New Phoenix client! - Lets play.

[Lone Outlaw]

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6536/coolgamechat.png

 

 

This is exactly what i was talking about earlier. With Bar system. Left side F1 THROUGH F4, right side can have, additional windows, when you minimize them, they tab up in the right side. Positives with this, is that F1, F2, F3, F4 Listed, so knew players will know what to press. Second positives, windows not all over the place or in the way. Third positive, chat system has its own tabs at bottom, and chat system is fully integrated into game (NO background at all!) Which is way better than having a background trust me! =p

 

p.S i just did this in 5 minutes to get my point across, and Bottom right could be the mini map. AND if you minimize mini map guess where it gets tabbed? Top Right Bar.

 

Note: Distinction between general chat, and zone, general chat = ALL OF SUBSPACE! every zone!

 

Second Note: Top left and right bar can be transparent, or minimized also so they just HANG out of side of screen like follows.

 

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9380/minimize.png

 

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4144/expandh.png

Edited October 18, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Vidiot_X]

All window backgrounds? Can you make it so we can also just specifically hide the Chat window background?

Generally you will be able to set standard window options for say a chat window to have no window background. Other windows like private messaging windows will have the same option. Windows like system settings, system info and other system windows will have there own option for window settings. I will probably have a settings window for the settings for all windows. In addition server side BOTs can use windows and they will be able to (through scripting) set window options.

 

HUD objects will "all" be based in a window. It's helpful to think of the windows as containers for these HUD objects. So, if I want to add a HUD element like an energy bar I would draw the graphic image for that energy bar to the window. In this case there will be no window background but the energy bar will be moveable by simply clicking on it or a clicking on a move tab. Other HUD objects can be setup with buttons (iconic) and other window devices.

 

Probably a good idea to mention that I will basically be using buttons, list boxes, text boxes and a input device like text field boxes for window gadgets/devices (all custom and non-OS native). I may add menus at sometime later.

 

Will there be a tab system for windows not in use? If i have many windows open, can they be tabbed somewhere and not shown, unless i select them?

Generally I think that most times a user would just close a window when finished with it, but yes I do need something. A tab style window manager might work fine.

 

i think F3 or F4 should be settings window..

F3 sounds great.

 

Any ideas on if you will have a prezone lobby?

There are two ways to look at this. One is as you suggest put everyone in a pregame (pre- zone) lobby. To me the best place for this in the launching application. In Continuum this is were all the servers are listed. The other option here is to make zones the spot to work out from. This way you start in a zone and open a system, chat window and select whatever lobby/channel you would like for system wide chat. So I could have two border-less windows on the bottom of the screen showing zone chat and system wide chat.

 

All good stuff to think about as the latter option keeps traffic zone oriented which zone operators would like I'm sure.

 

Edit - Just saw your other post.

 

 

- Rich -

[Lone Outlaw]

Hmm well it all sounds similar to what im suggesting, or pretty much all customizable, but i gotta check it out when it's done to see it in action, and then hopefully its has utility/functionality with ascetics, and efficiency, and customizable etc.

 

i really don't see why a player should decide where their Health bar is, its obviously best on top of screen, and also what we are used to for past 10 years. At most you can add the option to display health in number under their ship in parallel with the bar on top of the screen, or to disable/remove bar on top of screen and keep health under the ship. But bar position should be fixed in my opinion.

 

As for mini map, makes sense to want to move that, Shrink it, or close/minimize it for late use. It can also have 3 icons it, - for minimize, x for close, o for re-size window

 

I'm still unclear how you would display the Player List.

 

We seem to agree on chat tabs, and a zone wide chat tab.

 

You still didn't clarify if there with be Zone stat menus (so after a practice, duel, to give stats of each player, ie zone owner would input formula, and stats they want to display in window) Where will this window be displayed whenever it pops up? People will want to see it, but they won't want to close it every-time, makes sense for it to appear in a tab, then they can select to view the stats.

 

Same with a buy/sell list for zone items, If a zone like Hyperspace takes on Pheonix client, where will they display their buy menus? Will you just expect people to memorize a command? ?Buy menu open or ?Buy, or do you want to display buy in sometype of bar, so people can click it to open it. (And i think buy is better displayed outside of any other big menu, as it will be easier to find, if it says BUY right there on screen). Plus the buy menu will likely be the only menu with graphics, to show off each weapon/item, so its probably better off separate.

 

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/4923/minimap.png

 

That was one way to display button on mini map, but there are various other ways, the bottom pic is the four corner method i came up with..

 

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2107/anothermapdesign.png

Edited October 18, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Vidiot_X]

Hi Lone Outlaw,

 

i really don't see why a player should decide where their Health bar is, its obviously best on top of screen

If there is one thing I have learned about a game HUD/Interface system is that it 'must' be configurable. I would agree that it is probably a good idea to have the HUD/Interface closely match Continuum's HUD configuration, allowing users some comfort and familiarity. But, many users (I'd say half) will want to customize the HUD and informational interface. For example yesterday I enabled the radar to work within a window and now (in game) I can position the radar anywhere on the screen by just clicking on it and moving it. That makes the radar highly and easily configurable in game with no hassle. Other HUD elements can be moved around in just the same way, letting the users decide what and where HUD elements should be positioned (even re-sized) at and if they should be displayed at all. Add to this the ability to 'skin' windows and a flexible and customizable HUD/Informational interface is achieved.

 

As for mini map, makes sense to want to move that, Shrink it, or close/minimize it for late use. It can also have 3 icons it, - for minimize, x for close, o for re-size window

I am still working out the window interface but this sounds doable and you pictures look like something I would consider doing. Th radar in your example is cool and adding an image to overlay on the current radar would work. But I am still thinking this through.

 

You still didn't clarify if there with be Zone stat menus

Again, I will be deciding this here shortly. Really it is a question of management. If a zone were to open a stat window where would it go if it were minimized or hidden? This is a question I am still thinking through. A window manager will handle this but my concern here is memory and most importantly CPU/GPU usage. Having a lot of windows minimized or hidden will slow game performance on some systems. So forcing windows to be closed (not minimized or hidden) frees up performance. In a zone setting stats and other information could be centralized in a zone control HUD element. But, still thinking on this.

 

If a zone like Hyperspace takes on Pheonix client,

Remember Phoenix is a whole new game, server and client.

 

 

So, all good ideas Lone Outlaw. I will try to implement some of your ideas, but development is a fluid process and we may need to discuss this down the road a bit after I have the core of the HUD system up and running. Love the input keep it coming.

 

 

- Rich -

[Lone Outlaw]

If there is one thing I have learned about a game HUD/Interface system is that it 'must' be configurable. I would agree that it is probably a good idea to have the HUD/Interface closely match Continuum's HUD configuration, allowing users some comfort and familiarity. But, many users (I'd say half) will want to customize the HUD and informational interface. For example yesterday I enabled the radar to work within a window and now (in game) I can position the radar anywhere on the screen by just clicking on it and moving it. That makes the radar highly and easily configurable in game with no hassle. Other HUD elements can be moved around in just the same way, letting the users decide what and where HUD elements should be positioned (even re-sized) at and if they should be displayed at all. Add to this the ability to 'skin' windows and a flexible and customizable HUD/Informational interface is achieved.

 

Really if you look at your first screenshot in this post. You already display TEXT on the top left of the screen. Telling players to push f1, or f2 for certain things. Much better is to just replace this with a in game Bar that has F1, F2 etc there like my pictures. If the bar is in the way it can be made transparent, or mimized so it only sticks out from the side of the screen. Likewise, it's not necessary to click the BAR to open the F2 menu, One can simply press f2, or f3. (OBVIOUSLY BAR would open up to a menu =p)

 

In this way there really is NO need for customization, other than what is already given. Why move the bar? why close it when it can be minimized? Whats to gain from a player saying, OH this is cool i can move this bar. That's not the customization people look for in a game.

 

You already know i support a customizable game, by having the particle editor, which in a way i brought up by suggesting all sorts of weapons/graphics, you made the idea functional by incorporating a particle editor. If you allowed ships to have 50 different weapons at the same time though, the game would be damn ridiculous. Better is to have some rigidity where all ships no matter what can have only 3 weapons at a time. (much like subspace). You can NOT have 5 different guns, 3 different bombs, and 5 different mines, on a ship all at the same time. There are only 3 weapon slots, mines, bullets, guns.

 

With only 3 weapons at a time, how can the game be customizable? Well because weapons can be bought, or exchanged out. This allows customization while holding to something firm. If you will make every aspect of the game customizable, then your game will have zero identity. There will be nothing that makes it Phoenix-SS. You need some structure, scaffold, that can not be changed no matter what. Customization is epically important, but it only matters if the right things are customizable. For instance, banners, the chat system, coloring our own ship hulls, or adding symbols to them, etc. These are positive customizations. Moving the MINI map, shrinking it, closing it, making it transparent. Very much needed.

 

Moving the health bar? Not needed. Making it transparent? Probably annoying. Allowing players to display health in a percentage under their ship. A cool new feature. Having only the health under your ship displayed, and being able to HIDE the health bar on top of screen. Doable. Resizing the health bar? MAYBE if we have good eyes and can do with a smaller health bar. MOVING the health bar? NOT NEEDED. <-- WRONG type of customization.

 

I just don't see where someone would move their health bar? Bottom of the screen, in the way of the chat? in the way of the mini map? Somewhere in middle of screen? Off to the side when the health bar can't even rotate to be displayed vertically? And even if it could, guess whats on the side. The other vertical bar showing what weapons/items your ship currently has. It's just utterly pointless.

 

Again im in favor of many other customizations, like bombs having ammo limits if the zone wants that weapon to have an ammo limit, rockets can have a reload time, Some rockets can be shot off in pairs or 1 at a time. For energy weapons, overheating features. For the map editor itself, the fact that anyone's work can be uploaded to a library if they choose to be connected to the library. So many news tiles, graphics, maps, would be uploaded there, and automatically downloaded when people open the map editor next time. Lots of nice ways to customize the game, but i don't really see the point, to moving the chat across the screen, and having anything move really. The only thing that should be movable is the mini map. Everything else can be re-sizable, hidable (as in removable) or minimized, or transparent. But MOVABLE? no reason.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Cheese]

thats some constipated thinking right there

 

if the zone owner wants to have 50 guns, they should be able to

the limits should be defined by server side settings, just like the ship/weapons underlights, and the number of hp/mana/energy bars, as well as their color, and anything else

 

 

 

rich, its about time you started working on your settings system

a simple place to start would be with bullet fire delay, ship thrust/speed, energy/recharge, etc

 

 

also, with chatbox, id like to see an option to have a

(window with chat, with pub|team|server|etc filters)

or

(messages not in a window on screen with a time-dependent opacity, where they fade to transparent when they get old and stack up about half the screen during active chat periods)

and maybe an option to switch between the two configurations

Edited October 19, 2012 by Cheese

[Lone Outlaw]

Well my view is actually middle ground, between constipated or rigid, and customization.

 

If you support a ship having 50 weapons at the same time. Which isn't even what continuum has at present, then you are taking an extreme position. (Anti-Structure, anti-rigidity)

 

Another position is no customization at all, this is another extreme position (Anti-customization) None of us here agree with that position.

 

All i am asking for is for people to consider making Pheonix-ss Middle ground.

 

Your only defense for an extreme position of customization on everything, is let a zone do what they want. (So in support of full freedoms) This is admirable, and would be ideal, but also unrealistic, there are negative aspects to freedom, and i believe there are more positives to being middle ground than to being full on customization. Now negative aspects of freedom, consider a jean store. You go in and they sell only 3 pairs of jeans. You try them all, buy the one that fits best, but still lacks something, like color, or it's just slightly too long, or too short. But of course knowing there were only 3 jeans. You will be content, not happy, but content in the fact that you chose the best one, and hopefully you can wear it in. If you now go to a store that has 1000 pairs of jeans. You will try out 3, buy the best one, and realize it's not good enough. Now what happens is, you are never satisfied. You realize you could have made a better choice because there was hundreds of more jeans and you didn't try them all on. You missed out on your perfect jean! But this is just one little example, because i don't want to write a book (haha). There are many more problems i could go over with a game that has no limits. There are benifits on a developers end, but not on a players end, and the benifits are very little. For example, if you studied for an exam for 8 hours, lets assume you are smart, and learned everything. Studying one more hour has little benifits, and begins to bring in draw backs. Like you might infringe on sleeping time, you might need to eat, your brain needs a break. So a full 9 hours is equivalant to full freedom in a game. Whereas 8 hours is almost full freedom. You get many benifits from 8 hours, 9 hours adds little, and brings in many drawbacks once you reach full freedom. My point is here freedom is not this amazing glorious thing the american society likes to advertise, real freedom is damn scary. This is not to say competition isn't bad but don't mistake competition with freedom. There will be plenty of rival zones, rival ideas, in fact so much can be done with the phoenix client that doesn't have 50 weapons on each ship, that it would take 20 years to run out of ideas, before you need to edit the code to add more 'freedom.' Real freedom is dangerous.

 

 

Consider continuum; despite not being as capable and free as i would like, there is still plenty of customization in Continuum. This is almost a perfect example of middle ground. Now of course we all want continuum client to be capable of doing MORE!, Definitely. But the question to ask, is HOW much more? Is there a boundary that we shouldn't pass? When is it too much?

 

Pheonix client will be even more free than continuum, however if you take an extreme customization position, then it appears it will be more free than i'd personally like..

 

Rigidity is not a bad thing is my whole point, it adds to identity and gives a scaffold to the game. If your whole basis is that the game can be anything, then it's pretty much open source already.. and i don't really want a game to be anything.. None of the online space mmporgs do that, they have limits to the amount of weapons you can carry etc.

 

Zones like DSB, trench, EG, Choas, most likely won't adopt the 50 guns at one time scenario. So why do they even need that option? So some guy who makes a new zone can feel free to go ape retarded? Would anyone really play in a zone that has a ship which has 50 different guns? Again there is a clear distinction between having 50 weapons, or only 3 weapons at a time. With 3 weapons at a time you would still be able to exchange your weapons out from a list of 50 weapons. And you would get the new graphic and effects for the new weapon. That's essentially all the customization a player needs. It seems you want to give full customization to the developer though. (Which is an important distinction i almost missed entirely.)

 

Nothing wrong with the concept of HS, HS doesn't even have 50 different weapons at one time. HS is actually a perfect example of a rigid structure that is fully customizable.

 

Again my points are a bit philisophical, and of course you guys can do whatever you think is best, im not dictating anything, i just hope to get people to think about it.

 

 

Also,

 

If you don't agree with customization on everything, (an extreme) and view your stance as middle ground also. Then i would have to ask.. if not everything, then what specifically should be customizable, and what not? Doesn't all ships, colors, menus, chats, tiles, graphics, mean everything? Is there something you will not customize that makes your position middle ground? Obviously i want menus customized also. But i don't want to go so far as to make them MOVEABLE. Just resizable, transparent options, minimizable, or hideable. Moveable is not needed. Again its middle ground. Extreme on menus would be to do all of the above. With ships, 50 different weapons being bought/sold so a zone like HS can thrive is good, but i don't think it should be possible for any zone to have more than 3 weapons at a time on their ships. This is still middle ground. If you change the basic structure/mechanics of how continuum works, it's no longer an update to continuum. But a whole new game basically.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Vidiot_X]

it's no longer an update to continuum. But a whole new game basically.

 

I have so tried to get that point across. Phoenix is all new and based on SubSpace and Continuum. It has been that way from the start ( http://www.subspace.co/topic/26037-phoenix-ss-wiki/ ) . Same basic game play but some things are going to be different. Hopefully for the better.

 

So its helpful to look at my development process as a way to make suggestions as if you were going to update and enhance SubSpace.

 

- Rich -

[Vidiot_X]

Hi,

 

It's looking like I'll have a new client up about Wednesday (10/24). It will include the new window interface and other improvements. Especially nice is the radar which is now positionable, sizable and can be viewed full screen if need be. I'm way happy with the window interface as it will allow me to add settings and other options in game, plus it's so slick.

 

I will also try to add a bomber class ship that will include mines. I have also fixed the negative energy bug where shooting at ship would sometimes show negative energy. All of this is server side as I intended and the server now makes the call on how much energy a player has.

 

Keep rock'n.

- Rich -

[Lone Outlaw]

Thank god for the negative energy bug being gone. Lol sometimes?! show negative energy? Was all the time for me,.. i got you to -586... -300 sometimes, and -170 the most.. i was trying to get you to -999 to see if it would start the 1000's..

 

Can you make mines half the size of continuum mines? Pleeeeease.. And possibly keep the same prox range, or make it slightly smaller. Trust me small mines will be cool... I never liked those huge ass mines.. pretty blockly, unrealistic..

 

Can't wait to see the menu system, and the new features.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Cheese]

rich did u delete my post :\

 

Can you make mines half the size of continuum mines? Pleeeeease.. And possibly keep the same prox range, or make it slightly smaller. Trust me small mines will be cool... I never liked those huge ass mines.. pretty blockly, unrealistic..

 

even better:

make it customizable through settings

[Vidiot_X]

Yes.

 

At first I'll make them smaller. But down-the-road they will be customizable as well as most of the game elements/objects (ships, bullets, bombs, map and more). I'm not sure if I can make them customizable in game but with the map editor for sure.

 

I'm trying to get the editor (although still very alpha) up as well on Wednesday but we will see.

 

I'm off to rock the drums and guitar with my band buds. Back soon.

- Rich -

[Cheese]

play freebird

[Vidiot_X]

^lol... We did everything else.. was a good night.

[Lone Outlaw]

yar.. curious what cheese said, can pm me (i always copy and save most of my posts, in case of deletion)

 

Yeah i agree mines should be customizable in size, shape, graphics, etc, just i prefer small mines.. i like space to be more realistic than anything else, so the smaller the mine the better really, considering how big the ships are.. Small mines with huge explosions are cool.. personally i'd make them do a ton of damage too. like if a warbird had 800 enegery, a mine would do 400.

 

It would also be cool if you could make 1 mine set off another. Chain reaction mines, another mine is in proximity of first mines explosion, this way you can have a combination of damage. Then you would need damage for all that.

 

So if you directly run into first mine, if total damage is 400, you take all 400, second mine being set off because it was in range of first mines explosion, so you take 200 damage, third mine being set off because it was in range of of second mine explosion, you take 100 damage etc. or i dunno..

 

A zone with rockets will be awesome, and ammo limits on the rockets, im tired of energy type bombs. staggered pair rockets? so you press tab, 1 rocket leaves first, second rocket shortly after, in the direction you are aiming.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Vidiot_X]

Hi,

 

I've started to add encryption to packets as well as other sensitive data. So the next release will include this. Still working on button code and topmost windows but should be ready for Wednesday. If I have time I will also be trying to get a name/password/chat server up and running next week. The idea being to off load these tasks onto another server freeing up the game/zone server to do the rest.

 

Back to coding,

- Rich -

[Vidiot_X]

Collisions looking better. Just about ready for Cheese to do his check every wall and angle thing.

[Cheese]

stream cypher or block cypher?

 

or just checksums?

[Lone Outlaw]

Why would cheese check every wall? When every wall and every part of the wall had a collision problem last time. lol You couldn't sit next to a wall, it would just bounce you. Then there was those gaps in the wall, where you could fly inside walls after.. Edited October 24, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Vidiot_X]

@Cheese - I will say nothing. Stream cypher for now but that may change as I am now experimenting with different methods. For names and passwords I will probably use a cryptographic hash function like MD5 or SHA-2. Plus lots of other techniques to block hacking.

 

 

- Rich -

[Cheese]

the client i will eventually write will have double hashing as well

so thats good

Edited October 24, 2012 by Cheese

[Vidiot_X]

Just add salt

[Vidiot_X]

Hi,

 

Running a bit behind schedule trying to add second ship. I should have the next client up by morning. I will also start a new topic as this one is getting long.

 

- Rich -

[Vidiot_X]

Still at it,

 

I'm hooking in the code to manage the various ship dynamic types (the physics attributes) and images. This code has kind of been hanging around throughout development and needed to be updated. So that's where I'm at currently, getting it updated. Almost there.

 

- Rich -

[Vidiot_X]

Installing debian Linux... Fingers crossed.