Releasing old names

[Lone Outlaw]

System isn't that good as i never got my name back, even though the name wasn't used for 10 years. Because back then i used dial up, lived elsewhere,etc, and always put in fake e-mails/names, because you don't really need to know my name or e-mail. But the way i see it, if no one used the name 10 years, it should be freed.

 

The lame billing system is part of the reason there are 5 clients in development to replace continuum. It's a joke.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Resol]

The biller has nothing to do with client development.

[Dav]

A reasonable request will not be denied. A 10 year old name thats unused is not just up for grabs.

 

If it was yours then you need to provide something to link it back to you before it can be released. Reason is to prevent name traders getting hold of names they want rather then own. Sad that it happens and makes it harder for everyone, but it IS a real issue.

[Lone Outlaw]

Well this goes back to the name trading issue, which we discussed before somewhere here on these forums. About taking names, being stealing. Equivalent to saying if i download a song, as opposed to buying an album, it's theft, because it takes away from the profits some guy could have made. But either way if i had no money to buy the song, then i wouldn't have been a customer in the first place. So my downloading doesn't affect the market. Similar taking a name, doesn't really affect the market for names. For example the name i have issue with, is Tycho Celchu. No one around today wants that name, let alone can think of it. It's a starwars name based on a starwars character. It was in fact mine back in 1999-2000, and somehow after that reset in 1999 i lost the name, and never got it back. i either lost the password, or someone got the name, because you guys reset it despite it having 1000+ hours.

 

A reasonable request will not be denied. A 10 year old name thats unused is not just up for grabs.

Well if we are on the topic of reasonable, just read what you wrote, and consider how unreasonable it is. i mean 10 years is a loooooong time. It's a damn decade, a decade where someone didn't log in once. And you are keeping that name hostage? Don't tell me you have no way to tell if the person used the name at least once in ten years? Because if you don't, then already the biller needs to be replaced. And im tired of saying ?find, getting back a message more than 10 days ago. It should say last seen on October, 15, 2002. I'm sure the guy who has Tycho Celchu doesn't even login on any other names either, for at least 10 years. I'm sure i just lost the password, but as i was using 56k modem back then, and all my e-mails expired i can't prove it was mine.

 

If its not used for 10 years, then it definitely should be open for grabs. Why is there even a debate on that? Why are you holding names hostage for 10 years. How in any way is that right? And what exactly is wrong with name collectors? If they don't have the motivation to log into their names every month, they eventually lose the name. As it wont have enough usage first off. So whats the problem? I am a name collector myself, 99% of my names no one wants. And i can barely collect maybe 20 names, because the more names i take on the more responsibilities i have in taking care of them and adding usage. If i collect 50 names, and don't log in for 10 years, they should all be reset. Name collectors is just an excuse, it's not really a problem.

 

Now someone can collect common names like Avenger, and Fire, etc. But all these common names were taken from day one. There is no proof Tycho Celchu belongs to anyone currently in game, or even a real person, as i am sure the e-mail its registered under is Bogus and the name. If the person doesn't exist in the subspace community anymore, whats the problem? They might come back? After 10 years? If people knew they couldn't hold on to their names forever. How many would actually quit? Who would still be playing? or at least logging in to refresh their name. You guys gave the all clear, that people can have a name and quit for 10 years and still have the name.

 

Resol i never said the biller is part of client development. i said the biller is part of the reason 5 new clients are being developed. i hope you can tell the difference between the two, and i won't need to explain further. Also keep in mind, there is a difference between part, and only. Now if the biller was the only reason people were fed up with continuum, people would forget making a new client, and just make a new biller.

 

A new client will have a new biller system, a better one. People aren't just re-developing the game, they are re-doing everything, the whole idea behind subspace is flawed on many levels, from security, to development, to zone management, to the biller system. Half the fights in subspace are a result of lack of development. Lack of dev is a result of so many failures, but to sum it up Pheonix client will have map elements, a particle editor, and scripting, which means anyone can code for a zone. C++ is no longer required, making the reliance on people who are AFK, never play, and post on forums obsolete. Hopefully all the clients take these issues further, to eliminate the need for bans, by adding more in game options to deal with people, and by improving security and having a way better biller system.

 

Other problems with the biller, is if no one likes name collectors, the biller does nothing to prevent it currently. The client and biller could be designed to give each player 2 accounts maximum, based on their ip address/mac id, other information, and require valid e-mail confirmation from the player each account requiring separate e-mail. From there each account can have like 5 names maximum.

 

As well as ?find ?message being almost useless currently. Also i don't know of any game that keeps names for 10 years of not logging in. Not even steam does that. E-mails like yahoo delete themselves if you don't login for 3-6 months. (or used too) DDO still has my account after 1 year, but i didn't try 10 years yet.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Dav]

If you can find some smart way to make the biller find names that are unused, will never be used and have never held any significance then go code it. OF course we have no access to biller updates of that nature so it cant be done.

 

I understand your analogies, problems though are as below:

 

1) the biller is limited in what we can get from it, this makes matching information difficault

 

2) 10 years is a long time to retain details, I am sure of i had a name from 10 years ago I wanted back I would struggle to prove it was mine as well

 

3) If the rules are changed to release names at the discression of the op then were is the line drawn? does one release a name like "ksdjsjkhdsg"? How about a name like "SubSpace"? What about "SVS"? Each of those names have differing leves of significance but a clear line of which should be allowed to be claimed and which should not is fuzzy. At least with a rule where one must prove ownership as best they can is clear. Its not perfect, but IMO its the best solution given the way the system works.

[Cheese]

the biller already has that system in place

 

a name like asldiguasdfa will be reset very quickly, but names that have "significance" mean nothing to a computer, because it is a subjective human trait

 

names like cheese or polix will not be reset for a few centuries, as they have more than a few confidential factors that asdlkuasdf does not

[Lone Outlaw]

A system where ownership must be proven is still good.

 

However it's probably better if the whole system became automated in the first place, so you or someone else is not directly involved. This way even though someone with access could look at my personal information, it's like they will have no cause or reason too, so my privacy is protected more. Such are the recovery systems of most e-mails and games. If you forget your password, there are steps to recover it. The current in-game recovery system is inadequate. Simply because it relies on e-mailing a person whose e-mail was never even validated as real upon name creation, and it involves Biller ops directly after that.

 

i think it would be better if we cut out the middle man here altogether. And many new clients being developed, seek to cut out the middle man in some cases, providing more transparency and autonomy.

 

Now as for a cut off line, personally i think if you don't use it, you should lose it. This 'idea' is already present in the current biller system. Being a collector of names, many of my names have reset on their own. Either from lack of usage, or not logging into use them in time, or for not being in squads, which i was told counts towards holding a name indefinitely. And i basically agree with this. But all of this is fairly targeted at new names.

 

So i would probably make the cut off at 2 years. If the person doesn't log into a name for 2 years. The name resets. Any name doesn't matter what it is. If people want a name they should use it. Otherwise you just create a situation were a guy can quit 10 years and be secure knowing his name will be there for a decade. Or you create the opposite situation where a guy who lost his name can't get it back even after 10 years.

 

You might say well the guy who lost his name after 2 years because he quit, will come back, and want his name back. Um no, i won't expect my name back, because i'd have known that the name would reset if i didn't login for 2 years. i don't have anyone to blame but myself. Now people want their names back not because the name was stolen, but they lost the login information, and they know the name will be there for 20 years. If you attack both reasons by making it impossible to lose login info, and making it clear names have to be used to be kept, then all problems are erased. Guys like me won't exist, and won't have a justified reason to askfor names back. All someone can complain about is why do i need to login once every two years to keep my name. Which sounds like a retarded complaint when you read it. This idiot can't even login once every two years?

 

If a squad doesn't have 5 people in it, it will be put into a squad reset queue, if after 6 months there still isn't 5 people in it. The squad name resets. Of course all 5 people could be you under other names you have.

 

Currently in Ultima Online, we have houses, if we don't login once a month to refresh our homes, our home will decay, and fall to the ground, and we lose everything inside.

 

1. Prove ownership

2. Require that e-mails be validated

3. Make sure the biller e-mails you the name you created, as part of the validation process

4. Automate the name recovery further by requiring lost password questions.

5. If you don't use it you lose it.

 

Even basing the don't use it you lose it, entirely on usage is good too. So someone with 5000 usage is guaranteed for 5 years (no logins) to have their name. Someone with 10,000 usage, their name is pretty much secure for life. 10,000 means 10 years no logins before name resets. And everyone should be able to login once every 10 years. So that timer resets upon every login. This way what usage does Tycho Celchu have? 500 usage probably? it would have been reset 5 months, to a year ago, and i'd have been able to get it back. This usage system provides more protection for old time community players, while still promoting a better biller system.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Cheese]

all the system needs is security questions

 

nothing more, really

 

because the biller is currently a house built upon a sand dune

 

email accounts change, system specs change

therefore ssc account identifications should change as well, and they dont

[Dav]

You are right, the billers reset system could be modified. Thing is there is no access to do it at this time.

 

As far as the active names unused for 2 years goes there is an issue with that.

 

Say somone wanted to take the name SVS, this would cause confusuion as that is a well known name in the community, even after the years its been since he went. Every name will have a history and that will be implied on anyone taking a name used previously. Some names will be significant but in many cases significance is very subjective. Because of this IMHO any name with significant usage should not be given over after 2 years of inactivity.

 

The other issue is the time of the ops to to researech into a name and go through resetting it. It would take an army to deal with the requests if it was opened up. There is also a lot of scope to gather incomplete information and make an error.

[spidernl]

If there is anything I hate, it's security questions. The ones I might remember, everyone else I know also knows. Which is when you decide to make the answer to "what's your favorite animal?" '&:3&84&+%-' instead of 'dog'. At that point the security system might as well be "write down this code to recover your password later".

 

[/rant]

[Samapico]

^

true dat

[Cheese]

maybe you should just answer dog then

its your own damn fault

[spidernl]

Except everyone else knows that answer too.

[Cheese]

so spidernl, whats your mothers maiden name?

[clerisy]

i just giggled. good one ^