Yet another Lone Outlaw troll thread

[Lone Outlaw]

Lol if you want to avoid situations like this, try and remember you are not all powerful online just because you have a ban hammer, some people are talented, this guy is probably an amateur but imagine if you can someone serious whose been on computers since 1994. There will always be someone stronger or better than you are, with the resources to make a DDoS attack like this seem like a joke. People can set up an array of thousands of computers from around the world and DDoS your servers, and hide their location through a giant list of proxy's., you wouldn't even be able to pull a hoch and "threaten" to sue their ass. The best solution for this is to treat people fairly, make bots to enforce any zone rules. Try not to ban people for saying something you don't like, that's what ?ignore is for. There is an ignore on these forums also. Hope Priitk is alive enough to reset the servers, or this will indeed be funny for a few weeks.

 

LOL @ stag shots post, another rich guy making threats about how powerful he is and all his connections. Hackers aren't necessarily bad people. There are white hats, grey hats, black hats. You can only make an argument that black hats are bad, but it still depends what they do. So check your prejudices at the door because people who hack are definitely needed, it's checks and balances. As if your federal whatever level can deport people to USA, as if your laws apply in every country. Even if you had proof, no one would spend the money to deport someone to USA unless it was a more serious felony like murder, that person would just have a warrant in USA for their arrest. But I doubt your IT security expert is talented enough to find who did this.

 

Lots of planning and information is required for attacks like this. Not to mention a person who did this level of an attack would either be mobile, using a laptop, or if at a location would not be using internet they paid for.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Lone Outlaw

[Stag Shot]

LOL @ stag shots post, another rich guy making threats about how powerful he is and all his connections. Hackers aren't necessarily bad people. There are white hats, grey hats, black hats. You can only make an argument that black hats are bad, but it still depends what they do. So check your prejudices at the door because people who hack are definitely needed, it's checks and balances. As if your federal whatever level can deport people to USA, as if your laws apply in every country. Even if you had proof, no one would spend the money to deport someone to USA unless it was a more serious felony like murder, that person would just have a warrant in USA for their arrest. But I doubt your IT security expert is talented enough to find who did this.

 

Lots of planning and information is required for attacks like this. Not to mention a person who did this level of an attack would either be mobile, using a laptop, or if at a location would not be using internet they paid for.

 

Thanks for the lesson, I've been around the hacking/RE/security scene for almost two decades..And I have no respect for a DDoS attack; exploit a server vulnerability or develop a trainer if you want to impress (i.e., demonstrate true talent).

 

Obviously nobody is getting extradited over this, but when you attack any community you have to fear a response.

 

Lastly, PB has been idle for months and the shutdown had already been planned.

[Lone Outlaw]

Yeah *lots of information needed for an attack that exploits a server vulnerability. Not really sure what info is needed for DDoS attack. Probably very little. Had to correct myself. Then I agree with you a DDoS attack is a more cheap way of doing things, and not really about anything other than disruption/destruction.

 

I'm not sure how the community can retaliate. The best thing still is to ban cheaters only, and try to be responsible adults now that we are all like 28+ years old. Less chance of pissing the wrong people off that way, the community doesn't need to make enemies. If this was an unprovoked attack, which I agree is more likely, then the above doesn't apply.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Lone Outlaw

[GC6]

Lone Outlaw ; nothing you have said thus far justifies a dos attack on a 20 year old online pew pew game..

(I get that we are likely 'collateral damage' here, but you raise a good point)

I refuse to think that we should suffer egotist, and abusive players simply because they might turn out to be "more powerful at the intertubes than we're able to deal with" ...

The rule is ; Don't be a dick.

Zone ops have every right to ban abusive people, or people that cause disruption via their actions. This just so happens to include cheating but is not expressly limited to it. 

I for one am tired of the 'come lately' or 'part timers' that can't play in a zone for 30 seconds before they start trashing it, or its players that are just playing. Or people that appear to have no other life than being in zone 24/7 and act like everyone should kiss their ass and take a knee for their patronage, and they abuse others through it.

Those aren't whitehats, redhats, or blackhats, they're asshats... and they can leave if they don't like it..

...LIKE AN ADULT... 

Not 'be a child' and have to ruin it for everyone.





 
 

Edited April 9, 2014 by GC6

[Lone Outlaw]

Okay ban someone who says something you don't like. If your in the process of making enemies, or keeping them, then you will just provoke the wrong people. What you have to understand is if i enter your zone and troll one player, its at the word level. When you ban, you raise the stakes, you take it from words to actions, and i would deem it excessive action too. As such this person if they are talented now has every right to leave words behind also and do some actions of their own like take down 20+ servers. You just created a shit storm because you can't handle someone's pixels (text). Also keep in mind while a troll is trolling, nothing stops the whole community from trolling them. If I can handle 50 people hating me and making fun of me, how can you not handle me 1 person trolling you? If your skin is that thin maybe you should get off the internet entirely. The true way to be an adult is to turn your enemies into friends. Polix lately decided to be nicer with me for example, and the same respect is given in return.

 

But overall I have to say you have a right to do what you like in a zone that you own. Except with ignore and gag features bans are not required. Bans are only needed for cheaters, Spec can be used for griefers (aka team killers). If you make a bot that will auto gag people when they re-enter a zone, and knows all the persons aliases and IP address, then you effectively eliminated the need for a ban. You set the gag time to 6000 minutes, and thats it, whenever the person enters the zone they are auto gagged. I will tell you now, this was my idea, i told Entropy to do it, he listened and did it in DSB, AND it's far far far worse than a ban ever would be, and you get the +1 population from the gagged player being in your zone and playing.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Lone Outlaw

[Kilo]

Lone Outlaw: Sorry, but I'm going to have to stop you right at the point you said "every right."That is disturbingly out of touch with reality, and outright incorrect.If you kick someone out of your establishment, that is your right. If you attack someone's establishment, you are by definition not within your rights. You can say all you want about them, but you cannot attack them.

 

You just created a shit storm because you can't handle someone's pixels (text).

So basically.. continuing this physical-world analogy: I just kicked you out of my business. You then hijack a bunch of cars and park them in front of all of my driveways so no one can get in to the business. It doesn't matter why I kicked you out, you're still in the wrong. I'm not the one that created the shitstorm, you are. So long as I am not breaking any laws, I have the right to do whatever I want in my establishment and it is not for anyone else to decide, or to retaliate against my establishment (or me) because they don't like it.You are talking about "abilities," not "rights."That said I don't ban a lot of people. But if I do, they have no justification to attack me or my property or an internet server even if I banned them for a bad reason or no reason at all.

[Wormhole Surfer]

When you ban, you raise the stakes. As such this person now has every right to take down 20+ servers.

 

To summarize your insane ramblings ^

[Nebulous]

Along the lines of "trolling" someone: It's acceptable if the person knows you aren't serious just as being a dick verbally in person might be okay if your friends with the person because they know you're just joking around. Sure there's an ignore function in the game and there isn't in person, but what if the person trolling you is on your team and is telling the team an important piece of information (such as they're at the enemy, attach to them, or attach to defend, etc.)? You wont get it because you ignored them and your team suffers. Or if you troll someone who's new to the game (the kind of people that are very important to it's survival at this point), then they will be discouraged from coming back to it and think the community is just terrible.

And attacking a large number of servers and affecting other servers unrelated to the game is not justified by being wrongly banned. There's a ban appeal process for correcting that. (Or at least, there should be. I've heard the ban appealing and account recovery systems in place are not working quite as they should, but I don't have any experience with either myself.)

[Peeking Duck?]

Okay ban someone who says something you don't like. If your in the process of making enemies, or keeping them, then you will just provoke the wrong people. What you have to understand is if i enter your zone and troll one player, its at the word level. When you ban, you raise the stakes, you take it from words to actions, and i would deem it excessive action too. As such this person if they are talented now has every right to leave words behind also and do some actions of their own like take down 20+ servers. You just created a shit storm because you can't handle someone's pixels (text). Also keep in mind while a troll is trolling, nothing stops the whole community from trolling them. If I can handle 50 people hating me and making fun of me, how can you not handle me 1 person trolling you? If your skin is that thin maybe you should get off the internet entirely. The true way to be an adult is to turn your enemies into friends. Polix lately decided to be nicer with me for example, and the same respect is given in return.

 

But overall I have to say you have a right to do what you like in a zone that you own. Except with ignore and gag features bans are not required. Bans are only needed for cheaters, Spec can be used for griefers (aka team killers). If you make a bot that will auto gag people when they re-enter a zone, and knows all the persons aliases and IP address, then you effectively eliminated the need for a ban. You set the gag time to 6000 minutes, and thats it, whenever the person enters the zone they are auto gagged. I will tell you now, this was my idea, i told Entropy to do it, he listened and did it in DSB, AND it's far far far worse than a ban ever would be, and you get the +1 population from the gagged player being in your zone and playing.

 

 

The lady doth protest too much, methinks...

[Lone Outlaw]

"Lone Outlaw: Sorry, but I'm going to have to stop you right at the point you said "every right." That is disturbingly out of touch with reality, and outright incorrect. If you kick someone out of your establishment, that is your right. If you attack someone's establishment, you are by definition not within your rights. You can say all you want about them, but you cannot attack them."

 

A ban is kicking someone out of your establishment. But a net-ban on here, is equivalent to kicking someone out of the country. It can also be viewed as analogous to murdering someone since my existence on the game is as Lone Outlaw and if I was net-banned from the game my existence is no more. As such banning for words is an extreme overreaction and the fact that so many of you take issue with this (ESPECIALLY when there is a better way to handle the situation) shows why Continuum was likely hacked. The truth of the matter is hackers rarely waste their time taking down games unless they have a reason too. And I am assuming this in general of course because I know some people capable of this and they really wouldn't waste their time unless people on the game were being power tripping ass hats. The only other reason a hacker would waste their time on this is just to see if they could do it, but that would apply more to finding server vulnerabilities or basic lame cheating like flying through walls, packets etc. And again they wouldn't take down a game they actually enjoy, they would select some game filled with people that they again don't like, likely because those people are power tripping ass hats.

 

A zone is designed for fun and generally made in service to a community, so while something can be a private business, it can also accommodate the public and be open to the public. As such there are certain laws where it is illegal to deny service. Saying something you don't like, or that you disagree with, does not count as causing a disruption, especially when in this game people can use the ?ignore function and the problem would be solved. Disruptions of a business, have more to do with actions, and would affect everyone in the business. If you are pissed off about what i say, it doesn't mean everyone else is. If you really wanted to justify bans for speech then you'd have to impliment vote bans like Team Fortress has. Where the whole game decides this person is disrupting the "service of the business". If taken to court and you said I was disrupting your business, but you had no single witness to confirm, they would throw the case out because the denial of service was unjustified and based on arbitrary conditions. IE personal opinion.

 

Funny how you guys are all quick to justify denial of service (ie. bans) and continuum got Denial-Of-Service-Attacked. Seems who ever did this is of like mind like you guys are. A person like me would never DDoS or Ban.

 

The fact that people don't ?ignore means its not much of an issue for them to begin with, they are only making a big deal out of it because they know they can convince some tool of a MOD to ban a player they don't like. The fact that mods don't gag, is because they'd rather ban and feel powerful. What i say has to border on a hate crime for it to be considered a disruption. So sure a line can be drawn on what can be said, but most trolling in continuum rarely comes close to deserving a ban, the way i troll involves no hate or racism or even swear words, and yet I've been banned countless times. Once for 24 years by Hoch, two netbans, various undeserving bans in DSB etc.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Lone Outlaw

[Wormhole Surfer]

Lone Outlaw, you're really living up to your name. You're actually saying (whether you realize it or not) that if one player is banned from all SSCU zones, that player is justified in "banning" every other player from every SSCU zone.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Wormhole Surfer

[Kilo]

Lone Outlaw, that's nice, but unfortunately that's still not a justification (also you are wildly speculating anyway.) I could just as easily speculate that the person doing this was doing it because they wanted to kill SS off and have people find their alternate game instead, or just that the person was frankly insane and was slighted by someone who wasn't even an op. If you are not just, you have no voice in a civilized society, and whatever message you are trying to send will be ignored. That is why physical-world terrorists are futile as well and little more than violence machines.


It's far more accurate to say SSC is its own establishment. It's an exclusive franchise with many different locations with their own flavor (although probably anyone can join, it's up to the existing establishment to allow it.) Level 1 banG ops are the authorized bouncers to this establishment and can ban you from all locations.


Your argument about anything related to the concept of "public" is invalid because "private" means "not public" and your implication that it is illegal to deny service to people that say things you don't like is also false and a red herring. If you don't believe me, why don't you start testing your "rights" in your local stores and see how they treat you.


You may have been banned before but you have the option of just not returning to some zone you think is shitty that bans you for a reason you deem to be unjust. That is your right. But it is their right to determine what is a bannable offense.

Edit: clarified my meaning

Edited April 9, 2014 by Kilo

[Dr Brain]

 

...And I am assuming...

 

I laughed at this (for the uninformed: Lone Outlaw has on multiple occasions criticized other people for "assuming" things). Then I found couldn't continue reading your insanity.

 

If a ban is equivelent to kicking someone out of your establishment, then a netban is equivelent to kicking someone out of your entire franchise.

 

Getting kicked out of every McDonalds or Walmart is not the same thing as murder.

[Cheese]

why do ppl not ignore that idiot?

hasnt he proven himself an idiot weekly for the past 5 years?

[Lone Outlaw]

Yet one of the commands for banning is *kill. At any rate, it depends how you want to make the analogy. If we are talking about online persona's, then you are effectively killing the existence of that persona in a game by banning it from the game. So for something as non harmful as text, a ban is excessive. It could be like me shooting you in the head because you called my mom fat. Banned from existing in what i deem "my" world. (When in reality we all share the world). That is the sum of my analogy. In this case you shoot people in the head, and the world they are banned from is continuum. (Yet we all apart of the same community, how can you say someone is not unless they are actually DDoS'ing the servers or cheating?)

 

Yeah but the difference is i said I'm assuming, while other people assume, think its the truth, and pass it off as fact thinking they have all the facts when they don't. So yeah correct I am speculating, I pretty much said I was.

 

If thats the case the rules of the establishment should probably change, why would you want to be apart of something that is borderline discriminatory, or has the wrong values. I know from personal experience talking to some hackers that they really hate peoples online club houses, where people make their own rules and live in some fictional world.

 

Actually I like DSB, i like the zone, settings, most of the people. I think the staff is shitty and needs to step down so the zone can succeed. It's not smart on their part to ban contributing players, as I've devved for the zone on many an occasion, trained 200 new players for leagues, brought 6 squads to 3 different leagues and so on. I played in DSB since before some of these idiots knew what subspace was. 12 years makes me as much apart of the zone and continuum as anyone else, despite if you think i say stupid things, or if i troll occasionally.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Lone Outlaw

[Wormhole Surfer]

This thread is the first time I've ever heard of him, but if everyone already knows he's a fool, I guess there's very little danger in the "message" he's trying to spread.

[Lone Outlaw]

You can always go to DSB when its up asked to be gagged 6000 minutes and then see what is more annoying, a ban that sends you to another zone, or a gag that lasts until the timer is up, even if you change names, leave the zone, etc. Thats the message I'm trying to spread, stop policing your zones and dev for them, thats how you solve a lot of issues. A simple gag bot or module would eliminate the need for bans in 99.9% of cases. It's called a proportional reaction to whatever someone is doing. You don't take chainsaw to kill a fly. Otherwise you guys are no different than this hacker, going nuts and taking down a whole game because someone called him a name. ie One of Kilos speculations.

 

"Your argument about anything related to the concept of "public" is invalid because "private" means "not public" and your implication that it is illegal to deny service to people that say things you don't like is also false and a red herring. If you don't believe me, why don't you start testing your "rights" in your local stores and see how they treat you."

 

Illegal doesn't always mean it's enforced. But if for example the police were present, and you refuse service and make it extremely obvious why, like because i'm black or white or christian or jew. The police will say hey you need to serve that guy. And if you don't believe me they will tell you what is legal and not. In not so obvious cases you need to actually not be served, leave the store, and come back with a lawyer and take the person to court and make a big deal out of it. Maybe even have video evidence, and in that case you need to be in a country or state where its legal to video tape or record if one person knows about it.

 

As for your ideas of private and public I can just quote this for you.

 

But Aren’t Restaurants Considered Private Property?

Yes, however they are also considered places of public accommodation. In other words, the primary purpose of a restaurant is to sell food to the general public, which necessarily requires susceptibility to equal protection laws. Therefore, a restaurant’s existence as private property does not excuse an unjustified refusal of service. This can be contrasted to a nightclub, which usually caters itself to a specific group of clientele based on age and social status.

 

 

Oh and by the way one of those equal protection laws under most constitutions is the freedom of speech.

 

Freedom of Speech – One fundamental right guaranteed under the First Amendment is the right to freedom of speech and press. Both the federal and state governments are generally prohibited from limiting an individual's right to expression, with only a few limited exceptions. Today, government-sponsored censorship is a controversial topic in constitutional law.

 

Edited April 10, 2014 by Lone Outlaw

[PoLiX]

Awesome if EVERYONE in the game was an american citizen, but they are not. I love when people try to use the constitution on the internet as it typically shows how much they're trying to grapple to prove their point; not even considering that that constitution has no standing on the internet. "But the American constitution says I can say whatever I wish about you Mr. Putin!"

 

Perfect real life example. Buddy of mine is a redskins fan, and always causes a ruckus at Seahawks games when they come to play us here. Gets drunk, gets in fights, gets kicked out. Being it was his third time he is permanently banned from the stadium and all establishments connected to it.

 

Or going with the restaurant one. If you are harassing another customer, they can ask you to leave. If you continue to harass from outside and cause issues, they can kick you off the property or call the police. You continue, they normally call the police. If you continue harassing them and arguing with the police you end up in jail. In jail you no longer have the free will to go wherever you please. Think of your net-ban as jail time. DSB removed you, you kept harassing from a distance. Netop got involved, you began harassing them too. So you in turn were taken to jail/given a net-ban.

 

Also, your ignore comment only works on people who don't keep changing aliases to bypass the ignores. Hmm, Just like you did

 

Finally, lines 5 & 6 of the license you agreed to in order to play continuum:

 

 

5. APPROPRIATE GAME PLAY; RESPONSIBILITY FOR GAME PLAY.  You agree to not take any action or pass any communication, either in or through this product or in or through any other software, that interferes with another player’s ability to enjoy his or her play of the game or which is objectionable or inappropriate.  Your conduct in the game may affect your ability to play on a given server.  Rules of conduct are left to the discretion of each server operator. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the definition of objectionable and/or inappropriate actions includes intentionally or unintentionally violating any applicable local, state, national or international law, regulation or treaty.  You are completely and solely liable for all communications and other activities of every kind and nature conducted by or through your screen name/log-in name.

 

6. LOSS OF PRIVILEGES.  In the event that you engage in conduct prohibited by this LICENCE, or otherwise commit any other breach of this LICENCE, then one or more of the following may occur: you may be issued a warning; your account’s chat or other communication abilities may be turned off; use of your account may be temporarily or permanently blocked; and your use of any other on-line gaming or other similar account that you then or may in the future maintain with the operator of the server or their respective affiliates may be temporarily or permanently blocked.

 

Don't like the actions that you agreed to being taken against you, then you shouldn't have agreed to allow them to be in the first place.

[Lone Outlaw]

I didn't specifically look up the american constitution, I'm not american, I'm canadian, most constitutions recognize fundamental civil liberties. Unless I should get the constitution of china or iran or something that nobody here even agrees with. You live in countries and enjoy rights, and then violate the same rights online because you can, it seems very hypocritical to me.

 

Nope i never change names to evade ignores. You made that up, or you believed whoever accused me of that without actually having evidence to that fact. You believed a lot of shit resol said in one case, and tm_master had to tell you no resol is a liar and I actually just banned him myself from my zone, falc was innocent. That was just one case. Getting banned from a zone also doesnt mean i can't talk on the zone chat.

 

Anyway anyone who knows me, or has ignored me, knows i don't change names to evade ignores. Ignore me and it will likely stay that way until you tick it off.

 

Pfft i started playing in 1999, was that part of the 1999 license? Cause tomorrow you can release a new client and add option 7. Saying Polix is the supreme ruler of continuum and can ban anyone he wants anytime.

 

Except you guys dont even follow your own license, " Your conduct in the game may affect your ability to play on a given server.  Rules of conduct are left to the discretion of each server operator."

Tm_master for example thinks similarly about bans the way i do, and would never ban a player for words said. As such when he heard of my netban, knowing i am no real threat to the game, servers, don't even know how to cheat etc, he decided to ban free me, because under his discretion my conduct is fine for his zone, and he wants me there. When doing such a thing you and mom went apeshit on his ass and likely threatened to remove his powers or tried to pressure him not to ban free me.

 

Yes harassment is pursuing someone, but i dont specifically target anyone when i troll, i just make general remarks usually about how a zone fails or something. Or controversial statements about something else not even related to the zone. When i do insult someone it's not all day for hours, and the next day it could be someone else, i don't discriminate i troll everyone equally. But one thing you need to understand about harassment, is that the person needs to ask you or tell you to stop for it to be harassment. If they don't then how should i know? I may think i'm joking and hes not taking it as seriously as he is.

 

People rarely tell me to stop, they just argue, insult back, get mad, ignore, etc. No one has ever quit subspace because of me, and to say such a thing would be conceited, people quit for tons of other practical reasons. In every game people actually need an enemy or two to keep it interesting. In dsb mods would not tell me to stop, theyd just ban, they didnt tell me to stop because they knew i would and that it would deprive them of banning me.

 

But please dont misunderstand, I agree harassment should be a gag-able offense, i'm not in favor of racism in zones, i can understand hyperspaces enforcement of no swearing also, and i respect their rule on it. But i personally see no issue with saying a bad word from time to time.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Lone Outlaw

[PoLiX]

That license was an agreement between you and the defunct Virgin Interactive Entertainment, and the use of the SubSpace client. The Continuum client license is an agreement between you and the online game network it supports.

 

And if you read the first paragraph, last sentence:

Failure to comply with the terms and conditions listed below can result in the revokation of this LICENCE and loss of the ability to play this game on a given network.

 

The SSC Network has rules and expectations that zones agree to upon connection to the SSC biller. There is also a group of BanG admins for the reason of fairness of decision. At the time of your ban there were 4, and all 4 were in agreement to remove you from the SSC Network per request of DSB, per the network ban policy, and per the license as previously shown.

 

ha·rass·ment  [huh-ras-muhhttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngnt, har-uhhttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngs-muhhttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngnt] 

noun

the act or an instance of harassing, or disturbing, pestering, or troubling repeatedly

 

Network Ban Policy section #3

 

Harassment - Continual harassment of players, zone operators, or server hosts either in-game or in real life. 

 

--------------------------

 

Back to the subject at hand.

 

Hopefully tomorrow PriitK's server should be back online. Will keep everyone updated with what we know as we know it on that subject.

[Lady Vader]

pfft

[a tool]

ITT: giant walls of text about getting banned on more than one occasion.

[Corey]

More like

ITT: lone outlaw tries to justify another one of his backwards thinking ways, while he still looks like an idiot doing so.

[a tool]

proskills

[HanSolo#1]

SO -  This has gone on long enough!!!!!!

People just want to play the darn game - if you break the agreement - your out -Damm hackers or whatever the feck is going on keeping all the servers off-line.

Don't be a douche and you can play - pretty simple - If you are messing up, your ISP needs to be contacted, and you should get whacked with loss of service - cease and desist - SOMETHING please - we just want to play the game here people!!!

I know that there has been some issues with the people that made the billing server - I don't know much - really nothing - no more than there was some issue of the original guy who made it when it was once Virgin (?) game ( Subspace) -
Personally, I would not mind seeing it being maintained or sold or whatever, so people can continue to play it - 
More that one billing server?/??   What options are there?
Please figure it out - I mostly read (skimmed) the 4 pages on this thread, so if I am missing something I am sorry - but keep up the good work to the people that ARE working on bringing it back!

Again - I a looking forward to playing again!