Hello and bounty

[ReCoil!]

Hi I know i havent got a fancy picture or anything yet...but well thats not whats important....and if u dont know me well i used to go by th name Kwisatz, and Zakalwe!...and now ReCoil! all of which were mostly terrier, but i can learn any ship in a bit... but thats not important...i just wanted to show i wasnt newb or anything.

 

I have a few suggestions that i would do in order of priority.... (PLEASE READ THEM)

 

1st - bounty WB - 33, Jav - 33, Spider - 40, Lev - 35, Terrier* - 35 , Weasel - 35** Lancaster - 34, Shark - 35***

 

* I noticed in kents thread there was a comment about 3 terriers reping..well any 3 ships defending would be highly annoying...eg. 3 lancs, or 3 sharks...so it was just unfortunate for u...and terrier is a support craft...3 supporting each other are deadly...

 

** weasel is fast it can easily collect 35

 

***shark i agree with kent...40 2 high....like 40 for terrier 2 high....and shark is fast as well...

 

Im completely for having higher bounty attaching...but you just got your values a bit wrong...

 

2ndly - bounce....i know this probably wont happen...but i think that the average points scored in 17th just be found....i dont know what it is but for example 25000 (i know this is completely wrong) and then bounce should cost 12500 therefore people can only get it twice on average...and it will make people ball more if they want bounce...cos they will need to get more points...

 

3rdly - spider....i expect this even less that the other 2....but maybe stealth should have a heavier cost...so spiders have to time when they charge into bases....cos if they dont it would run out and people could see them...not 2 fast a decharge...but u know so its not free exactly...and cloak should be free.... i dont relly have a prob with spider...its another ship...i just think this would introduce a bit more skill...people have been using it alot recently as good player killers...becos they can suicide...

 

I know this is alot of stuff if uve read it.....give urself a pat on the back and i thank u alot....i hope to play abit more..and maybe post some other things abit shorter

[Delic]

I have the solution to everyone's problemsss!

 

Change to old pubbbbbbb

[GhettoSmurf]

yay for old pub!!

 

but since that won't be happening soon (or will it? plzzzz?), let's deal with these topics you mention about the current pub...about the reps, i'm just personally glad that most terrs haven't discovered anti-warp yet

 

now the weasel? just be glad it doesn't have the 100 attach bounty from before...actually, i liked that...it generally kept weasels outa base cuz they couldn't turn for -*BAD WORD*-

 

and stealth for spider might not deplete energy, but it slows recharge like -*BAD WORD*-, and is good as is. it already requires skill if you wanna survive...but there don't seem to be many spiders around anymore that actually care about anything other than mashing burst as much as they can

[Cid Firefist]

If the bounty to attach is gonna stay high then make weasels attachable!

[nez]

wonder what would happen apple. the weasel is a tad smaller then the other ships.

 

my vote is an attach bty of 35 for all. that means everyone will need the same amount of greens, and they'd help everyone else. keep things simple.

 

i think the bounce price is fine, although i wish there was more for sale in general.

 

...and about playing soccer? umm the points are too low. you always end up with more points if your on the team with 12 flags. solution? either the bases have flags as well as goals, or the soccer points are worth more.

 

i have no idea why the game ends up being one thats all about soccer, when all the points lie in the north base.

 

delic, i like the current settings! shhh you <_< .

[Delic]

Of course you like 'em, but the old settings took more skills and were created by the creators of 17th.

 

The ones you're playing with were created by a fool who wasn't thinking about the consequences of the changes he made, and when he was attacked for it, his excuses were "uh I'm only doing what I was told to do".

 

Pfft, no love.

 

But just so you know, what you're playing now definitely isn't 17th.

[nez]

Thats true Delic.

But I've been playing these settings since I've played 17th. It may not be the old 17th, but its the 17th I like.

 

I think it requires skills. When I duel some players in 17th, I will win 100% of the time. If I vs the handful of decent players that there is, I will lose 100% of the time. Hence skill. Not SVS level of skill, but still skill.

 

Go look at Chaos too. That is what true skill is. See many new players in Chaos? Not likely. The learning curve is too high, and the population too low. I think current 17th has a reasonable balance for vets and noobs.

 

***

 

I've tried playing with the older settings - little about them appeals to me at all. Many of the ships are annoying to handle, and too unbalanced. I think the addition of the little weasel is also very unique to the current 17th.

 

Many people act as if everything will be okay if the older settings were restored. I severely doubt it. You would upset both the newbies and people that have grown accostomed to the new settings.

 

***

 

Why not try to restore the old settings one Friday, or after a score-reset for a day or something? No harm done then.

[Delic]

Hey, I'd rather have a shipset that could be called a 17th shipset that is original and requires skills, and gives the gameplay something that can only be found in 17th.

 

That's what we used to have, not anymore.

 

Many of the ships we had, you couldn't find in any other zone, not anymore.

 

Too unbalanced? Heh, whatever you say. Each ship was better than another depending on the location, that's a good thing because then it forces the team to have teamplay.

 

Now you don't need it as much.

 

But believe whatever you want to believe hehhh

[Tipme]

when u "vets" say old map and old sets

is that the one where it looks like vietnam with lanc no bullets and fire super uber blue bombs ?go original

or ?go oldmap same kinda map....but the 1 hit kill weasel

[ReCoil!]

I dont mean offense to jav players but would it be fair to say that it is mostly them who want the old settings back? and would it also be fair to say that the javelin was unmatchable by any other ship unless someone either used spider/weasel on them? i dont think that is fair....and i think that the fact that 17th now is more challenging to javs is all well and good....

 

but lets be honest.... if u changed the settings people would get angry...i would be if u touched my terrier....well ....i dont think i could adapt.....their is nothing wrong with the ship sets...they only need tickering with....

 

if u want to make the ships more interesting work with what we have now....

 

why not give the spider red bullets....thats like the old days...but keep the double/quadruple fire.....terrier is just as strange as it used to be....jav is fine, weasels is fine....thats interesting....lancaster...-*BAD WORD*- even that seems ok.... maybe warbird could do with a change...i dont know though that would upset alot of people.... i dont think u can change warbird....its like jav its not gonna change...and shark....i think shark should have even faster bomb fire....that would be class.... maybe levi should be changed though....but it would have to be looked at....its not that unbalanced how it is right now....

 

im not suggesting any of these happen....i just dont agree with u delic....i like the ships...and i only experienced the old settings for a very short amount of time.... and well....they might have worked...but i dont know...all i do know is the settings we have now...are challenging for all ships concerned...and that all ships can beat all other ships..but have to develop skills against them.... terrier for instant....is great against weasel...but rubbish against wb....u just have to adapt....

 

anyhow thats enough lol

[DaKillaRoach]

Weee I love ship set threads.

 

They always turn into flaming wars and big disucussions so i'll add to it I suppose. If you have not actually played the old settings for a decent amount of time you CAN NOT give a opinion on whether you think the current settings had skill or not and whether they are better than the old ones.

 

Why cant you? Because you havnt evaluated either side. The thing that kept me and alot of people in 17th was the old settings, we stayed in 17th though when Zeke changed them because he promised 2 weeks trial. That seemed fair to me. But then he left them and didnt turn them back even though he got so much negative feedback it was ridiculas. He could take the fact that everyone REALLY hated the new settings.

 

Now the thing is I have compared the two settings, I still remember old settings when they were around and they had ALOT more skill and were ALOT more fun. There is no skill now a days in 17th. Once you have mastered a ship to a certain degree (which doesnt take long) then you can pick off people with subtle ease.

 

Older settings didnt allow that and it created the fun about it. It took a long while to understand how your ship played properly, which was the downfall for many ships bar the javelin players because it was obvious what their strengths and weaknesses were!

 

The old settings were yes Rice when Lancaster had no bullets when multifire was turned off, and the Levi fired very fast bombs, etc. And I truely believe we should turn back to it but it seems it wont happen and we are stuck with the settings alot of veteran players are fed up of because its BORING.

 

I believe we should turn back to older settings but remove the 1 hit kill weasel for the 2v2 weasel to combat against the javelin and that would balance things in that extreme.

 

(Also change that -*BAD WORD*-ing small weasel to normal size. With its current status its one of the best effective killers in the right hands yet quite hard to kill -.-')

[ntfx]

Zeke didn't do everything wrong IMHO, yes I did find the settings better before he changed them but after he changed them he really got the population up for a while. Many newbies quit playing 17th after a week because it was quite hard compared to other zones, zeke lied about the trial thing, it's true, that's wrong. But he also managed the get many newbies playing pub since we had many 20 vs 20 games. I just think the ships in the sub arena's shouldn't have changed, except for events like ?go league and ?go sbl.

[nez]

Hmm I did actually play with the old settings enough to get the hang of a few ships. Namely terrier, shark and warbird. I believe I did rather well in a flagbattle match. I bet I bet I could rec almost as well with the old settings anyway.

 

I like the 1x1 weasel a lot. When you are talking 'unique', 17th to my knowledge is the only populated zone that makes use of the ability to have the smaller ship.

 

(Also change that -*BAD WORD*-ing small weasel to normal size. With its current status its one of the best effective killers in the right hands yet quite hard to kill -.-')

 

Sounds like the weasel is a bit of a challenge for you then DKR. Maybe there is skill after all in the new settings. I'm sure people were just remarking how the new weasel sucked in another thread....That is one ship that hardly anyone can use, but when they can its pwnage.

 

***

 

When a lot of vets talk about the setting difference, they make it out like EVERYONE will love the old settings. I wouldn't. I'm not the only one. It comes down to a difference in opinion and taste, doesnt it.

[Delic]

I dont mean offense to jav players but would it be fair to say that it is mostly them who want the old settings back? and would it also be fair to say that the javelin was unmatchable by any other ship unless someone either used spider/weasel on them? i dont think that is fair....and i think that the fact that 17th now is more challenging to javs is all well and good....

 

Ehh... I used to play pub more than most' date=' and I rarely used the Jav.

 

I did sometimes when I felt like going on a suicide mission and invade a base solo.

 

But no, you're wrong, not only the weasel and spider could kill the Jav in old pub.

 

The Lanc could easily kill it as long as it didn't let it get close.

 

The Levi could easily kill it with its fast bullets.

 

The Terr could easily kill it with mines or bombs or even its bullets.

 

The Shark well.. I guess this was the ship that had most trouble killing a Jav, atleast for me. But the Shark is meant as back-up unit..

 

It all depends on the situation and location.

You had to know how to use the ships, you couldn't just go rushing a Jav, you had to focus on its weaknesses, just like every other ship.

 

but lets be honest.... if u changed the settings people would get angry...i would be if u touched my terrier....well ....i dont think i could adapt.....their is nothing wrong with the ship sets...they only need tickering with....

 

if u want to make the ships more interesting work with what we have now....

 

Sigh. No, what we have now is a handicapped shipset that requires much less skills than the original one.

And we DO want it to require skills, correct?

If we keep this newbie pub then newbies will only get as good as it lets them become, and that's not much.

 

why not give the spider red bullets....thats like the old days...but keep the double/quadruple fire.....terrier is just as strange as it used to be....jav is fine' date=' weasels is fine....thats interesting....lancaster...-*BAD WORD*- even that seems ok.... maybe warbird could do with a change...i dont know though that would upset alot of people.... i dont think u can change warbird....its like jav its not gonna change...and shark....i think shark should have even faster bomb fire....that would be class.... maybe levi should be changed though....but it would have to be looked at....its not that unbalanced how it is right now....[/quote']

 

Shark with even faster bombs? Ehhh.....

 

I don't care what they do to the current pub shipset because it's still based on the weak platform that is known as the "Zeke Shipset".

 

It is true that people would get upset if we changed to the original shipset, because they require more skills, and I guess people don't want things to require something from you to function better.

 

But I guarantee you, more people were upset when they changed to this shipset than people ever will be if we change back.

 

And yes, it's all history now but we still have a problem, and that's that we don't have a shipset that makes sense.

Changing it in the first place was a fatal mistake, but hey, that's what happens when you let fools who don't know what they're doing be in charge.

 

im not suggesting any of these happen....i just dont agree with u delic....i like the ships...and i only experienced the old settings for a very short amount of time.... and well....they might have worked...but i dont know...all i do know is the settings we have now...are challenging for all ships concerned...and that all ships can beat all other ships..but have to develop skills against them.... terrier for instant....is great against weasel...but rubbish against wb....u just have to adapt....

 

No' date=' you're wrong. I don't have to adapt to anything, because this shipset is 50 times easier than the one I learned to play in.

 

All ships in the original shipset had a specific mission and were better than other ships depending on situation and location, they made sense.

 

The current shipset was made by an amateur who did not think about everything you need to think about when creating a pub.

 

But I don't expect anyone to understand..

 

We stayed in 17th though when Zeke changed them because he promised 2 weeks trial. That seemed fair to me. But then he left them and didnt turn them back even though he got so much negative feedback it was ridiculas. He could take the fact that everyone REALLY hated the new settings.

 

So true, Zeke used to HATE players röfl. Instead of listening to them, he'd ingnore all of us who had something to say :\

It seems he really did everything he did just to have the honor :C

 

ntfx: trust me, those new people would've been here no matter which shipset we had.

[Delic]

I like the 1x1 weasel a lot. When you are talking 'unique'' date=' 17th to my knowledge is the only populated zone that makes use of the ability to have the smaller ship.[/quote']

 

What Hitler did was unique too, that doesn't mean that it's something good.

 

With the midget weasel, you don't even have to attack a base to score, how is that good?

But you're absolutely right, the mini weasel requires a lot of skills, but you have to look at the shipset as a whole, look at the bigger picture.

 

That's the problem with most people, they just see what they want to see and ignore everything else.

 

When a lot of vets talk about the setting difference' date=' they make it out like EVERYONE will love the old settings. I wouldn't. I'm not the only one. It comes down to a difference in opinion and taste, doesnt it.[/quote']

 

As I said, people would probably hate it, but in the end it would be for the best.

[ReCoil!]

im not gonna quote anyone cos im not sure how 2 it...just have to learn with time...but im not an idiot....and i do recognize that this zone is really newbish atm....therefore why not a compromise....why not mix the 2 shipsets...

 

i propose that WB should go back to what it used to be....with a tad more acceleration...not that really slow thing...just a little more....

 

jav keep same as pub jav is now....seems fine to me...(i meant be wrong dont bother ripping me apart over it)

 

spider - send it back to what it used to be....

 

lev - back to old lev....

 

terrier - might as well keep the new one... all u javs call it a -*BAD WORD*- ship anyhow...

 

weasel- i honestly dont see the problem with the new weasel..its weak in base.... and unique and is a good jav killer...so leave it alone.... ok it might not require the one hit kill skillz of before...but just cos u javs cant kill it doesnt mean its hard... i nail weasels everytime..so they do die...just as much as everyone else...

 

lancaster - return to old days....there isnt much difference anyhow...no one really can be arsed to use the guns lol

 

shark - i cant remember much about this....i dont think it has changed much apart from losing a thor am i right??

 

why not give it a 2 week trial and then have a vote at the end of it.... say keep/back to usual/ or try a different modification....

 

i really am open minded....and i think everyone is willing to have a change...and just see how things go.... the only problem is all the newbs wouldnt like it.... so they would all vote against it....but if we just listen to vets....then that might work...maybe have a vote on this forum....give people the website on 17th..those who care will visit...

[Delic]

"All you javs"

 

Eh.. come on :\

 

And I believe Vile's idea was to mix the two.

 

I really doubt it would work..

 

The current Terrier is a totally different ship than the old one, it's a great ship though but you can't compare the two.

So you'd lose one type of ship.

 

We'll just have to wait and see, but I doubt anything will happen anytime soon because everyone who can change things are either too afraid to do it, or just don't know what to do, OR have their own little ideas on how to change 17th how only they want it to be.. so in the end I really don't see anyone doing anything for the better.

[DaKillaRoach]

Yes I have a thing against the new weasel nez. I find it the most difficult ship to kill out of the lot because of the turning factor of the Lancaster. That and almost every laggy person around seems to use the weasel -.-'

 

I think we should use the weasel in 2v2. It is by far better than the current one, and creates a second fighter ship which is different from the javelin. Provides the javelin with a different form of a fighter ship and leaves it open with weaknesses, especially against bombers.

 

If we are going to keep the same boring, mucked around settings then at least change the weasel to something which agrees to the other ships at least. (Like what the older settings did)

[Cid Firefist]

Why not do one of those 'two week trials' like Zeke did or whatever with the old settings to see what kind of feedback you get?

[ReCoil!]

for gods sake...who changes the ships round here....why dont we get talking to them.....and try some stuff out...and get some feedback...instead of mucking about on here....

 

perny got here map tryouts every friday....why dont we have ship tryouts now on friday...or something.....at least try instead of sitting on ur arses saying ooo the new settings are crap, the old settings are crap...why dont we wipe the slate clean....keep whats good....change whats bad.....

 

all we need to do is have some feedback on each shipset each friday....on this forum or something....we could even mix and match until we get it right....but can we stop bickering and trying to rip each others arguements apart...cos that gets u nowhere ....right i enjoyed that who does the ships?btw

[GhettoSmurf]

i just wanna note that i more or less hate the jav, but i still want old settings. they were deffinately more challenging and fun. as delic said, it took teamwork and a variety of ships to succeed in bases. now i find i can fly into the base solo as a spider and pretty much clear it out, unless there are more than two lancs, which is incredibly rare anyways. but with old pub, a single lanc could easily take out a spider. but then the spider would call in, say, a wb or jav (yes, teams acctually supported base attacks regularly then!). then suddenly the lanc is in trouble and gets a lev and terr for support, so in pops a shark for the spiders team. suddenly there is a full fledged base battle going on with amaizing intensity! and if someone then proceeded to buy bounce, the mayhem increases even more for hours of basing fun! the only way to truely lock down a base was with multiple bouncing lancs. but i just remember such occurences leading to bigger attacks from the other team, once again leading to huge base battles and tons of fun and excitement. but now, one or two people take out all enemies in the base with ease and the fight is over. one person from the other team may return if the ball is going that derection, but for the most part the base battles are pretty boring.

No challenge=No fun <_<

 

also, though the ships are all powerful in some areas and weak in others, the distribution of power amoung ships seemed amaizingly well done. it was't an omnipotent jav and a bunch of other lame ships trying to survive. i actually think the jav seems more over-powered now than before.

 

now this whole thing of "scaring off newbies," i'm completely fine with that. cuz it might bring back some of the "vets." and then the idea of a challenge might be reintroduced.

[nez]

I dont think we need two weeks, just a friday.

 

And DKR, If anything stays it should be the weasel. Everyone whines about originality. Thats original. Your getting owned by it, so theres the skill. I think its about time you adjusted to the new settings. A lanc losing to a weasel indoors is a laughable offense.

 

I think the weasel is one of the LEAST used ships in the zone (along with lanc maybe?). And probably the most under-mastered one, perhaps along with a good terrier or lanc. And Lanc is probably the best ship for hunting weasels too. So I have no idea what your on. At least Delic seems to know what hes talking about.

[DaKillaRoach]

DKR, If anything stays it should be the weasel. Everyone whines about originality. Thats original. Your getting owned by it, so theres the skill. I think its about time you adjusted to the new settings. A lanc losing to a weasel indoors is a laughable offense.

 

I think the weasel is one of the LEAST used ships in the zone (along with lanc maybe?). And probably the most under-mastered one, perhaps along with a good terrier or lanc.  And Lanc is probably the best ship for hunting weasels too.  So I have no idea what your on. At least Delic seems to know what hes talking about.

Did I ever state I have fought weasels in doors and lost? no. Dont assume please. I mainply play in the centre because the balling in 17th is boring now in my opinion.

 

The lancatser should go back to its original design. It seems now too fighter like. Restore that and it wouldnt make much change to the zone, but would revert it back to the anti-x role it had.

 

Lanc best ship to hunt weasels? Well considering there are only two x radar ships that kinda limits you down to the best ship to hunt weasels idiot.

 

The warbird is a more efficent weasel killer because of the greater turning ability it posses and the more powerful bombs. Also with the spread bullets of the lancaster the smaller weasel can dodge them alot easier. Sure you can hit it with bombs but it can run away then come back within seconds with full energy while the warbird can drop a bomb upon it and have the turning speed to throw another bomb or thor at it.

 

If you changed to the old lancaster you would lose the decoys (If i remember correctly) and lose your bullets bar the single stream if multi fire is on (but its not worth it) but you gain harder bombs which can threaten all cloaked ships even more than they can now AND finally turn the Lancaster into the proper X hunting ship it used to be as well as still being an effective line bomber.

[nez]

DKR, so let me get this straight. You are whining about the settings and skill level of 17th, when your actually not playing the game as intended, with a ship that is meant to be used in bases, out in the open, and your having trouble killing the weasel - a ship whose worst matchup is the warbird or lanc?

[Guest ninja ant]

DKR, so let me get this straight. You are whining about the settings and skill level of 17th, when your actually not playing the game as intended, with a ship that is meant to be used in bases, out in the open, and your having trouble killing the weasel -  a ship whose worst matchup is the warbird or lanc?

It's not about the weasel, or wb, or any particular ship at all. It's the settings of ALL the ships that is bothering people. Go bicker somewhere else.

 

Yes I'm a vet, I got into and fell in love with 17th back when you had killer lev bombs, 1 hit bomb kill weas, super thors, and nasty javs. This new shipset makes every ship too normal; having each ship with more extreme specializations made it more interesting.

 

I don't want lanc to have bullets; that's not what it's for. Now the shark and the spider are basically the same ship, except 1 has bursts and the other has bricks. Sure the lev has good bombs, but not that much better.

 

It's all a question of levels of difference. In the old shipset, there were more signifigant differences between each of the ships, and I personally prefer it that way.

 

All imho, heh.