Changes to Make Zone Beginner Friendly

[BZAP]

HS is a tough zone to learn due to all the new commands and the sheer number of items available. It takes hours and hours to acquaint oneself with the itemset - partly due to its extensive nature and moreso due to exp requirements. I think our system can use some additions and streamlining that will encourage more people to come and stay. The idea is to simplify features and itemset to encourage, rather than limit, build experimentation.

 

In regards to flagging:

- Automatically place warbird and javelin on new accounts. This will curb the constant "how do I buy a ship" or "how do I get in" asked by newcomers.

- Automatically place players on a flag team when they enter with a ship rather than forcing them to type ?flag

- Enable F7 attach but always make it sap energy. No more "how do I attach" in chat

 

In regards to items:

- Starter kit is confusing since it is unclear which slots it occupies. Replace it with a competitive "stock" setup instead (ion, fusion, ablative, gamma, impact bomb + supplements for instance)

- Remove: Reinforcement, Fission Reactor, Alpha Drive. They are inferior items and only add to an already lengthy items list.

- Combine ?buy armor and ?buy shields into one ?buy protection category. Right now it's confusing since the layout implies you can have both.

- Collapse the guns list by combining single and multifire guns. For example, Disruptor will fire as normal on singlefire but act like Arcfire on multifire. Phaser/Gauss, Beam/Pea, Pulse/Gamma, Positron/Proton are other possible combinations. I think the whole zone would have alot of fun with this idea as well.

- Reduce exp requirements for all items, especially signatures and capacity. Starting out is - and has always been - such a grind.

Edited January 4, 2012 by BZAP

[Corey]

I agree with all of these ideas, except the "combining guns" one. Other then that, all these ideas are something I would like to see done. Especially the flagging ones, and the reduced exp one.

[Cheese]

and a command like ?itemfind explodepixels, which will list all items that modify explodepixels

[Unix]

In regards to flagging:

- Automatically place warbird and javelin on new accounts. This will curb the constant "how do I buy a ship" or "how do I get in" asked by newcomers.

- Automatically place players on a flag team when they enter with a ship rather than forcing them to type ?flag

- Enable F7 attach but always make it sap energy. No more "how do I attach" in chat

Pretty much agree.

 

In regards to items:

- Starter kit is confusing since it is unclear which slots it occupies. Replace it with a competitive "stock" setup instead (ion, fusion, ablative, gamma, impact bomb + supplements for instance)

- Remove: Reinforcement, Fission Reactor, Alpha Drive. They are inferior items and only add to an already lengthy items list.

- Combine ?buy armor and ?buy shields into one ?buy protection category. Right now it's confusing since the layout implies you can have both.

- Collapse the guns list by combining single and multifire guns. For example, Disruptor will fire as normal on singlefire but act like Arcfire on multifire. Phaser/Gauss, Beam/Pea, Pulse/Gamma, Positron/Proton are other possible combinations. I think the whole zone would have alot of fun with this idea as well.

- Reduce exp requirements for all items, especially signatures and capacity. Starting out is - and has always been - such a grind.

Fission/Alpha I agree are kind of stupid. They're "low cost" items, but seriously, if you have money issues in HS, you dont know how to play. Reinforcement is an all around armor, and isnt too shabby, it protects a small amount of every type of damage almost with no negatives.

 

I think we can combine "some" guns to make it easier and also add some more variety into the game. Combining disruptor with arc would be interesting, as well as combining phaser and gauss. Those are prime examples of two guns that can comingle together and make sense and is quite easy to balance. Simply have their multi and nonmulti settings. Arc=Multi on then Disruptor=multi off.

 

For reducing experience, there really isnt a need for that. I think the biggest issue is there's a gap between the nonsig and sig level where there's NOTHING there in between. I might think a staggering item system might be beneficial. Between 0-1000 exp, you have access to some categories, but slowly new item categories start opening up, from 1001-2000, and so on. Similar to how Alien Tech opens up to you at 8k exp with antideath finally being accessible. Item categories that might be more "advanced" would be armor, advanced weaponry, supplements, addons, etc. So it takes more time to complete a ship and experience means more.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Unix

[spidernl]

Before I go into detail replying to your post - most itemset changes I'm not going to bother with for the simple reason that the itemset will be replaced (hopefully) by a new one sometime soon.

 

In regards to flagging:

- Automatically place warbird and javelin on new accounts. This will curb the constant "how do I buy a ship" or "how do I get in" asked by newcomers.

 

Possible, but I believe HSCore currently doesn't play nice with the buyprice = $0 system in place for this. Would need to make some changes and get Dr Brain for a recompile.

I'm not convinced this is that good an idea either - being able to play is all fine and dandy, but they'll have to learn eventually anyways.

 

- Automatically place players on a flag team when they enter with a ship rather than forcing them to type ?flag

 

Bad idea. That'd only work well during fairly high population spikes, during flaggames. Do you really want newcomers to repeatedly get specced for not flagging on a flagging frequency?

 

- Enable F7 attach but always make it sap energy. No more "how do I attach" in chat

 

That also re-enables lag attaching, and it can only be fixed with more packet hacks that I don't want to spend time on right now.

And again: they'll have to learn anyway. Being useless in a zone because you attach with less energy than everyone else will make the zone seem "even more unfair".

 

In regards to items:

- Starter kit is confusing since it is unclear which slots it occupies. Replace it with a competitive "stock" setup instead (ion, fusion, ablative, gamma, impact bomb + supplements for instance)

 

I would have done that if it didn't mean that warbirds would suddenly have to cost several tens of thousands of hyperspace dollaz to compensate for the combined selling price of the items.

 

- Remove: Reinforcement, Fission Reactor, Alpha Drive. They are inferior items and only add to an already lengthy items list.

 

Such items will not exist in any item set I design.

Note that Reinforcement was changed quite a bit. No, it's not super duper good at anything, but it does protect against all kinds of stuff.

Fission/Alpha are obviously useless, though.

 

- Combine ?buy armor and ?buy shields into one ?buy protection category. Right now it's confusing since the layout implies you can have both.

 

I didn't do that because I already had people complaining about the size of categories before. In other words, I split them to make sure people don't have to search through a billion items to find that one armor or shield.

Also: this will be changed should the next item set reach completion.

 

- Collapse the guns list by combining single and multifire guns. For example, Disruptor will fire as normal on singlefire but act like Arcfire on multifire. Phaser/Gauss, Beam/Pea, Pulse/Gamma, Positron/Proton are other possible combinations. I think the whole zone would have alot of fun with this idea as well.

 

The big examples that make some sense - Arcfire and Gauss - also change the compatibilities on ships in a way that's not exactly preferable. Only Javelins really use Arcfire, and they don't get Disruptor. That leaves Gauss, and just changing one of them doesn't make that much sense either

Weapons are also being changed for the next item set.

 

- Reduce exp requirements for all items, especially signatures and capacity. Starting out is - and has always been - such a grind.

 

Probably. Don't know exactly how exp/money will work in the future.

 

Note in general: my item set might not ever get done, don't get your hopes up too much. Just be pleasantly surprised when it's done and it's a nice change.

Edited January 5, 2012 by spidernl

[Corey]

BZAP, on 04 January 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

- Automatically place players on a flag team when they enter with a ship rather than forcing them to type ?flag

 

Bad idea. That'd only work well during fairly high population spikes, during flaggames. Do you really want newcomers to repeatedly get specced for not flagging on a flagging frequency?

 

Doesn't it only spec you when the flags are out of center? And flags usually go out of center during fairly high population times.

[spidernl]

Or if some random guy takes them out of center. Which happens often enough.

It just doesn't work. Having random clueless people who don't read team chat on your team doesn't really help anyone, either.

 

If they can't ?attach because that's "too hard", they won't ?flag. Be glad they don't.

 

I can understand making the place beginner friendly, but it's fine for it to require more than 1/2 a brain cell to play Hyperspace.

[Dr Brain]

The whole point of ?flag was to keep newbies off the flagging frequencies.

[BZAP]

being able to play is all fine and dandy, but they'll have to learn eventually anyways.

A veteran may find this attitude easy to hold. However the problem is not a newcomer's ability to learn but his willingness to stay. I held off on HS for a good while, I admit, because ESC+1 didn't get me in and I wasn't keen on figuring it all out. I picked the next zone down my Continuum list. For all the zone's complexities, we have a very dedicated player base. Imagine if we were able to hook more from the start!

 

Bad idea. That'd only work well during fairly high population spikes, during flaggames. Do you really want newcomers to repeatedly get specced for not flagging on a flagging frequency?

Good point. What about throwing non-flaggers on freqs 0-89, rather than spec? I suggest this because I think it is better to place beginners close to the action, where they can gather cash and kills. Better than being placed in a shark pool, fighting on a lone frequency.

 

I would have done that if it didn't mean that warbirds would suddenly have to cost several tens of thousands of hyperspace dollaz to compensate for the combined selling price of the items.

What's the harm in lowering the buy/sell values of these items? It can be implemented in the same way a lanc comes with starting items (though not very good ones).

[Avast]

More than a brain cell to play? It's not that it's hard to learn to attach. But when I entered HS for example. I had to ask people why F7 doesn't work. I had subspace 11 years. So it's not even a question of being a Vet or a Noob.

 

1. Having to ask others can lead to a bad experience for a new player if they ask someone who feels like being an ass. Meaning the player will be less motivated to stay after they got told off or made fun of for not knowing things.

2. It annoys people to keep repeating the same obvious thing over and over to everyone who enters the zone.

3. There should be zone messages, and a ?help function on the bot detailing how to attach and other game play aspects (i dont know if there is or isn't)

 

This is not a question of being stupid. Complexity itself is a deterrant in games. It's one of the reasons for example I stopped played Dungeons and Dragons Online. Because by level 14, there is too many different places. Different dungeon crawls. So many ingredients and items you can obtain from dungeons to craft different armor etc. And the problem is if you level up, you can't play those dungeons anymore and get those items, so you have to know when do things, and have to stay at level 14 forever, until you accomplish a bunch of lame stuff. I can't be bothered with learning that shit. Or caring about it either. Maybe some WOW kiddie can. I am not saying MORE is bad. So make sure you understand my argument. BZAP clearly wants MORE here, and likes everything about HS. But there is a way to give more, without making it a cluster fuck.

 

PS. BZAP your ideas are too good for Hyperspace, and Subspace as a whole. Which is why they will never be done.

[Unix]

I would think having a special Welcome Message in which players need to disable the new varied welcome message with a new command would work. The welcome message would allow players to know the basics, etc.

 

Some things that could be in the welcome message is info about buying ships, getting onto a flag team and lastly ?attach.

[Cheese]

something i did in distension was to pay attention to when a new player was created in the database, and then set timers accordingly to display pertinent messages

something else to pay attention to is when their dl finishes

[kevinz000]

by corey:I agree with all of these ideas, except the "combining guns" one. Other then that, all these ideas are something I would like to see done. Especially the flagging ones, and the reduced exp one.

sorry im bad at quoting

i agree with all,even combining guns

its annoying having to turn on multifire in this zone/turning it off in others

besides current guns dont suit me:(

EDIT:or new people

Edited January 29, 2012 by kevinz :D

[kevinz000]

BZAP, on 04 January 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

- Enable F7 attach but always make it sap energy. No more "how do I attach" in chat

 

That also re-enables lag attaching, and it can only be fixed with more packet hacks that I don't want to spend time on right now.

And again: they'll have to learn anyway. Being useless in a zone because you attach with less energy than everyone else will make the zone seem "even more unfair".

ok srsly i really want that...THE /?ATTACH IS DRIVING ME CRAZY

also when i first came i kept centering for bounty to attach,THEN FOUND OUT U CANT f7 ATTACH

getting on my nerves,wasting macro spots that i need,basiclly drives new people crazy

[cxc]

I like anything that makes it easier for new people.

 

In the hs core, is there a way to hard code the functionality of f7 to send the personal message '/?attach' instead of its default behavior? basically making it a hard coded marco?

 

For new ships, i think they should come pre-loaded with real items. In each category the lowest item should be a free 'default' item (0 money and exp to buy/sell), if free is not feasible them make them 1 dollar (or what ever the lowest price the code allows) to buy and sell. Then all new ships (1- get loaded up with the default items.

[Cheese]

spidernl can move the ?attach event to the attach packet handler in game.c if he chooses

however, the ss client will stop you from attaching without having full energy, and will never send it probably

 

and those ships already come with a starter kit

[Dav]

I dont think items need lower exp, I think the rewards for a newbie killing an experienced player should be massivly increased though. I really think 20 exp for a <1000 killing a >10000 isnt beyond reasonable. The high rewards should ramp down to current levels quite quick though as the rate of exp increase for everyone else is pretty much fine. Not sure how to do this, probably a simple enought formula that can do it though.

[spidernl]

For the next item set, I'm making the initial 100-200 experience more "rewarding" in the sense that a larger number of items will be "unlocked" in that experience range.

 

A cap increase to 20 exp/kill wouldn't take more than a (few) minute(s).

[»D1st0rt]

A cap increase to 20 exp/kill wouldn't take more than a (few) minute(s).

True, but you would also want to make sure it falls off pretty severely so you don't inflate lesser kills too

[spidernl]

Since I never really replied to all the points:

 

- Automatically place warbird and javelin on new accounts. This will curb the constant "how do I buy a ship" or "how do I get in" asked by newcomers.

 

Possible. But it might be better to have a splash screen explain how to buy ships when you first enter. Might as well introduce players to the buying mechanics of the zone right away, as it's a fairly big deal.

 

- Automatically place players on a flag team when they enter with a ship rather than forcing them to type ?flag

 

That would kick them off into spec rather frequently. Not a good way to be introduced to the zone.

 

- Enable F7 attach but always make it sap energy. No more "how do I attach" in chat

 

I tried something similar to this, and it isn't really possible. Certainly not since I moved some turreting settings from arena settings (which the client cares about) to item properties (which the client doesn't care about at all).

 

- Starter kit is confusing since it is unclear which slots it occupies. Replace it with a competitive "stock" setup instead (ion, fusion, ablative, gamma, impact bomb + supplements for instance)

 

I made the "Starter Kit" item because giving them Ion, Fusion, Ablative, Gamma, Impact and more would make warbirds cost over 20k (otherwise you could make a profit buying and selling starter ships). Raising the starting money would also imply a raise of the 10k "give minimum" to something like 30k, which isn't as preferable.

 

- Collapse the guns list by combining single and multifire guns. For example, Disruptor will fire as normal on singlefire but act like Arcfire on multifire. Phaser/Gauss, Beam/Pea, Pulse/Gamma, Positron/Proton are other possible combinations. I think the whole zone would have alot of fun with this idea as well.

 

A balancing nightmare. Disruptor should not be allowed on Javelins, but Arcfire is a very commonly used item on them.

 

- Reduce exp requirements for all items, especially signatures and capacity. Starting out is - and has always been - such a grind.

 

Particularly signatures and capacities should remain at high experience. Maybe not all signatures, but definitely capacities and some of the more exclusive items. The grind is necessary to keep "hardcore" players interested for the duration of a reset. Being maxed out isn't all that much fun - just look at how the zone always slowly dies before a reset, and then gets a large population boost for a while.

In the next item set there'll be more "item unlocks" in low experience ranges, however. There'll still be high experience items, though.

Edited April 24, 2012 by spidernl