Dr Brain Posted April 2, 2004 Report Posted April 2, 2004 I was just thinking about democrat hypocrisy. They are all concerned about women's rights, but pine for the days when saddam was in power, and women weren't even allowed to be in public without covering their faces, much less allowed to vote. And how high gas prices are the end of the world, when they want to tax the -*BAD WORD*- out of gas so that people stop driving and "polluting." And how Bush pulled a hat over everyone's eyes in regardes to WMDs, when His Most Exaulted Royalness, Bill Clinton said exactly the same things about Iraq only a few years before. Bush contributed more to AIDS research than any previous president, but people villify him because he didn't contribute enough. I swear, if GWB created a cure for cancer, he would be attacked because he didn't invent it sooner.
Dr Brain Posted April 3, 2004 Author Report Posted April 3, 2004 Ohh, I love this one: John Kerry said he would create 10 million new jobs in his first term in office. If 10 million new jobs were created, we would have more jobs than people in the US, and a negative unemploment rate. Gotta love that math
Dr Brain Posted April 3, 2004 Author Report Posted April 3, 2004 Ok, to be fair, I will talk about republican failures. Campaign finance reform. Abridges free speach. Very bad. Bush should have vetoed it. Senior drug benefits program. Ugh, medicare, need I say more? Another Bush mistake. Illegal imigrant stuff. Very bad. I know why Bush wanted to do it. For national security, but it's still a mistake. All I could think up off the top of my head.
Aileron Posted April 3, 2004 Report Posted April 3, 2004 The Democrats aren't so much hypocrits as they are very desperate people seeking a way to attack a very strong political opponant.
Bargeld Posted April 3, 2004 Report Posted April 3, 2004 The last US census put the population at 280 million...
Dr Brain Posted April 3, 2004 Author Report Posted April 3, 2004 I meant to say more jobs than people able to work. I wasnt counting 6 month old babies. Maybe that's were Kerry's math went sour.
MonteZuma Posted April 4, 2004 Report Posted April 4, 2004 The number of 'hidden' unemployed probably outnumber the people in the official unemployment figures.
Dav Posted April 4, 2004 Report Posted April 4, 2004 thats true, many unemployed dont register for benifit. Also if there are now jobs prople will move fron their current job into them.
Bargeld Posted April 4, 2004 Report Posted April 4, 2004 Unemployment rate = 5%Total Population = 280,000,000 Amount of unemployed = 280,000,000 x .05 (5 percent) = 14,000,000 14 million unemployed....10 million jobs added... Sounds like a good plan to me.
Killing Ape Posted April 4, 2004 Report Posted April 4, 2004 The last US census put the population at 280 million...280 was like 20 years ago n00b... just go to census.gov and you'll see US Population: 292,946,528
Dr Brain Posted April 5, 2004 Author Report Posted April 5, 2004 Not enough to make kerry's math work.
Aileron Posted April 5, 2004 Report Posted April 5, 2004 The point is that it really is a promise Kerry can't make. The economy isn't controlled by the president, it's controlled by the free market. Unless Kerry has some kind of brilliant plan, he cannot create that number of jobs. Really, the economy was not hurt because of Bush, but rather economic factors that couldn't be helped. I do know two things the government can do: They can either make the workday 6 hours long or enforce the 8 hour workday better. American companies hire too few employees for themselves and make them work longer and harder. Suppose you have a company that requires 24 hours of total labor per day to get a certain task done. The traditional approach would be 24 hrs / 8 hr day = 3 employees. However, what companies are doing is hiring 2 people, and getting them to put in 4 hours of overtime. If we enforce the 8 hr day, the company will have to hire 3 people. If we reduce the workday to 6 hrs, companies should hire 4, but would hire 3. Both ways would create a boatload of new positions, especially in the positions which require an education to get. If a candidate says he will create more jobs, but doesn't say something along these lines, I wouldn't believe him.
Dr Brain Posted April 5, 2004 Author Report Posted April 5, 2004 But then the company loses money, and goes broke.
Dav Posted April 5, 2004 Report Posted April 5, 2004 mabye thay are one steap ahead of redundincies, alot of manufacturing is moving to asia so those vacancies could soak up the redudentsies. Besides if the jobs become available slowly they will be proportional to the growth in the working population (which will not happen of cource if america becoms the theoretical type E demographic transition model in the next few years). However as cir-*BAD WORD*-nstances in american industry change adding jobs by kerry will assist in keeping unemployment down. He would be an idion to make that many jobs at once anyway, the admin requirements will be huge and unbareable.
Bargeld Posted April 5, 2004 Report Posted April 5, 2004 They just raised the minimum wage in California from like $6.25 to $8.50... Thats gonna hurt a lot of businesses (30% wage increase.) And now we are suppesed to expect the amount of jobs to go up based on that? Definately not... BUT Government officials do have the ability to "create jobs." Just one example:Gov. Official, Mrs. A, pitches a project to create low income housing in Cityville. She gets her funding from a number of places: donations, business investors, and government funding. So there ends up being $2 million to go into this project... to pay for materials, labor, planning, etc. These are all jobs that weren't there last year, hence "jobs have been created."Just remember, this is just 1 scenario I made up in a few seconds, imagine how often this actually happens. If Kerry budgets things the right way, he could get those numbers published. And actually, a lot of telemarketing and phone tech support is being moved to India and the Middle East.
MonteZuma Posted April 5, 2004 Report Posted April 5, 2004 They just raised the minimum wage in California from like $6.25 to $8.50... Thats gonna hurt a lot of businesses (30% wage increase.) And now we are suppesed to expect the amount of jobs to go up based on that? ...30% of nothing is still nothing, so that increase wont hurt businesses much at all. US$6.25 per hour is absolute exploitation that can't be justified in the US or any other wealthy country.
Dr Brain Posted April 5, 2004 Author Report Posted April 5, 2004 Minimum wage is political BS. Sounds good to uneducated people. All it does is hurt businesses and remove jobs. Bargeld, those jobs were all there before. They didn't go hiring random people off the streets, they went to contracting companies who employ those people full time. It isn't the government's duty to create jobs. It should rather foster an enviorment for businesses to flourish and thrive. Growing businesses create jobs. What SHOULD be done to get jobs even higher is to remove all the regulation that hinders hiring new people. I'm saying that John F(raud) Kerry is a liar. How can he create more jobs than they are people in the work force? By employing 10 year olds? Unless he does that, he will never "get those numbers published." In fact, 5.7% unemployment is a lower rate than the average of the 70's, 80's and 90's. Kerry knows this, and it's why he has avoided the issue. Not to mention that we just had the worst attack on American soil *ever*. How can HE create any jobs? Unless he wants to drasticly increase the size of the post office or something, all he can do is stimulate businesses (like Bush is doing), something a liberal isn't willing to do, as they think capitalism is evil incarnate.
Bacchus Posted April 6, 2004 Report Posted April 6, 2004 heh lol at americans rofl at republicans lmao at Bush
MonteZuma Posted April 6, 2004 Report Posted April 6, 2004 Minimum wage is political BS. Sounds good to uneducated people. All it does is hurt businesses and remove jobs.Yes...it is BS, but who do you think 'hurts' more? Business owners or adults earning $6.25 per hour? Anybody working full-time in anything resembling a normal job deserves more than that. You can't live off that money. Jesus. How can anyone begrudge $8 per hour in the wealthiest nation on Earth????? Aside from issues of morality and ethics, paying people wages that keep them in poverty has a high social cost and an indirect economic cost. Poverty (in particular inequality), social problems and crime are directly related. If I earned $6 per hour, I'd be pissed off at the world. Treat people like 2nd class citizens and they will act like 2nd class citizens. I'd vote for Kerry. Kerry's lies sound much better for America and Americans than Bush's lies.
Dr Brain Posted April 6, 2004 Author Report Posted April 6, 2004 How many people do *you* know that LIVE off minimum wage? Not many, I will wager. Minimum wage isn't something people are meant to live off of. Raise minimum wage, and you don't change anything. Prices of products raise to compensate. You actually hurt people who earn what is now the minimum wage, because THEY now make minimum wage, and when prices increase, they get shafted. Minimum wage is made by people working part time at a fast food joint in a summer job. It's not something to live off of. Anyone working something that resembes a normal job isn't getting PAID that. Minimum wage is economic bull -*BAD WORD*-, and you are just too stupid to see it, I guess. Why stop at $8 an hour? Why not make it $2000 an hour? LIFT them out of poverty! Escalate us to be the "Greatest Country in the World"! We pay everyone $2000 an hour... Lets not even stop there! Lets add in a free convertable car too. I'm sure you can see where it leads. Short term chaos, then a rebalancing around the new minimum. Vote for kerry if you want to propel America to be the "Greatest Country in the World". I thank God every day that you aren't a representation of the average of the country. I do hope you see common sence someday. Same thing applies to outsourcing. Outsourcing is good for America. Doesn't sound that great, but if you stop and think about what happens to the money companies save, you will see. You have to look deeper than what lies on the surface. The world is a dynamic place. Not all forces have reprocussions that are immediatly felt, or immediatly seen.
MonteZuma Posted April 6, 2004 Report Posted April 6, 2004 How many people do *you* know that LIVE off minimum wage? Not many, I will wager. Minimum wage isn't something people are meant to live off of. Raise minimum wage, and you don't change anything. Prices of products raise to compensate. You actually hurt people who earn what is now the minimum wage, because THEY now make minimum wage, and when prices increase, they get shafted. Minimum wage is made by people working part time at a fast food joint in a summer job. It's not something to live off of. Anyone working something that resembes a normal job isn't getting PAID that. Minimum wage is economic bull -*BAD WORD*-, and you are just too stupid to see it, I guess. Why stop at $8 an hour? Why not make it $2000 an hour? LIFT them out of poverty! Escalate us to be the "Greatest Country in the World"! We pay everyone $2000 an hour... Lets not even stop there! Lets add in a free convertable car too. I'm sure you can see where it leads. Short term chaos, then a rebalancing around the new minimum. Vote for kerry if you want to propel America to be the "Greatest Country in the World". I thank God every day that you aren't a representation of the average of the country. I do hope you see common sence someday. Same thing applies to outsourcing. Outsourcing is good for America. Doesn't sound that great, but if you stop and think about what happens to the money companies save, you will see. You have to look deeper than what lies on the surface. The world is a dynamic place. Not all forces have reprocussions that are immediatly felt, or immediatly seen.I don't need you to tell me to look deeper than the surface. I've had direct exposure to a wider demographic spectrum than you will ever understand. I lived in a family that subsisted at or below the poverty line for over a decade. I haven't forgotten what it was like. It sucked. You make smartarsed remarks about paying $2,000 per hour and giving away convertables, but there are families who's net worth is <$2000 who don't even own a friggin car. Say whatever you want about those people and how they got there, but paying $6 per hour is sure as -*BAD WORD*- not gonna get them out. Believe it or not people ARE living off the minimum wage and less - somehow. You don't think ironing shirts is a real job? Try doing it for 8 hours a day. Some people do. In general, low wage earners don't get shafted when the minimum wage increases. We still need people to wash dishes in restaurants, iron our shirts, patrol our carparks and make and serve our fries. That need doesn't change whatever the minimum wage is. These people don't get shafted because every other employer in that industry must pay the same minimum wage. Will you stop buying fries if the price goes up $0.05? Take away the minimum wage and workers are totally at the mercy of supply and demand. People are not commodities that should be traded and bought for the lowest price like bananas. Paying $8 per hour won't make your economy collapse. But it may result in a better workforce and fairer distribution of wealth.
Bargeld Posted April 6, 2004 Report Posted April 6, 2004 Dr. Brain needs a big, fat 'welcome to reality' smack. Seriously, read these:http://research.aarp.org/econ/dd65_workers.pdfhttp://www.ncpa.org/studies/s190/s190.html
Dr Brain Posted April 6, 2004 Author Report Posted April 6, 2004 Didn't read the first one, Bargeld, because acrobat freaked out. And the second one basicly said everything I said in my last post, with far more detail and facts. MonteZuma, read that last link Bargeld gave, "Only 1.2 percent of all minimum wage workers (about 58,600) were adult heads of households with less than $10,000 of income." That's why I doubted you knew anyone who lived on it. I was saying that raising it only hurts the people it tries to help. They get shafted. I also lived in poverty for a long time. Not a decade, but close. > "Paying $8 per hour won't make your economy collapse. But it may result in a better workforce and fairer distribution of wealth." HAHAHA!!! No, you are right, it wont collapse the economy, but it will hurt it. And it wont result in a better work force. In fact, people will get layed off because of the new minimum, prices will go up, and increase the distance between the rich and poor. Socialism isn't the way to go. If you want money, work for it.
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