay, or how the zone works. I'm saying you have no evidence nor precendent to base the !@#$%^&*umption (and !@#$%^&*umption it is) that players will prefer old sets to the new.[/quote']

[Delic]

I have explained over and over again why. It feels like I've been repeating myself this whole time..

I'm not supposing anything' date=' I know this for a fact, I know how this zone works, I know a lot about how shipsetts work and what kind of impact the changes have given the gameplay, and I know about the mistakes made in the past.

 

I know what I'm talking about.[/quote']

 

How on earth do you know that for a fact? What evidence have you based this on?

 

A fact is something we base on and support with evidence. The Earth revolves around the Sun. The sky is blue. People die. These are facts. Simply saying 'trust me because I know I'm right' isn't enough without adequate evidence to back it up. I'm not saying you don't know about ship settings, or gameplay, or how the zone works. I'm saying you have no evidence nor precendent to base the !@#$%^&*umption (and !@#$%^&*umption it is) that players will prefer old sets to the new.

 

Oh my God. I have to repeat myself.. again? *shocked*

 

I have never said that the majority of the current players would prefer the old settings.

However' date=' I do believe that players who've never been here before will play whatever it is that we give them, since they don't know anything else, since they're NEW.[/quote']

 

What I know for a fact is that the new settings were crippled so that it would be easier for the ships to kill eachother.

This is what Zeke wanted to do with his changes, I thought you knew?

I thought everyone knew?

Because he said so himself, and if you watch, he succeeded.

If you seriously don't think that the old settings were crippled then you should compare the two next time you're in the zone.

 

And to address minor points:

 

Why do you say that the old settings required more skill than the new ones? One could argue that the new settings require skill' date=' simply in a different way.[/quote']

 

I know this because I've played with both of them and the old settings were harder to use and get better at, they were crippled in the sense that they took away their strengths and just added a totally different element to a ship to try to balance it, in other words they changed the ships so that they wouldn't be as different from eachother.

Which means that the ships have lost their unique abilities and so, they can't fight in as many ways as they could with the old settings, which is less fun, and people want a zone to be fun, don't you agree?

 

I'll explain in detail how the new settings take less skills.

 

New Warbird: Faster bullet rate, more agile (=easier to use)

New Spider: Much faster bullet rate with stronger guns, more agile (=easier to use)

New Levi: Faster top speed, faster rotation speed, more agile (=easier to use).

New Terr: The new terr was changed completely from its older version and is now a totally different ship, a fast-bomber with higher top speed and much stronger bullets but weaker bombs.

This is the one and only ship from the new ship settings that I like, because it's actually a new ship and not a ship that's been crippled.

However, it doesn't go well with the theme and by replacing the old ship with this one, we lost another unique ship.

New Lanc: Much more agile, stronger guns but much weaker bombs, which means that they crippled its main strength which was to bomb. (Still, =easier to use).

New Weasel: Some people have said that the new weasel is even "lamer" than the old one. I don't know, but this is another ship that had nothing to do with its older version.

By adding this new mini-ship that can go through tube, you no longer have to fight to get inside of a base and score.

New Shark: Faster bomb rate, more agile and much wider brick span (=easier to use).

Since it now has much wider brick span, it's easy for someone to avoid battle and simply brick-warp someone away from its position.

That's the lamest skill someone ever gave a ship, ships are supposed to be designed to fight eachother and not to make it possible to win territory by making the enemy disappear.

 

These are all FACTS, no?

 

A good pilot will still be far superior to a new one' date=' and it still takes a fair amount of time to 'master' a ship. Skill is relative, and difficult to quantify. Your definition is moulded by oldsets, and that perspective may no longer apply to our current settings.[/quote']

 

...

 

The new ships, as I proved above, are easier to use, therefor they don't take as much skills to master as the old ones.

There's a reason why a good Trench Wars pilot has better aim than a player from dsb/17th/swr.

There's a reason why dsb/17th/swr players are better in the TW spider than TW players are.

And there's a reason why pro SVS players can come in 17th and own most pro 17th duelers.

 

(which I'm sure they wouldn't after giving it a try and getting better at them because yes' date=' the old settings would higher their level of skills since they're used to the current ships which are easier to use)[/quote']

 

You keep saying that you're sure that newers players will do this, or like that, but again you fail to present any real evidence apart from personal !@#$%^&*umption.

 

The only things I'm !@#$%^&*uming is that players would like to have more freedom in this game and have a gameplay with a scenario based on true things and with ships based on real units, plus be able to develop their skills.

 

The new ships were tweaked so that all ships could kill any other ship.

 

But ships are still different enough to ensure distinct advantages and disadvantages in the various possible matchups.

 

Of course they do' date=' but their weaknesses and their strenghts were flipped around and modified and twisted up, so now we no longer have unique ships, we have ships that are easier to use and similar ships can be found in many other zones.

 

There seems to be a contradiction in your argument. Consider a zone where all the ships are equal: much like a single ship event.

 

Now, consider a zone where one ship is vastly superior to another, whilst being utterly useless against a third ship type.

 

Which one requires more skill?

 

The first, of course: a pilot killing another pilot in exactly the same ship, with no advantages or disadvantages is able to prove his 'skill'. After all. he/she defeated an opponent on equal terms.

 

In the latter case, consider what happens when a pilot destroys an enemy using ship which is vastly superior to his/her opponent's. One would logically assume that the skill involved in this case would be far less than the above example.

 

So how, exactly, can you argue that making each ship more distinct makes the zone more skillful?

 

Again you seem to have misunderstood what I've said.

What took the old ships more skills to use has nothing to do with the fact that they were more different from eachother than our current ships.

They took more skills to use because they were harder to master.

But, the variation that the old ship settings had, gave the gameplay more ways of fighting, it made it more fun.

Each ship had weaknesses as well as strengths. A pilot could take advantage of his opponent's weaknesses depending on the situation and location by using a ship that was suitable for that situation.

For example, would you say that the military of Vietnam was more skilled, or superior than the american military?

I don't think so, but since the american units couldn't adapt to the vietnamese environment, that the VietCong was used to, they weren't successful.

 

I hope that makes you understand what I mean.

 

Further' date=' even if you refute the arguments above, why are 'skills' required for a zone to be successful? I pointed out TW in the above post as an example of a zone which is considered by many to be unthematic and lacking in skill, yet one can hardly say that it's an unsuccessful zone. I'm not applying the same principles to 17th; I'm simply pointing out a case where your argument seems not to apply.[/quote']

 

Skills are required for a player to get better in most, if not all zones.

The levels of skills that a zone offers a player before he ceases to develop his skills because he has reached the "top level" of skills in that zone is a different thing though.

If skills are required for a zone to be successful, I don't know, but I do know that 17th would be more fun for A LOT of players if it took more skills, I know this because I know a lot of players from other zones who've played in 17th and didn't think 17th was fun because it's too easy.

Also, success is relative. By making 17th a zone that requires more skills to be good in, it might mean that we may lose players who want it to keep it on a lower level.

 

I'd rather have a zone that forces newbies to develop their skills, and provide an advanced gameplay for pros

Because if we keep this zone easy, people will eventually get bored.

Look at DSB. It doesn't seem so hard to kill people with the warbird or lanc, but good luck with winning the dings in those ships.

[Tipme]

delic write a book

 

"Subspace Zone

17th Parallel

Why this zone is so -*BAD WORD*-ed up?"

 

By Delic

Edited by Delic

Published by Delic

[talion]

If skills are required for a zone to be successful' date=' I don't know, but I do know that 17th would be more fun for A LOT of players if it took more skills, I know this because I know a lot of players from other zones who've played in 17th and didn't think 17th was fun because it's too easy.[/quote']

 

there aren't that many zones that have as large a skill gap with 17th as you seem to think exist. maybe i am missing something? basically there is trench/eg/mg/t3g, then zones like swr/swz/17th/dsb, then svs zones. until this past christmas i never met a true newbie playing svs more than 5 minutes. this tells me they don't like to play svs. this then tells me that higher skill zones have no correlation to success. certain svs zone staff would be the first to tell you that svs is on a slide into a -*BAD WORD*-hole. because there is no new blood, or very little of it. this subspace olympics idea might fix that if it happens, but that's for another thread mayhaps.

 

beware of what you wish for. the harder you make a zone the more likely they'll go somewhere else where cheap thrills are easier to come by. 17th sets, for my money, are challenging enough for most people i'd say. wb is the svs ship, jav is the dsb ship, the rest are relatively unique combinations of abilities to make an interesting zone. part of being good is proving you are good, you know. not just once a year or every season in some league fewer and fewer people in 17th let alone outside of it care about, but on a reset by reset basis. why, hypothetically, should i accept that you are better than me because you say so and win duels? prove you have the abilities to score lots of points in public, or get a really good average score, or a really good rec that isn't 50-0. duel and leagues (in all zones) are places where the lameness of subspace is extracted. subspace without lameness is something else, something less fun i think. also less frustrating. if you can't deal with it and still demonstrate superiority in pub arenas, you aren't as good as you crack yourself up to be. there's a serious lack of compe!@#$%^&*ion in 17th pub between squads. don't tell me bringing the old sets (whichever ones you are talking about) back would fix that. the only pub squad that would likely stick around through that is smg because alot of their members were here as smg for the old sets as well.

 

 

17th occupies a certain skill "niche," if you will, in subspace. if you want to make it more like svs, where ships are very similar, aren't you going against what you have said about promoting uniqueness in the ships? or am i again missing something? there are 7 unique ship abilities in SVS: high thrust/rotation, high speed, cloaking, l3 bombs, double barrel guns, emps/no bomb delay, bounce bombs, and some random -*BAD WORD*- they make up as they go along. they make the ships unique, and force teamwork in different situations. however, some ships get used in WZ alot that never (until a certain iml match with 4 levis) get used in the 4v4 leagues, and vice versa.

 

you can't have it both ways, really. take the uniqe shipset (which i'd say it still is), or you can make ships more like eachother in order to accentuate their remaining differences more.

 

play trench/eg for an hour, then 17th for an hour, then chaos for an hour - in the public arenas. you will get spawned, negged, bursted, portaled, antied, minerepped, gangbanged and cloak turreted countless times.

 

and even though tw is laughably simple to grasp, you can still play it for hours. well, i can. it's my weakness really. anyways, they have something going there. 17th is the same way if you're willing to put some effort into it. chaos is the same with yet more effort and patience. the thing is, the higher up the "skill ladder" i go, the easier i get ticked off by lameness. why is this? i sure as -*BAD WORD*- don't know. if i knew i'd probably be rich as a practicing psychiatrist.

 

 

 

delic, it is true that higher agility makes ships generally easier to use. however, their agility still makes it such that only the wb, jav and weasel are legitimate fighters. and the weasel doesn't have the energy for it. however, you say faster bomb/bullet rates make ships easier to use. i disagree with this. it takes EXTREMELY good judgement to use ships like the spider weasel and terrier (considering only bullets as the example). faster fire? sure it means trouble - if they have super. weapons only do damage if they hit. hitting still takes aim. firing alot and missing is the #1 newbie way to die. newbies still have to learn energy management. where is the problem with this? slow down the rates on every ship other than the javelin and you have a bunch of ships with svs-like fire rates with a freak super bullet ship. then you have an over powered ship, with no way to compensate but giving other ships more toys: like bursts, portals, repels, bricks....

 

And there's a reason why pro SVS players can come in 17th and own most pro 17th duelers.

 

just saw this nugget of wisdom in your post delic. i'd say that's because 17th jav has this nasty tendency to promote over firing. add in the fact you're giving svs pilots the rotation of a wb, the fire spread of a terrier... well you see how it is. very astute observation.

 

 

well taht was amusing to write. but im finished my ice cream now.

[DaKillaRoach]

Arm@dA would stick around too <_<

 

Most of your players are from the golden age of bliss 17th

[pernille]

When zeke changed the settings i really hated it, i mean he ruined "my" ship.

And your right maka he diddent listen to many players while he created it,or so it seemed,but i will still defend him.Alot of players gave him alot of imput wich he worked from,sure not all wishes could be forfilled i mean there are only 8 ships.

He did the changes in a period where pop was extreemly low over a longer period.

Like it or not it was needed,like vile (i think it was) said,if he diddent made thoes changes you would have no zone to -*BAD WORD*- about today,not 17th atleast.

The changes he made,made newbies come to the zone wich was badly needed,and it dosent require a genius to see that.

So for the zone the changes were good.

 

Another thing,delic you said we lost pop cause nurples uploaded #mummy.

I played back then also,well sure ppl whined but i dont remember anyone leaving cause it wasent up that long really,but i also remember some of the vets you said left cause of this wanted #mummy back cause they actualy loved it,wich leads me to what nbv wote about dire and eo.You hate them while they are here,but love them when they are gone.

 

I still belive most ppl want old settings back cause it somehow reminds them of the newbie days where pub was full of fun players new and exciting and so on,but it isnt only settings and map that makes the game fun it is also the players who play's.

 

Saying we dont listen or care is wrong,if we just do as we want belive me,there would had been more changes.

 

We try to improve things,but we also need imput like rixta wrote,we cant use "this sucks,this is lame" etc for anything cause mostly we dont know what your talking about + if its only a few players like 3-5 then the changes most likely wont happen

 

Like 6-7 month ago i uploaded a very old jav in rumble by request from "vets"

the old jav diddent last 48 hours before players incl vets wanted it changed back cause it did to much damage,so damage was fixed back.

That only tells me,yes maybe some players want old sets back but they also forgot how old sets are they do hurt.

 

Maybe a old set weekend would be possible at a time,but not right now

 

Why are leagues doing so bad?

Well i dont know how it was when 17th started with leagues cause either i diddent play at that time or i was to busy in pub to notice,when i started playing leagues there were many squads,newbie and vet squads and it was fun.now the leagues are shadow of it self i agree on that but i dont think its cause of the setting change.

Some players left some squads dissolved alot of new squads were created.The problem with leagues as i see it aint the lack of squads but lack of players showing up for newbie squads.

 

We do have a lower pop atm but i think it is cause many are busy with exams cause in weekends we still have 50+ sometimes more wich we had on reg weekdays before this exam period started,so i dont think that should be seen as a problem yet.

 

pernille

[SeVeR]

I'd rather have a zone that forces newbies to develop their skills, and provide an advanced gameplay for pros

Because if we keep this zone easy, people will eventually get bored.

Look at DSB. It doesn't seem so hard to kill people with the warbird or lanc, but good luck with winning the dings in those ships.

Delic i agree completely with this and the old settings may do this to an extent. You must agree with me that you would only be here now if it wasn't for the jav. Even when the old settings were around without the jav and rumble we would have all left. We all got bored of pub with the old settings but never with rumble. The jav offers the most 'levels' of skill which is why we never get bored with it; we just keep improving in it. So i agree with you that what keeps people playing zones is being able to improve skills.

 

What makes the jav different from the other ships is that its not a one-special ship, almost all of the other old ships had one characteristic that was unique to them and once you know how to use it you were good in that ship which meant massive leaps in skill. This wasn't the case in all ships i agree, but i'm just explaining why the jav kept us playing here more. You couldn't imagine a spider, weasel or terrier rumble really could you, it'd be easy because everyone would be bursting, repping etc based on what ship they were in.

 

Each ship needs the kind of continuous learning curve that the jav has if people are to stay interested in 17th. Once we have this we can do multiship leagues based around pub. I'm not saying 8 javs, that would be boring and wrong, i'm talking about 7 other ships that have sufficient firepower in their guns and bombs so that they don't need to rely on one special to be useful.

 

Why are leagues doing so bad?

 

The leagues are doing badly because people aren't coming as often to the events. This is because most of our new population don't know what rumble/sbl are and most of our population who do have left because they're fed up with pub. The rumble bot helped with this and the site-section on rumble is really nice.. i just wish all the bits of it would work. That needs to be working properly then the winners each-reset should get their name in the zone news.

 

Really though, please don't attempt another league until pub is sorted and more people are actually playing the event. SBL started with hardly nobody playing it and lots of people not knowing what it was. Any league now would be a major flop. Pub really needs to be sorted though in the next month if we are to take advantage of the summer crowds.

[Sair]

I can't say I ever really kept track of politics around here, but I can say one thing:

 

I always had more fun with the old settings. I'm not saying anything else about it, but I had fun.

 

And about the map: This one we've been using for the last few years now is stellar. Its a -*BAD WORD*-ed good map. It'd be an amazing feat to pull off something nearly as good. Its been tried, and the fact that we still use it speaks volumes.

[DaKillaRoach]

We only use it because we dont have another map to use which fits currently the 'gameplay' of 17th, but saying that, any map we uploaded wouldnt make a difference with the ships.