Nerfing coils and kinetic is a mistake

[cxc]

Nerfing coils and kinetic is a mistake.

 

Please restore coils and kinetic to what they were before.

 

 

The burst is the most powerful weapon in the game, if anything is to be nerfed it should be the burst, not the protection from it.

 

Lancing is one of the most boring jobs in the game, as evidenced as no one wants to do it. I have found a way to lanc and it be fun. That is being burst proof and fighting any ship that comes within my guns range. I try to eat their bursts to protect my team, and I rather enjoy watching them blow up and benefit alot by eating their green.

 

Now that I am no longer burst proof i will no longer be lancing. Its just not fun to hide from every ship that leak or sneaks up from behind.

 

I may even quit all totally if the bursts get to out of hand (like they are early in resets before people can afford protection)

[Jareth]

The nerf was long overdue. They were both way overtuned.

 

I think they are in a good position now. If you sit there and let someone burst on top of you in a corner then you are probably going to die.

 

They completely dumbed the game down for lancs before the nerf. You barely had to be playing to be successful.

[P Nut]

Quitting when things aren't easy? That's why it was nerfed. Lancs could just sit there and tank all bursts and coffins. Stay on your feet. Don't sit still. You can stay a live if you stay aware, even with a stock Lanc..

[Unix]

cxc, you've said it yourself, you were essentially immune to bursts. How is that not op and needing a nerf?

[cxc]

the 3 biggest burst abusers ring in.

 

I just dont think an anti death in the right spot where you live for all of 2 seconds means you should get to kill the enemy lanc.

[Cheese]

they all are burst abusers, and when you told them bursts were ridiculously overpowered in this zone to the point that theyre a joke and retards will suicide for items, theyd just say "well u should have bought coils hurr hurr"

 

and then they nerfed coils, lol

 

 

 

cxc, you've said it yourself, you were essentially immune to bursts. How is that not op and needing a nerf?

 

because you have guns and bombs, idiot

[spidernl]

Damage dealt with burst if all bullets hit (unlikely scenario, people, please remember) against unarmored lanc: 4160

 

Damage dealt with burst if all bullets hit against lanc with Radiating Coils and Kinetic Barrier: 1560

 

Conclusion: Bursts are still easier to protect yourself from than any other damage type in the game (other than (Inactive) Shrapnel, which Radiating Coils also happens to be really good against).

[P Nut]

the 3 biggest burst abusers ring in.

they all are burst abusers, and when you told them bursts were ridiculously overpowered in this zone to the point that theyre a joke and retards will suicide for items, theyd just say "well u should have bought coils hurr hurr"

 

We're also the best Lancs. So why would someone whose only experience as a Lanc is in an overpowered build and someone that has never anchored or rushed, who also doesn't even play the zone anymore, have more weight on the matter? We are very good at several aspects of the game.

 

Bursts are essential. We're not abusers because rushing is only but one of many roles to be filled during a flag game. Essentially, there are two classes to be assumed: rushers and campers. They are both very important and so is maintaining a balance between them. Without this dynamic, the game and the strategies behind it would be simple and boring.

 

and then they nerfed coils, lol

Let's stop calling this a nerf when it's really a debuff. And that buff was fairly recent. People have Lanced very fine before this buff. You can defend yourself from rushers if you just keep moving. You should not be able to just sit there and not have to worry about it.

Edited October 13, 2012 by P Nut

[Cheese]

discredit & minimize

 

pnut taking the classy way out amirite

[omnomnom]

I think any nerf to bursts should be shifted to radiating coils while kinetic barrier keeps its original burst reduction rate. That way, people would have other less effective but better means of adding up burst reduction, radiating coils itself wouldn't be as powerful, but when combined they'll still be the same. Edited October 13, 2012 by omnomnom

[Samapico]

Rad coils is still a signature item with the only purpose of protecting against bursts... Let's not nerf it too much

[P Nut]

discredit & minimize

 

pnut taking the classy way out amirite

You cast first. Defending and reflecting.

[spittnacid]

Lancing is boring, that's why i never do it, that and getting yelled at for dying, ef that noise. My issues with lancing is slooooooow rotation, bullets go like 2 inches out. I say make them more functional so they are not a hassle to play, keep them strong but somehow only allow 1 lanc per freq and allow a voting system to prevent a bad lancer from ruining the freq.

[cxc]

a sucideing wb can release 3 bursts before it dies, after ad release 3 more. if total dam for 1 burst is 4160, that wb just released 25,000 worth of damage into the area. So only need 15% of the bullets to land and lanc dies.

 

With old setup burst bullets did 74 damage, they did hurt. Now with coils + kinetic burst bullets do 120 dam, basically same as L1 bullets. Guessing that reduces the 25k dam by 4 for about 6k of damage. Well enough to kill anything.

[spidernl]

Too bad that analysis doesn't apply to the actual game.

 

It's funny how people think they know just how good or bad an item is a day after a buff or nerf, when it took 6 months for people to find out the Kinetic + Coils setup was really, really good.

 

So what should we be doing to ensure optimal balance? Wait, and let the metagame adapt.

[Unix]

Max damage from one full burst is 4160 and with coils and kinetic it's 1560.

 

Realistically a best case scenario, 50% will hit at best, assuming this is in a corner. If you are stupid enough to sit in a corner, and let the rusher burst you 3x in a row, you deserve to die. Signature protection items are meant to make you resistant to whatever they're meant to protect, not virtually immune.

 

A typical situation in a base is as follows:

Rusher A is attempting to rush, takes damage from the incoming weaponry from the opposing team. This in turn forces Rusher A to either use reps and or bursts to minimize damage as best as possible.

 

Lanc A is sitting back not getting hit by anything and not forced to use specials at all.

 

Rusher A gets to Lanc A, Rusher A thought is severely weakened, Lanc A easily kills Rusher A.

 

Radiating Coils may have drawbacks, the minimal bullet and bomb protection, but realistically a lanc doesnt need that great of a protection from those two. I have lanc'd in thor storms with metaphasic and have survived relatively easily. This is due to the fact that the lanc size is a natural protection from the majority of bombs and a minor increase does nothing to greatly hinder this.

 

Lvl1 bomb splash doesnt do much if anything, and most rushers will have salvo which is a lvl1 bomb.

 

A rusher that finally reaches the lanc will have minimal energy to shoot at you and the bursts it did save, they may not even be able to use all of them.

[Cheese]

i love how when someone suggests a bomb with 5 shrap you start droning on about potential damage, but when someone directly points it out with bursts you conveniently look the other direction

[cxc]

I have been playing with this setup this reset, all of last reset, and the end of the reset before that after got some good advice from cfx on how to lanc. But you will not see me in it any more, most i will give you is an evoker, I may die alot but at least i will have fun while i am alive. Better dieing having fun in evoker than being bored in lanc.

 

I have not seen any fg's with lancs since the nerf, unix, pnut where are you? we need the expert lancs here and starting fg's.

 

I am looking foward to bursting you...

[spittnacid]

Just change the sell price for nerfed items so ppl can just get their money back and stop bitching. Btw thanks for the improved glow cover, helps me stay alive alittle longer XD

[noldec]

mezon + aphasic lanc > all other lancs

[Unix]

i love how when someone suggests a bomb with 5 shrap you start droning on about potential damage, but when someone directly points it out with bursts you conveniently look the other direction

The difference is that it's much easier to achieve a much higher damage with inactshrap than it is to achieve with bursts. It's not unheard of where 75% or more of the inactshrap will hit someone, much of this is dependent on the speed of the ship, speed of the bomb and angle.

 

Bursts are dependent on the location of the player to the wall and relatively easy to predict.

 

I have been playing with this setup this reset, all of last reset, and the end of the reset before that after got some good advice from cfx on how to lanc. But you will not see me in it any more, most i will give you is an evoker, I may die alot but at least i will have fun while i am alive. Better dieing having fun in evoker than being bored in lanc.

 

I have not seen any fg's with lancs since the nerf, unix, pnut where are you? we need the expert lancs here and starting fg's.

 

I am looking foward to bursting you...

The only time you should be bored is if your team is overpowered and no one is able to come at you. If you a bored in lanc and dying, you're obviously doing it wrong. The key for lancing without being virtually immune to bursts is positioning. You dont want to be in a corner, you do not want to be in a narrow area, and you want to stay just out of enemy gun line reach, but as close as you can to front so that you can deploy attachers quickly.

 

If you feel you should be virtually immune to bursts and be able to sit in a coffin for a few secs without dying, then your idea of "balance" of off. The point of signature protection isnt meant to make you immune, it's meant to make you much more resistant than the second option. Which radiating still does incredibly well.

[Lone Outlaw]

Just limit the range of burst, and the problem with rushers who burst is pretty much nullified. Burst is retarded in any base zone or base system. Has nothing to do with skill or aim. The same way anchoring and flying backwards is retarded, and being protected by the 5 repels of your 5 or more attaching team mates. Not to mention in most zones the anchor gets 1-3 repels themselves. Either way this thread is two retards arguing to each other about who is more of a retard.

 

Not to mention a zone like EG, only has 2 ships that are useful in basing, and those happen to be the ships with the most wall bounce on bombs. (Thus qualifying EG as a shitty base zone). If you choose any other ship, its because you want to start with a handicap and show you have some semblance of skill. <-- slightly off topic

 

In a good zone, burst would be equal for all ships. Thus making it something a player uses just before they die. SHIT im about to die, let me let off a burst as my last act. Thus you explode, your limited range burst remains, and hopefully some idiot repels it in the process, giving it more range, and deflecting it off a wall and back onto his ship. That's how burst was meant to be played anyway. Not pieces of shit endlessly burst rushing like robotic mindless morons, because that certain ship has a larger range burst, and can deploy 50 of them before dying.

 

Of course this is my opinion, note i never mentioned HS, but a general reflection on bursting and basing. So take no offense.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Unix]

Not sure about EG, but in HS bursts are all the same for each ship, the only small varying difference might be the angel simply because of the size of the ship, but even then I dont believe it is. The speed/distance/etc are virtually equal for all ships. Edited October 14, 2012 by Unix

[Rivel]

radiating coils + kinetic was too stronk... to the point where you could sit in coffin for 3 seconds without dying, needed nerf plz OP

[Cheese]

Not pieces of shit endlessly burst rushing like robotic mindless morons, because that certain ship has a larger range burst, and can deploy 50 of them before dying.

 

holy shit this is the first intelligent thing you have said since you joined the forums