Message Received...

[PoLiX]

Hello,

 

I was personally tasked to review your game "Continuum" as staff of the gaming website

.

 

I must applaud your community on its efforts to share itself with the world, and to keep such

an old game operating. The large amount of servers, dedicated websites, and player development

that has gone into keeping this game in its current state is amazing.

 

But for all I have found great, I found something that personally goes against everything I

feel gamers believe in. I was at first astonished by the large populations of the servers when

I first loaded the client, but quickly found the servers actually almost empty. Upon asking

where all the other players were I was told a long story by the players of "SSCE Hyperspace"

about the other "zones" abusing the system. "The other zones are inflating their population to

try and get more players" one person told me.

 

I have to say as a new player that my excitement was gone immediately. I found myself

questioning the motives of a game where the owners would allow such actions, and where server

admins would go to such lengths as to modify their own server software for this type of abuse.

Thinking "What other abusive abilities have they modified into their server software" left me

a bit dissapointed.

 

I am honestly conflicted on what to do. I had high hopes when I was asked to review such an

old community saved game. We had received various requests over the years to do so, and my new

editor being a former player had hoped to find some nostalgia in my work. Instead I had to

report the actions I found, and he seemed sadly unsurprised.

 

To the point. He would like me to continue to review your game, and was hoping that you could

shed some light on the current abuse I have found. If you cannot then can you please point me

to someone who could. I would like to be fair in my writing as our readers deserve to know the

whole story.

 

I appologize ahead of time if I was misled in my understanding of the situation.

 

Hope to hear back from you soon.

 

 

Sorry if spaced oddly, pasting it from e-mail lost the paragraph formatting. Was all just 1 big long sentence, though I think i fixed it.

 

Sad but true. I did e-mail him back explaining what the servers were doing with the shared arenas and all, but sadly not the 1st time someone has messaged/e-mailed me about zones "faking" their population.

 

I removed his name and the website as I don't wish to start any attacks, or anyone attempting to discredit him saying it is a small website, or a website they never read anyways, etc. etc. (though it isn't a small website by any means looking at forum activity). I would rather we look at this as a wake up call to our actions.

 

I talked to Ghost Ship about Priit again, and I have brought this issue up to the council on behalf of the zones pointing fingers at it again, but neither side is budging. Priit has been made aware, but has not taken the time to try and fix it. And the zones running the feature have not reconsidered if their players are truly benefiting from the feature anymore, or if it was just another new toy that has worn out its welcome.

 

All in all, just figured I'd share.

[Sketter]

a desperate dieing man tries everything before death. Edited July 3, 2012 by Sketter

[Dr Brain]

Yeah, it really bothers me that I'm effectively killing the game quickly because a few zones want to kill the game slowly over a feature no one uses. But I guess at least it's quick.

[Cheese]

SSCE HyperSpace: Honesty

[Resol]

I wish all ASSS zones would just run the redirect module to enable ?go was a way to jump from zone to zone. I have it setup so I can go to any zone on SSC, but I can't go back. Would be nice if everyone set up the same thing, excluding subgame servers.

[»ZiGNoTZaG]

Well, that's depressing. I can't see anyone being able to explain that in any way that justifies it.

[Hakaku]

I accidentally did the same thing the other day, logged into EG thinking it had some 130 players, only to go in and find out it had 0 players and 40 bots.

[Cheese]

and people thought eg having more bots than tw sitting doing nothing in a empty subarena was bad

lol

[Resol]

and people thought eg having more bots than tw sitting doing nothing in a empty subarena was bad

lol

 

TWChat> Pop=135 | Online=90 | Outsiders=6 | Bots=49 | Database=90 | Queued=0 | Last update 1 sec ago

 

A lot of which do something, and a lot of which don't. Zones faking their population has been around since the begging of player run zones.

 

I honesty don't see bots counting has players is all that much worse than the glitch which can be fixed on ASSS zones, and can be fixed on Subgame, and the that people set up the "peer" module even know how to fix it.

 

The reason that this is justified in one sense, is that it gives more connectivity between multiple zones.

 

I believe it is a good idea to try and mesh the zones together to promote larger games and cross zone events. The population isn't very high, and a lot of players that want to play end up sitting around waiting, or leaving.

 

I've noticed Trench Wars bots aren't very stable, and they go down a lot, or specific event bots are not working, and the only thing that people were still playing was the public arena, and a lot of trench wars players rather play other competitive style events and end up just leaving the game, and checking back every so often until the bots are restored.

 

I've noticed when HyperSpace goes off line, a lot of those players will go check out other zones and stay in one until there zone is restored.

 

Using ASSS, it is possible to make a Central HUB Zone, where all players could enter and be well aware of what zones have what population, what each zone has for events, the status of those games, when new games were starting, news / info of tournaments, and honestly it could go into much further details.

 

The only real issue I see with this, is using the redirect / moveto features on asss and subgame, the map and level files are all bundled into one zone folder. So an easy fix would be to have all zones lable their map and level file names to, ZoneInitials_ZoneInitialsMapName, for example: eg_egelim.lvl and eg_egelim_lvzname.lvz. And this would insure that zones didn't mix them up and force players to have to redownload the files every time.

 

I think with the use of bots in both subgame and asss, you could enable a World Chat style bot, that would relay messages from the public servers in the other zones, bots can even pick up arena messages, for when they advertise events. Players could enable or disable any zone chat that wish to listen to, and simply be sent a remote message from a central bot in the Hub Server that all the other chat bots report pub messages to. (should also enable ignoring features to not receive messages from a specific player.)

 

I don't think this would be possible on ASSS until being able to use the remote message function, (which I'm sure someone will claim works, so please prove it).

 

The features you could implement in this system would be very beneficial to the ever shrinking population. And instead of reporting the amount of players for each zone, you can do away with directory servers, and pack the client with the (possible multiple) Hub Zone(s). I say multiple for 2 reasons, one, you could have one in Europe, US, UK, ect, not only so players at least get a good connection to a Hub Zone, but also for backups in case a Hub Zone Server goes down. Most zones I am sure will want to maintain their own server, but many small zones could even merge into a Central Hub Zone, and again this would greatly promote games and increase game sizes.

 

Anyway, those are a few things I've thought about when thinking of ways to improve the game, I know if people put aside trying to do everything by themselves, this goal could be achieved.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Resol

[Lone Outlaw]

The reason that this is justified in one sense, is that it gives more connectivity between multiple zones.

 

I believe it is a good idea to try and mesh the zones together to promote larger games and cross zone events. The population isn't very high, and a lot of players that want to play end up sitting around waiting, or leaving.

 

DSB has been involved in the merge, and it didn't help their zone even by 1%. Their zone maintains its 20-30 player population. They have got no players from EG or elsewhere. Really it's not justified to do something wrong, because you have the intention for a good outcome. In this case the intentions didn't even pull through. DSB is still dying. And im not sure the connectivity between the other zones involved has done much for them either.

 

Also DSB doesn't lie about it's population, other than displaying/including bots.

 

Just because zones always lied about population doesn't mean it should continue if we can fix it.

 

I think most people would prefer an accurate population display, and the exemption of bots from that display.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[PoLiX]

DSB has the lucky fact they run their own server. Stag Shot modified the fix.dll (1 byte change btw) so that their zone won't add the shared arena populations to its total population.

 

Extreme Games tried uploading this fix.dll in a shady kind of way, and it crashed EG and kept it offline for a couple hours until Priit could restore it. Sadly seems he restored the old fix.dll. He has been sent the fixed fix.dll and told of how to fix the it if he wishes to do it himself.

 

Nothing has happened yet, but Ghost said he will try spamming him himself after this weekend.

[Cheese]

why not mandate that all the other liars like star warzone either stop the sharing or upload the fixed dll, or lose their ssc slot?

 

why is this even a problem

[»Lynx]

The above should have been done months ago.

[No_Remorse]

I agree it should be fixed, but why single out an ancient zone with no active staff members(Star Warzone). It earned it's SSC slot many years ago my friend.

 

But fix the damn population counts, it's childish to have these kinds of things present in our community.

[Lone Outlaw]

Childish? i think it represents the community well lol

 

Why if we had anything honest here then we'd be lying to people about who we are! lol

[»Lynx]

A single zone shouldn't have been targeted; all of the zones which were doing it should have been. The issue is due to everything SSC being administered by somebody who lacks the time to administer anything. While it's good we get all this hosting for free, and the hosting is good (expensive) it's not good for the community as a whole.

 

Saying that, with the game in the state it's in right now there's not much point in making a change now, the focus should be on a new client, and of course, with the new client a new credentials server. With the low populations count now, SSC isn't as valuable as it once was.

[Lone Outlaw]

The issue is due to everything SSC being administered by somebody who lacks the time to administer anything.

 

This happens to also be the problem of most zones. The sysops, zone owners, and staff don't have time. And yet hold up the development of their respective zones, just to hold on to a title. Rather than do what's best for the community instead of whats best for themselves.

 

Saying that, with the game in the state it's in right now there's not much point in making a change now, the focus should be on a new client, and of course, with the new client a new credentials server. With the low populations count now, SSC isn't as valuable as it once was.

 

Even if the focus should be a new client, does that mean Polix, yourself or anyone else who can contribute to a new client, will suddenly start helping Richard Betson with his client? Or the Jabjabjab with the Java client? I think Dev on the new clients will proceed the way it always has. One man doing everything, and taking breaks in between dragging it out for years.

 

Which leaves the rest of us with enough time to waste doing something else.

 

There is rarely any team work here.

 

By the way would a new client still have Subgame or ASSS? There are still zones using subgame.

 

Also if all four or five clients are completed at the same time. How will we decide which one to use? which one is the best etc? The one most radically not like Continuum, or the one like Continuum - that gives more functionality, options, security and customization? I would prefer the latter. Because if we wanted to play Cosmic Rift we would have all switched clients by now.

 

Not to mention some clients started development before others. So the newer ones won't be as out of date as the older ones. Kind of like programming a game in 2000, and releasing it in 2012. I think Duke Nukem, DarkFall and some other games are guilty of this.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[»Lynx]

I personally don't feel that the issue is because zone operators want to hold onto their title; rather that they can't find other people who can fill their shoes without screwing everything up.

 

Both Jab and RB have got good contenders for new clients; whether they finish them or not is not really anybodies concern but theirs or the developers that assist them. Anybody can help, including yourself.

 

I don't think the issue is the lack of team work; I think the issue is the lack of people who have time to develop. People cherish their free time.

[Cheese]

they wont finish their clients

i guarantee it

• rb is like dr brain, he knows how but is busy irl, and his client is going to be a completely different game
  
• jab doesnt know programming well enough, and has been waiting on action from jowie for multiple months, and every time i have seen that happen the project has died, without fail (everspace anyone?)
  

i have been tossing around the idea of writing a barebones client with code styled directly from the asss core, uploading it to a repository somewhere, and allowing people to work on modules themself, but i feel like ive turned into a dr brain lately

 

 

.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Cheese

[Lone Outlaw]

I personally don't feel that the issue is because zone operators want to hold onto their title; rather that they can't find other people who can fill their shoes without screwing everything up.

 

This is true, in the case of a healthy zone like Trench Wars, or zones that maintain their population. You don't want people to screw up something good. Never.

But in other circumstances, when everything you are doing, or not doing, is making a zone worse..(especially if your not doing anything)

 

It's time to let the next guy try something.. because either way the zone is dead, so whats the harm in trusting someone else?

Edited July 10, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[spidernl]

Solution:

• Make bots not count as population.
  
• Either get rid of inter-zone arenas or fix it adding to zone population.
  

Which should have been done about half a year ago.

 

Also:

allowing people to work on modules themself

Won't work. Even if you managed to get the basics done, relying on others to finish your project means it will never get anywhere near finished. People would rather write their own stuff from scratch.

Edited July 9, 2012 by spidernl

[»Lynx]

In a perfect world, it works. But, Subspace being a 2D space ship game, it doesn't work. You end up with half the zone banned because of a 13 year olds banstick got crazy.

 

But, perhaps, I am wrong. I don't know. Seldom those that are capable step up to do the job.

[Lone Outlaw]

Most of us are in our 20's now anyway, or even 30's.

 

Well priitk is the only one who can fix the dll. So the only options are to force all the zones to disable the merge or be taken offline. And then let them know they can merge once they fix the dll, or Priitk does.

 

And a real question, because i don't know the answer. When was the last time that it happened someone new on staff banned the whole zone? I hear people mention it all the time, i don't see it happen. I've seen original staff banning a whole zone. The whole MG incident (although i don't know the details) wasn't that involving original staff? It wasn't some new guy who asked for a chance to fix things?

 

True i've seen people recently hired, abuse powers and ban one or two people they don't like. (not a whole zone) But in that case, it's not too painful to unban the people, and remove the abusers powers. Now you have actual evidence the 20 year old will act like a 13 year old, and not just speculation or personal opinion.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Lone Outlaw

[Cheese]

relying on others to finish your project means it will never get anywhere near finished.

 

its already finished, other people can choose to improve it or implement the ideas that i have already fleshed out

[Resol]

Lone Outlaw == Avast