had enough with these topics about telling spidernl how to make the zone better

[Arry]

if you really want to contribute.....

 

http://www.subspace..../page__hl__asss

 

And cheese, don't bother saying anything. You're problem is not you don't know coding, your problem is u asss.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Arry

[spittnacid]

i agree and disagree.... user input is most important especially from the dedicated players however I don't think many go about making suggestions the proper way. Saying you suck, fix it, is very counter productive, I don't see how Spider even deals with the knuckleheads that bitch and moan.If you got something to suggest than be more humble about it and if you can code or do anything to contribute than offer. Just don't sit back and complain, do something about it! Ppl take him for granted I think and don't realize how much work has gone into making the zone. Im not brown nosing Im just telling it how I see it.

[Samapico]

When responsible of a zone, it's impossible to please everyone. People complain about something... you change it, people complain that you changed it.

There's also the old farts who keep talking about how everything was better before, yet even if you put back older settings or features, you still get complaints.

 

There's just no way to win, really... It gets to a point where you just have to ignore most feedback and just... do your thing.

[spidernl]

I agree if only because I could use some extra coders that could work on their own thing (or work together with me on one thing). However, I know it's fairly unrealistic. People log in to play the game, not because they're talented coders looking for a place to voluntarily spend their free time working on.

 

As for the - 'scuse me - morons who can't help but criticize everything I do.. They're probably the reason people say I'm 'bitter'. You just start reacting negatively to every suggestion or piece(?) of criticism - even if well thought through, honestly - after a while of developing for HS.

[Lone Outlaw]

Well this is just my view.

 

Spidernl is not very objective. He is not really making a game the community wants, so much as a game he wants. And being the only active coder that's his prerogative.

 

But basically there have been many people who posted in a nice, constructive and humble manner, and their ideas were turned down by Spidernl. (i've witnessed this over the past year or two, with the few odd exceptions)

 

How many of Hyperspace features, weapons, armor, options etc, are actually composed of other peoples ideas? other than brains or spidernl. 10%? 50%? Simply answering this question can prove me wrong, or prove me right.

 

Of course spidernl's legitimate argument will be, some people are idiots, and don't have the whole picture of HS like i do. Dumb ideas won't be accepted etc. But fair is fair, if everyone is an idiot, don't get all on your high horse, if they call you an idiot back or think your ideas are dumb also.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[spidernl]

People can present their ideas politely, but that doesn't make them ideas I'm willing to spend my time on or that fit in MY PICTURE of what HS should be.

 

Also, show me some of these ideas, please. And I'll give you exactly my arguments of why I didn't 'accept' them. If the ideas really were that good, my argument would likely be "Sorry, I don't think that'd be as much fun as , and I have to choose where to spend my time."

 

Edit: Also, some irony for you: every time I implement something that people admit is (a) fun/good idea/improvement, someone from the community always goes "Yeah, I was talking about that to you, SpiderNL, x months ago." to take credit for the idea. So maybe I might've turned them down then, but their idea still got in. Or they're just trying to get credit for my or other people's ideas, of course..

 

Edit 2: A large amount of the time people come up with things that'd be amazingly fun or whatever, but are simply impossible. That's probably the most common reason for ideas being turned down. People don't know the limitations of the game as well as devs, pretty much. Since I do (or at least mostly do, I still run into fun little workarounds every once in a while), the ideas I do come up with are generally possible(!), which also makes them more likely to be implemented. Amazing, innit?

Edited October 8, 2012 by spidernl

[Cheese]

i love how he managed to get you're both correct and wrong in the same sentence

[Arry]

Sorry for singling you all out...esp cheese.... this discussion I think is more profitable than I could have hoped for....

 

While I never did get around to ASSS I'm hoping to have a few surprises for the zone in the coming months..... getting others to pitch in wherever they found a nitch would be great.

 

I might suggest cheese be promoted to Staff Troll when you ?listmod. Because his trolling is usually right on target, just very inconsiderate

 

That way his trolling could be somewat sanctioned by the staff..... IDK.... I COME UP WITH CRAZY IDEAS.... U GUYS MAKE TAKE IT AND RUN WITH IT AND MAKE IT NOT SO CRAZY.... KKKK?????

[spittnacid]

Flame me for saying this but being the only one coding it is his right to flat out say NO... PISS OFF if he wants to. Being a novice coder, I view it the same as my graphic art, I make it for my own enjoyment and maybe others may like it. I may take suggestions but ultimately I have final say in what I feel like doing. Now if you want to pay me or if I was working with others on something, than that changes the game and I'd be alot more receptive cos a. I like getting paper and b. I like working in a team. I think before you start flaming him, understand what he has to do to try(though impossible) to make everyone happy. He can't just pull code out of his ass and say here! Now if you understand (not assume) what goes into coding and what it is to be on your own with the weight of a zone on your shoulders than maybe you have a right to call him out... but I don't think anyone can do that or else we would have more coders... unless those coders are just lazy and don't want to help, in which case you definetly don't have any room to bitch. ^ Rant off.

[Cheese]

the problem is that youre too dumb to see that the only coder is telling other coders to piss off, then does nothing at all for 4 years

[spittnacid]

the problem is that youre too dumb to see that the only coder is telling other coders to piss off, then does nothing at all for 4 years

 

He has to have some quality control of what goes into the server. It sounds like you're bitter because you couldn't cut the mustard.

 

Also, who are you to rate my intelligence? Maybe you should get to know someone before going aggro on them because you don't agree with their opinion. You should step away from the rectangular frame in front of you that you call your life and go out and enjoy some fresh air. Maybe then you wouldn't rage so much.

[Arry]

word.

[BZAP]

There are coders. Just no incentive to dev for a dying game.

 

It's hardly fair to blame NL for pushing his own itemset. Any experienced player in his position would do the same. But I DO think there need to be others in an equal position, with their own unique vision of HS. Arnk, who designed the last itemset, had a strict motto of "NO redundancy". He'd probably be horrified by all the added gimmicks and complications since then. When we had Ceiu, he'd push for SvS-like settings.

 

Whatever the case, feedback is key.

 

 

 

Also, show me some of these ideas, please. And I'll give you exactly my arguments of why I didn't 'accept' them. If the ideas really were that good, my argument would likely be "Sorry, I don't think that'd be as much fun as , and I have to choose where to spend my time."

 

Here's an event that I suggested multiple times over the past few years: http://www.subspace....world-vs-world/

You agreed that it wouldn't be much work, yet rejected it because "events kill population". An utterly irrelevant reason, for I was promoting more variety, not more events.

 

Let's not forget the plans for the 2m flag match announced shortly before the reset (http://www.subspace....93-2m-squad-fg/). You dashed quite a few hopes by pushing reset, knowing full well that players were excited for a match.

 

You also failed to get the basic hint - from just about everyone - that 2x prizes were a good thing (a massive walkout is stronger than words, don't you think?). Nor have you explained your reasons, besides the cop-out that "HS wasn't designed for it". We lost good players and placed new ones at a relative disadvantage. But it wasn't the rewards that hurt; it was the drop in zone activity.

 

 

 

People can present their ideas politely, but that doesn't make them ideas I'm willing to spend my time on or that fit in MY PICTURE of what HS should be.

You just start reacting negatively to every suggestion or piece(?) of criticism - even if well thought through, honestly - after a while of developing for HS.

 

Read the above carefully. Then read what Lone Outlaw wrote:

 

He is not really making a game the community wants, so much as a game he wants.

 

See the problem? You can disagree with the community, but remember that the community can also disagree with you. A good dev values feedback, but I'll say it straight: most of us feel that feedback is lost on you.

Edited October 9, 2012 by BZAP

[Arry]

I think I could probably come up with a workaround for spider for almost any good idea posted here that he turns down after thinking about it for a few minutes..... most of the reasons he turns things down have workarounds..... some easy, some more complex.... but I'll let him come to me with any idea he wants a workaround to implement.... I'm not gonna post fifty million workarounds to all the fifty million ideas that u guys come up with and then spider shoots down.... me and spider have a good relationship and if he wants to bring an idea to me and get a workaround to fit it into the zone, I'll leave that to him. Also, I'd like to say, as far as players with good ideas.... Unix typically has ones that are a notch above most of other players I've noticed.... psythe also..... and if I think of any other players who's ideas are typically of a higher caliber, I'll let you know....

[spittnacid]

Im new to the zone (Not Subspace!) so I don't know anyone really but my interactions thus far with Spider have been pleasant if not suprising (from reading all the hate) but I guess that's why you take ppl's opinions into account but not form YOUR opinion based on them unless your experiences are similar. He's shut down my ideas before but we've also came up with workarounds on other things. Maybe ppl just don't try to communicate properly. If you have an idea that your passionate about, not just willy nilly, and you get shot down, than come up with a logical reasoning and see about a compromise. I don't think he just shoots down ideas cos he doesn't want to implement them. I have a feeling someone's going to come back and say that they've tried to reason and got nowhere, well I can't really comment unless I were privy to the details, however I do see tons of suggestions with no explainations or retort other than complaining that he doesn't listen.

[Lone Outlaw]

Edit 2: A large amount of the time people come up with things that'd be amazingly fun or whatever, but are simply impossible. That's probably the most common reason for ideas being turned down. People don't know the limitations of the game as well as devs, pretty much. Since I do (or at least mostly do, I still run into fun little workarounds every once in a while), the ideas I do come up with are generally possible(!), which also makes them more likely to be implemented. Amazing, innit?

 

Spidernl i was flying around the Phoenix client the other day, and it is basically 95% done and almost in Beta. In another year when the client is complete, do you think HS will port over? Because i believe with the new client, there will be a lot less limitations. As well it still has the feel of subspace, and will probably retain the look. Apparently with the map editor for Phoenix you'll be able to do more stuff that would usually require a bot or module in continuum to do. As well i am not a programmer, and not sure if i understood this correctly, but from what i understood all that c++ knowledge won't be needed, as you will do most stuff with scripting.

 

So basically Phoenix client solves a few problems.

 

It makes devving way easier. Anyone can dev. This eliminates the need for people to complain, argue, or blame other coders for not coding. Because instead of that they can just script themselves. Or most of their ideas will now be easily made within the map editor itself. And scripting is easier to learn but most of all just faster to learn. (Hopefully Richard can make it real time scripting) So i can just change a value, run the script, and learn instantly what that value does without having to read a book on scripting.

 

Next because it has so many new features, it eliminates all complaining about the old client, or not getting ideas done, and gets everyone motivated.

 

Last it will have tons of new features were bans pretty much become obsolete unless you cheat.

 

 

the problem is that youre too dumb to see that the only coder is telling other coders to piss off, then does nothing at all for 4 years

 

ROFL, what you just wrote. Is the exact definition of Entropy in DSB. There is no way spidernl qualifies for this definition yet, not while Entropy is still around.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[spidernl]

Don't recall ever telling any coder coming to me offering help to piss off. Not even you, Cheese.

 

Not using your 'open source super excellent' fake player framework isn't the same thing as rejecting your help. It's your own work, and I don't want/need it.

[Unix]

I've personally given up on suggesting things, it's rather pointless and in the end no matter how good or reasonable the idea, we all know that in the end spidernl will just do whatever he wants. Whether or not it's good or bad for the zone.

[Arry]

See spider^^^ you've alienated a player and former mod who probably has gaming ideas on par or better than yourself...... and perhaps because all the other players come up with dumb ideas, you've grown a little callous to listening to the players you aught to be listening to....... I urge you to spend more time trying to find workarounds to anything unix suggests over all the other players, and if you have a technical reason why it won't work, I'm sure either myself, or myself and JoWie, can come up with workarounds in 15 minutes.....

 

Also, consider everything UNIX has contributed to the zone...... between climbing the ladder and being filthy rich.... to coming up with unique casino bot ideas.... to hosting events as a mod......

 

And every time I would suggest an idea on how to milk the HS system, unix was always like "I already knew that.... been doing that for xxxx long time"

[spidernl]

I'm sorry, but Unix's ideas I have always rejected using arguments that to myself held greater value than his/hers. That's how opinions work. I disagree with Unix's view on the zone, and how it should cater to the top players and let them rip apart newbies in private frequencies. Same deal with the 'make a subarena to split up our already thin-spread population because that will make newbies want to get better' twisted logic.

 

My opinion is that this zone should cater to everyone. The whole 'dead weight' story in flaggames I disagree with. Yes, it can be annoying, but if the evener were better it would have very little effect. The evener, however, isn't better. You don't fix that issue by letting "pros" reign supreme (or giving them their own private playground so the most active players will be in arenas other than pub - in case you've ever paid attention to what happens when an event draws all players from pub : it causes new players who enter pub to go 'oh, nobody is here' and leave again; doesn't sound like a good way to stimulate population growth/stability to me) and letting newbies bite the dust.

 

In other words, I respectfully disagree with Unix's views of how the zone should be.

 

I also have no idea which things suggested by Unix would require workarounds at all. 'far as I know they were mostly "let pros band together in privs because public freqs are full of dead weight" and "let pros have private flaggames in a subarena because they're too elite to work together with 'dead weight'.". Both are very feasible ideas, but also ideas that conflict heavily with my own.

 

Not that I'm against private frequencies, mind you, but I don't think letting them reign supreme in flaggames is the solution. If I'll ever let privs flag, their size will be heavily dependent on the public flagging frequencies'. For example, if freqs 90 and 91 both had 9 players, privs would be capped at - at most - four.

 

A 'second pub' for a select few would only happen if we had enough population to have good (~7v7 and up) flaggames in two pubs at once*. We only rarely have that much population, and odds are that when we do, that's because a large portion of the players playing at that time enjoy even larger flaggames, and wouldn't be there for just 6v6.

 

*) 'least, the ideal is that flaggames of that size are good. If not, bases or items need changing.

Edited October 10, 2012 by spidernl

[Unix]

I've personally given up on suggesting things, it's rather pointless and in the end no matter how good or reasonable the idea, we all know that in the end spidernl will just do whatever he wants. Whether or not it's good or bad for the zone.

[Arry]

Honestly it doesn't matter, I have a workaround to all this taught me by Snrrrub..... I'm not gonna say it cause you'll all flame me, but if your ideas are good enough, they will eventually make it to the zone one way or another, even if I have to dig through all of HS Forum history to find it....

 

 

Signature for this post:

"Just like a chick in the casino take your bank before I pay you out..... promises.... promises..... check this hand cause I'm marvelous" - Lady Gaga (though I prefer the Avatar Girls youtube of the song, rather than her video)

Edited October 10, 2012 by Arry

[spidernl]

I've personally given up on suggesting things, it's rather pointless and in the end no matter how good or reasonable the idea, we all know that in the end spidernl will just do whatever he wants. Whether or not it's good or bad for the zone.

 

I do indeed do whatever I want, but one of my wants is to see Hyperspace stay alive, well-populated and most importantly, fun, for as long as I possibly can. Since I'm only one person, that often involves taking feedback and suggestions from others, as I can only come up with so many things.

Edited October 10, 2012 by spidernl

[Jareth]

See spider^^^ you've alienated a player and former mod who probably has gaming ideas on par or better than yourself...... and perhaps because all the other players come up with dumb ideas, you've grown a little callous to listening to the players you aught to be listening to....... I urge you to spend more time trying to find workarounds to anything unix suggests over all the other players, and if you have a technical reason why it won't work, I'm sure either myself, or myself and JoWie, can come up with workarounds in 15 minutes.....

 

Also, consider everything UNIX has contributed to the zone...... between climbing the ladder and being filthy rich.... to coming up with unique casino bot ideas.... to hosting events as a mod......

 

And every time I would suggest an idea on how to milk the HS system, unix was always like "I already knew that.... been doing that for xxxx long time"

That's doing exactly the same thing Spider is doing in the opposite direction. Disregard who is suggesting the idea and just think about how it will affect the zone. Ego needs to stay out of development.

[Arry]

To be honest, I've had enough pm's with UNIX to realize that he/she has little ego, and just enjoys finding all the limits of the game. If spidernl isn't willing to work with that type of player and their ideas..... it may be seemingly opposite in direction, but it's actually the same direction..... much like Dr Horrible & Malcolm Reynolds are both Heros, while Captain Hammer is a total tool...... I bet Nathan Fillion and Neil Patrick Harris have a great relationship off the screen..... despite one of them batting for "the other team"

 

You on the other hand Monkey..... don't do pms much..... so the jury is out.....

Edited October 10, 2012 by Arry