Pub 1

[Unix]

Wondering what you guys think of a secondary pub for smaller more organized games with more constraints than Pub 0 which would be left as is.

 

The idea is basically to restrict Pub 1 to players that want to play on an organized team. There would at least be a ZB needed to help organize. Similar to how Hockey Zone is ran, but instead a bot would handle the features instead of a module, the bot will restrict players based on several things.

 

-Player experience (Minimum 8000 exp)

At this point in time, not only will a player have Antideath, but at the same time most players will have learned how to play properly if they are completely new to the zone. There is also the ability to bypass this requirement if someone who is over X amount of exp or some other requirement, such as having won 10 games in pub 1, they can then "invite" the lesser exp player onto their team.

 

-Team sizes (7v7 max)

After a certain point, team sizes are just obscene and actually hurt the game. The point of this pub is to make it more organized to the point that it's a clean game and not a ton of useless gun/bomb spam and what not.

 

-Fields (One per team at a time with delay)

Pretty self explanatory, one field by a team at a time and there's a delay. Since this is an organized pub, the chances of a player simply trying to hurt the team by fielding whenever will greatly lower.

 

-Captains (Two captains)

At the beginning of a match, a captain will be chosen by the bot or module. The best and easiest way to do this will just be first come first serve. Obviously this might hurt sometimes because of a player being bad or choosing poorly, but overall this will help weed out players who dont know what they're doing. This works extremely well in Hockey Zone and there's little to no reason why it shouldnt work in Hyperspace. The captains will also choose who is on their team and at the same time captains can !kick players for whatever reason. Again, HZ has this feature as well and it is extremely effective and is abused sometimes, but more often than not works out in the end. This is to keep players in line who are not helping the team.

 

-Ballers

Allowed, as long as they do not interfere with flagging. This will boost the pub 1 jackpot and at the same time give players who wanna be in this pub something to do. If more than 3 ballers wish to play, they can fight among themselves.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Unix

[Yin Yang]

So have 2 pubs? My only problem with this is the population. if Hyperspace had more people then i think this would be awesome.

[baked cake]

i will live in this arena. if its not dun in hs then tm master shoud put it up in devastation. I am about done with current hs team sort.

 

 

 

 

*edit - I used to think the zone should welcome new players. but now id rather have a zone that boots out dumb players.

Edited February 6, 2012 by baked cake

[Cheese]

as i said before, if spidernl sends me the source code for the current crap evener, i will write a new one that actually works

[Unix]

I understand the population concern, the thing is that this is for 7v7 "max". You can have a team of 5v5 or whatever and still play. The key is to make it so players who know what they're doing can play with other players who know what they're doing and not be interfered with by players who dont know what they're doing.

 

If anything this might boost population by bringing back older players who didnt like the fact they had to team with players who had no idea what they're doing. I'm sure this idea will keep veterans playing rather than making them leave. Hyperspace vets tend to leave.

 

as i said before, if spidernl sends me the source code for the current crap evener, i will write a new one that actually works

The problem isnt evener, the problem is that players dont wanna play with certain players for whatever reason. Whether it's because they dont know what they're doing, or because they just suck and dont get better, an organized pub will definitely fix that.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Unix

[NuB KiNG]

this is GREAT except we will need to make Pub 1's center interesting enough for people with -8k EXP to play in. otherwise they will just quit

[Unix]

Nope, nothing would change - If anything outside of ballers, nothing would really go on in center. This arena is meant more for nonstop organized flagging with ballers being the icing to the cake to help boost the jackpot reward.

[Yin Yang]

Would all people be allowed in pub 0 and only the ones with 8000+ be allowed in pub 1?

[spidernl]

Insufficient population. We can't afford splitting up pub into two arenas.

 

Not particularly interesting idea either, I'd rather revive privs and find some way to make them work in a flagging setting without inevitably turning flaggames into flank fests between either a pub freq and a priv freq or between two pub freqs attacking a private freq.

 

I'm not really a fan of this kind of the elitist idea behind it either, really. Let's all get along.

 

Edit: Also, the problem with 7v7+ flaggames being somewhat problematic (too much spam, no real options to leak or do anything interesting other than repel sumo) can be addressed differently, as it is mainly a base issue. Small bases don't really work with large flaggames, while wide-open, large bases don't work well with small flaggames.. There might even be some plans to solve this, but they require a couple coding changes here and there and various map modifications.

 

Edit2: Wait, I don't follow. Why is a "ZB" required for this? What can a Zone Bot do that a module can't? Protip: this is a rethorical question and the answer is "nothing".

Edited February 6, 2012 by spidernl

[Unix]

Would all people be allowed in pub 0 and only the ones with 8000+ be allowed in pub 1?

You can enter the other arena, you just cant play, unless you are invited by a player that can invite.

 

Insufficient population. We can't afford splitting up pub into two arenas.

Yes we can. Besides, it's not like a pop of 40 needs to have one pub only. A pop of 30 can easily sustain two pubs. Especially when the second pub is mainly for players who want to play a more organized style. I would imagine that this style would bring back players who quit because they were forced to play with newbs no matter what. If anything, this will boost the overall population.

 

Not particularly interesting idea either, I'd rather revive privs and find some way to make them work in a flagging setting without inevitably turning flaggames into flank fests between either a pub freq and a priv freq or between two pub freqs attacking a private freq.

 

I'm not really a fan of this kind of the elitist idea behind it either, really. Let's all get along.

Idk, this is a pretty good idea. There are plenty of people who have liked this idea. I'd be all for privs as well, but this is a quicker fix as well as being something that would still let pub be newb friendly.

 

If it's elitist maybe that's the way it should be? Many other zones have similar styles in which they exclude players who dont know what they're doing because it ruins the fun for other players. We're simply separating players who dont know what they're doing to players who do, if anything this will encourage newbs to try to get better faster.

 

The last flag game you were in, a lot of the team you were with was useless. In a 15v15 game that it was, you could easily split it into two pubs and also have much more organized playing with players who will carry their weight. Who wants to be forced onto a team in which you have to carry someone else to win?

 

Edit: Also, the problem with 7v7+ flaggames being somewhat problematic (too much spam, no real options to leak or do anything interesting other than repel sumo) can be addressed differently, as it is mainly a base issue. Small bases don't really work with large flaggames, while wide-open, large bases don't work well with small flaggames.. There might even be some plans to solve this, but they require a couple coding changes here and there and various map modifications.

 

Edit2: Wait, I don't follow. Why is a "ZB" required for this? What can a Zone Bot do that a module can't? Protip: this is a rethorical question and the answer is "nothing".

A lot of the zone's issues are due to large flag games. Thorring, fielding, bomb lines, gun lines, etc.

 

The point of a ZB is to make things a little easier in terms of having a population of people who could make the bot vs people who can make a module.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Unix

[Cheese]

the problem is that players dont wanna play with certain players for whatever reason

the thing is that this is for 7v7 "max".

 

oh i get it, this is so you can form your little elitist cliques, while the people not in your cliques get to sit in the empty pub

[Unix]

7v7 will hardly make the other pub empty. This is to make well organized flag games instead of two pub freqs where you'll be lucky to have someone competent enough to help and people who will carry their weight.

 

edit: If you are good enough and can contribute to the team, you will be picked. It's not about cliques or whatever, it's about making it so players that know what they're doing arent subjected to always having to play with players who dont know what they're doing or are just dead weight to a team.

 

If you are any good, you'll get picked to play. Newbs will try to get better so that they can play in pub 1 over pub 0.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Unix

[Patman1]

Well I am kind of tethering between wether this is a good idea or a bad idea. I think the biggest argument against this is the zone population, yeah sure we can support a 15v15 flag game, but as someone said on pup chat (I forget who it was) the zone cannot do it reliably. I haven't been around this zone for that long, neither have I been that active on the forums, so my call might not be the most informed. I think the first thing we should do is get regular pub0 flagging fixed, essentially what spider said. Most of the problems do arise from the bases themselves. Maybe Thors should be more expensive so they are less spammed and more organized (as in they don't just flow in constantly regardless of wether the said thored team is antiwarping the thorring team or not, but they would actually require preparation by the team to send them all in more or less one shot).

 

Anyways, let's say we do actually go through with this idea, nothing guarantees newbs that became good through experience to be chosen by the captains of the flagging frequencies. I mean, if there are a bunch of veterans online and known good players, I probobly wouldn't be picked. a 7v7 limit might be not enough, actually i think the bigger the flags game are the better.

 

We can't expect to raise the zone pop by immediatly scaring the new players away too, especially since this game is already hard enough to pick up as it is.

 

I think that having only one field avaible per team at a time with a delay isn't that good of an idea, sometimes you get 2-3 sharks to flank and cloak in to put a field down to clear the team and then another to clear the anti-deaths...

 

But of course this might have a positive side to it. Flag droppers would have to remain usefull, antiwarp and xradar, spare fields, or an anchor lanc. The games would theoretically be more organized (but this can be fixed in pub0 flagging). And you would have interesting and creative tactics used to clear the opposing team.

 

What I am trying to say is, It has it's ups and downs, but we shouldn't try to circumvent the problems with flagging in pub0 by just splitting and creating a pub1 and letting the newbs deal with it...

[lotharl]

i'm not totally against this idea, i think it would make basing more fun. After all it will give more control to the the players to have greater balance/advanced games. I think it is at lest worth a try see how well it works.

 

 

Quchi.

[spidernl]

This isn't happening. We don't have enough pop, I don't like the idea, and it's more work than privs to implement.

Come up with good ideas for privs instead, please.

Edited February 7, 2012 by spidernl

[Unix]

A second controlled pub is extremely plausible given our population. If anything, this idea will increase the overall population of the zone. You will have vets who want small organized games in one pub and a second pub where anyone and everyone can play.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages in both pubs. Pub 0 will have the ability to go beyond 7v7, well beyond. Many players actually prefer to be able to play when it's 15v15 and they still have that option.

 

Right now there are about 30 players in pub. That can easily sustain pub 0 and pub 1 together. If you're really worried about population going from pub 0 to pub 1, you can always make the limit for pub 1 smaller. For example 5v5 or 6v6, and have a fee to enter the arena and play. This will help keep everyone from entering. Also a spectator fee, etc. There are ways to make sure players dont simply stay in pub 1.

 

Whether or not this is harder than privs in pub 0 is debatable, seeing as how people have asked for privs over the span since privs were disabled, and nothing has been done about it. Players cant even go on their own freqs away from everyone else since anyone can enter your freq.

[op2rules]

Yea this is a pretty sleek idea that we can only really know if it's good or not by trying it out. I like the idea of removing all the vets from pub to give newbies a better shot at killing each other without being sweeped by superships and whatnot. 7v7 was always a solid number back in old days of private teams and made for a sweet balance where one person can make a turning move in a game.

[Unix]

What a lot of people are forgetting about zones with two pubs is that often times, the pubs were near identical. However, one pub was always the pub players would always try to get into, there was no differentiation between the pubs.

 

This situation is different. There will be two pubs, but unlike other zones, there's going to be a vast difference in the pubs which will differentiate and allow both pubs to prosper.

 

You have pub 0 which will have centering (which is big imo for bringing up games), balling (which will increase pub 0 jackpot constantly), you can have games with 20v20 and freedom to normally do whatever you want.

 

Pub 1 on the other hand will have disadvantages. Smaller jackpot rewards, simply because teams will be smaller more often than not than pub 0 and also there wont be nearly as much balling as pub 0 will have. There wont be any centering in pub 1 either, so people wont just be doing whatever, there's going to basically be continuous flag games with experienced players.

 

If you want to make this more exclusive, you could pay for "membership" to pub 1 so that way not as many players will stay in or constantly be in pub 1, and you need to play in pub 0 to get a higher cash flow so you can keep your pub 1 membership. There are lots of ways to make this work. This isnt supporting two pubs, this is bringing something into the zone that is sorely missed and wanted.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Unix

[spidernl]

You people can't really be this naive..

[WhiskeyTango]

Sure they can..