Population Counts

[Lone Outlaw]

Well that was educating, thanks for the info on ASSS.

 

http://dsbguru.probo...splay&thread=25

 

According to post date it was September 2006, and i also remember this interview.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[JoWie]

The most time consuming and biggest source of mistakes are when dealing with threads in ASSS. I think it needs a different approach to threading if it should get more adoption.

 

I also suspect there might be a few bugs in the core asss code related to threads, but I am not sure about this.

Edited July 28, 2012 by JoWie

[Stag Shot]

ASSS is what you make of it. You can no longer argue about stability, it's core is stable these days. Like others mentioned, the disincentive for the remaining SG zones is that it would require WORK just to get to the point they're at now. There would be some settings changes, bot migration issues (*commands, no longer having src), and a learning curve.

 

Then there's the question of whether they have developers capable of modifying/creating modules. This is where things become sensitive, and zone stability can become an issue. A poorly written bot will just crash it's core, poorly written modules recycle zones! And another problem is manpower, from the failed EG transition to asss, they relied on one person to port the entire zone. It's no surprise that he burnt out and bailed after a month or two.

 

But like someone mentioned, free hosting and laziness probably keep zones on SG. For those interested, PB is moving to a new server soon, and we'd be glad to host ASSS zones (bandwidth permitting). I usually provide a shell account and do the first compile to ensure things are working, then you can do whatever you want. Numpf and I may also help here and there if you get stumped =)

[Cheese]

Not just with your fakes either, with any fakes, and whenever they need to be removed.

I haven't had problems with fake players when not using his module.

 

why argue with yourself?

 

I think it needs a different approach to threading

 

you shouldnt really be using threads directly, you should be using the timer stuff, which just spawns a worker thread

just use the standard interfaces

i havnt had any issues with them at all

[PoLiX]

Am holding off on the installer update due to priit actually replying.

 

But I do still think the zones need to turn off peering unless he replies he is willing to tweak it. He most likely doesn't care if they are altering population or not, won't put any pressure on him.

 

Also toying with the downloader for the installer to attempt to download an updated zone.dat off the server during install. This way we can always keep it up to date without chasing down the installer. May even have it check the exe and dlls, but would really be unnecessary as the zone should report an issue anyways. Though might be nice to get them to do it before hand, save more potential players.

 

This may also give the ability to have more accurate stats on how may installs per downloads we actually get.

[JoWie]

I think it needs a different approach to threading

 

you shouldnt really be using threads directly, you should be using the timer stuff, which just spawns a worker thread

just use the standard interfaces

i havnt had any issues with them at all

 

I am not talking about spawning threads or using working threads. If you write a non trivial module, you will have to think about how asss uses it threads (usually so you know when to lock). There are callbacks that can come from a thread that is not the main.

Threads are involved in the crashes of hscore.

 

I am not saying threads are bad, I am saying how they are used in ASSS is unnecessarily complex.

 

Also, I remember you pming me for help with issues that ended up being related to threading a few times.

[Resol]

@ Cheese

 

I guess I need to be extremely careful how I word things around here or I might confuse the intelligent people.

 

What I mean is:

 

When I use Cheese modifications to fake.so and I spawn HIS fake players and give them HIS functions to be able to fly and fight in the arena; when it's time to close the arena the zone will crash.

 

When I use Cheese modifications to fake.so and I spawn a fake player and don't give it any special properties whatsoever, when it's time to close the arena the zone will crash.

 

When I remove Cheese fake.so and use the one that comes standard with ASSS, I can create fake players, I can remove fake players, and I can close the arena without crashing the zone.

[Cheese]

i might have compiled the linux binaries improperly, or there might be a problem with your platform

[Lone Outlaw]

Well the ASSS on hockey zone keeps crashing the zone. A few times a day it might go down.

 

Right now it went down at 9:20 Sunday July 29 for about 10 minutes.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Static Burn]

I personally think Ghost Ship's threat of removing the zones from SSC was a bit far, but he is my superior, and that is his call.

 

There needs to be rules that zones play by in order to remain on SSC and if they break those rules they should be removed. One of those rules should certainly be to not inflate your zone's population by 1000. Threatening to kick them off if they don't stop sounds like a no brainer to me. Maybe what eg/pb is doing should be against the rules as well and the same threat should be given to them. So decide if eg/pb is breaking the rules and then, regardless of what that decision is, hyperspace should be informed that they have 10 days to remove their 1000 population inflation (they can still be allowed to inflate by 100 if eg/pb is still inflating so eg/pb won't have an advantage over them) or be kicked off SSC. In the end this is about fairness and the status quo is very unfair to all the zones that aren't inflating their populations at all.

[Cheese]

except that the zone owner of the +1000 is a member of the council and is a very honest person

[Dr Brain]

Nothing would make me happier than official action against Hyperspace, since that would involve official action against the other zones doing the same thing. My goal was never to help Hyperspace, but to show the other zones how incredibly annoying and detrimental population inflation really is.

[»jabjabjab]

Well said, Brain.

[PoLiX]

Except when action was threatened against all the zones, you threatened to shutdown hyperspace in retaliation?

[Lone Outlaw]

Still lots of threats, and no actions.. either way. Plus if Brain shutdown Hypserspace for a reason like that, it would make him the next Hoch. Tons of players enjoying hyperspace.

 

Is there any update on when or if zones will display correct populations?

Edited August 13, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Dr Brain]

Except when action was threatened against all the zones, you threatened to shutdown hyperspace in retaliation?

 

You clearly misunderstood. I will not remove my population inflation until all of the SSC zones have stopped. Since none of the zones are interested in stopping, you will be removing them alongside Hyperspace. At that point there will be no reason for me to continue running Hyperspace, and I will shut it down. There was no retaliation. There was no threat. Just cause and effect.

[Lone Outlaw]

If all the zones will be removed. Including Hypserspace. All you have to do is, tell Polix you will display correct populations. Then polix will add you back. (You'll be the first zone back, meaning you can display correct population now, since no other zones are back yet)

 

All the other zones will still be offline (because they were removed) until they agree to the terms of having ssc access. (Displaying correct populations)

 

So why would you shut down hyperspace for good?

 

 

From there if a zone breaks population display again, polix will just have them removed. So there is no reason for you to protest by inflating your population again.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Static Burn]

Nothing would make me happier than official action against Hyperspace, since that would involve official action against the other zones doing the same thing.

 

Right now arena sharing is inflating eg by 10 and pb by 51. TW is also inflated not by arena sharing but by 51 bots. Hyperspace is inflated by 1000. How is this even remotely close to doing the same thing?

[Lone Outlaw]

Right now arena sharing is inflating eg by 10 and pb by 51. TW is also inflated not by arena sharing but by 51 bots. Hyperspace is inflated by 1000. How is this even remotely close to doing the same thing?

 

This reminds me of someone i knew in highschool named robert, where he marked my shirt, so i marked his back, so he marked mine twice back, (one to be even, and one to get ahead) and we went back and forth until we looked like zebras. Needless to say i had to steal his pen because he was going crazy, and then it was finally over. But this kid would do something back to you 5x more extreme, than you what you did in the first place.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Dr Brain]

Right now arena sharing is inflating eg by 10 and pb by 51. TW is also inflated not by arena sharing but by 51 bots. Hyperspace is inflated by 1000. How is this even remotely close to doing the same thing?

 

As usual, Hyperspace does things far better than other zones.

 

EDIT: I'll curtail the flames by adding a note saying that this post is a joke. It should be read as a joke. Replies taking it seriously will be ignored.

[»passplay]

As usual, Hyperspace does things far better than other zones.

 

All the BS aside, this made me lol.

[Cheese]

Right now eg is stealing $10 pb $51. TW is also stealing $51. Hyperspace is stealing $1000. How is this even remotely close to doing the same thing?

 

this is why you are dumb

[Lone Outlaw]

Brain so you agree with post #92? Because what you said about shutting down hyperspace doesn't make sense. Especially if you and polix are on the same page, and disagree with skewed population counts.

 

Once HS is removed with all other zones. It's a matter of simply coming back, (which im sure polix would allow) and displaying HS with a proper population.

Other zones won't come back, and if they do they need to agree to display proper populations. Then if they break pop count display again, polix would remove them for good. No need for HS to protest.

 

Cheese if you agree people should have a criminal record, and possibly up to 2 years in jail for stealing a loaf of bread. (3$ item) then sure. It is the same as stealing 500$ from a store.

(though i think the actual law is that anything over 1000$ is serious - only achievable if you lifted something worth that much, or stole from a store over a long period of time and accumulated merchandise adding up to 1000$ or more)

 

However i never agreed with society on that aspect. Some people can't feed themselves, and 3$ is not something to lose your life over. Sure the person could have realized this, but they were desperate and not in a sound state of mind. Stealing will always be stealing, but 3$ is less than 1000$, and that's a fact. You can't treat it as the same thing. For murder, i can kill a cat, and i may not even be prosecuted, but if i kill a human i will get 20 to life. Murder is murder, but it's not the same crime according to the law even.

 

So really if someone was to give punishments. Excessive force, excessive anything, gets the greater punishment under the law. Someone who pirates 1000's of videos, and songs, and opens a website to help steal this content, will go to jail for 10-20 years. Someone like me who steals one song will get a warning. AGAIN, stealing is stealing, but the first guy gets the greater punishment.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[midoent]

are hyperspace mods retarded? YOU GUYS ARE KILLING THE WHOLE GAME: ALL THE ZONES. Why? because complete newbs who enter your top of the list zone see that noone is playing and don't bother trying other zones. I don't know about other zones but tw bots all have a useful function. I wish d1st0rt was in charge again he'd never stand for this.

[Dr Brain]

So many things wrong with your post. This has never been about bots, Hyperspace was always my zone, and mods only enforce rules, they have no relation to how a server is run.

 

As for killing the game, yes I agree. The population inflation was killing the game, so I decided to accelerate it and show people how bad it was. Never thought it'd go this long, of course, but zone ops are a stubborn bunch (they have to be, to last).