Idea

[DarkFears]

I have no idea if this has been posed before. I recently started playing subspace again and am very disheartened to see the games dying.

 

3 years ago I migrated almost completely to linux, finally choosing linux mint as my preffered linux flavor.

One thing I noticed about linux distros ubuntu and mint (and basically all distros) is their default repositories lack greatly in games, especially games which are multi-player online and also fun and dont require much hardware resource to run (basically 0 if you account for the last bit) I have posed an idea to several veterans who I know, and they seemed to like the idea. Also, i posed the question to many of my friends in the mint community, and they also seemed interested.

 

I realize the continuum client can be ported to linux with patches and wine, that is not what i am interested in or suggesting. What I am suggesting is that a version of continuum or completely new client be developed for linux distros, especially ubuntu/mint debian based distros, I also suggest that this be pushed to be included within the default repositories.

 

The little resistance to the idea that I have encountered deals with linux users only making up 1-10% of the online community as a whole. Even if .5% (yes i said point five) of mint/ubuntu users end up playing subspace/continuum, this would mean hundreds of new players if not more.

 

Consider it please.

[Dr Brain]

This has been suggested hundreds of times. Feel free to program it yourself, but don't expect us to do it for you. Creating a new game is a huge undertaking. Several have tried (and some are still going, see Jabjabjab's thread), but none are (yet) viable replacements.

[Avast]

Keep in mind all who "tried" didn't succeed yet, not because it's hard or impossible, or they don't lack the knowledge or skills necessary. It is because of one of the three really.. they procrastinate, are too busy in real life, or lose motivation.

[Samapico]

If a new client is made, it WILL be playable on linux... That's not the issue. The issue is to actually make a new client. You might not be aware of the fact that we have no access to Continuum's source code, which means it has to be built from scratch. Even if the networking protocols and game physics are mostly (completely?) known, creating such a client is a huge task and as others have pointed out, there's already a bunch of new clients that died halfway (I'm optimistic) through development.

 

Sadly, a new client is also the only thing that can save this community, IMO.

[Avast]

We all know about the source code issues. But this is a 2D game from 1997. You don't need Priitk's source code to make something better than what he did practically 15 years ago. In fact games like this are being made every single day. Most of them have only been in development one year. A person with knowledge and four hours a day available could code something like this in a year. It is not even a graphic intensive game.

 

Examples

Bastion (a little less than two years) - and it's graphic intensive

Terraria (didn't look it up but i bet it was in development for no more than 2 years also)

Altitude (a year or less)

Spark (aka ARC, Attack Reterieve Capture - old game from 1997 also, remade client in less than year)

Subspace clients (development 1 to 10 years and counting - what a joke?)

 

Some of these games have development teams. Only because one single person is not talented enough to do both graphics, and programming. You either are a programmer, or a graphic designer. However some people are very skilled in both. The problem then is time. But it's very possible for one person given that they have the time, and skill in both programming and graphics. Could easily make a subspace client in a year. Not to mention the graphics are already provided for most things. (unless you want to upgrade them) But lets say you still want to argue you need a development team.

 

You have a team. There is around four or five different clients. Being made by different people. All of you get together and meet up. Did you even try? Talk about what your client focuses on. Combine all the pros of each client. Decide on an approach, that allows for best security, feature implimentation, decide on a method of coding. Then use each others code, and work together to make one client. You will be done in no time.

 

Not to mention all the support and resources from the people on ssforums, that you could call upon, for assistance. You don't even need to do graphics. Use all of subspace graphics, just make a way better client, better backend etc. Add more features, improve security. And make it so all the graphics can be updated and improved later with updates. Then get people from subspace forums here to submit their graphics. Once the client is done. And use the best stuff.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Avast

[DarkFears]

I agree avast.

 

My programming skills are far from the level it would require, there are many games in the world that are far more advanced as far as graphics and programming are concerned, they were cloned from closed source games, work great.

 

I wish I could do it, my post would have been completely different if I could. Obviously if we are all here we must have some love for the game. Has anyone tried to get BDE to release the source code to the community, as an asset its not worth much, or so it seems. Priitk still not willing to release it? even though it could potentially save the game from complete death? If it was done once (continuum) it can be done again...

 

Also my point initially is that it shouldn't just be playable, but somehow be included in the default repositories like Nexuiz, open arena, warzone 2100 etc.

[Resol]

I agree avast.

 

I agree to the point that there have been more then 5 attempts to make clients from different people, and the fact that none of the want to go open source, and rather fail trying bothers me. Its a sad state of affairs, it really is.

 

Priitk still not willing to release it? even though it could potentially save the game from complete death? If it was done once (continuum) it can be done again...

 

What Priitk did was hack the subspace source, he wont release it in fear of exposing security. He would rather see this game rot than give up his name in being the al mighty great douche that did something for a large community that still to this day wishes they could have been the one.

 

I know for a fact that Priitk rather watch his client rot than give up any source or help, just look at what he did to catid for exposing issue in the biller.

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and as far as saving this game, there is no saving it. Bottom line. There is absolutely nothing, you, I, or anyone else in the entire world that can "save this game". Its nearly.. what 15 years old.

 

The fact that this game and is players are still around at all is a fluke, honestly.

 

The only reason it's still here today is because it was one of the first online games, and the players refuse to let it go. As long as people are willing to host servers and events, this game will never die.You can't compare subspace to any of the games that are coming out now, or even games that have come out in the past 10 years.

 

Its old, its beat, and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

A new client is going to be like "Polishing a Turd". What's underneath is what matters..

 

You may not like it, but it is what is.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Resol

[»Lynx]

A person with knowledge and four hours a day available could code something like this in a year. It is not even a graphic intensive game.

 

Four hours a day, eh? That's half a days work. That's half a day away from family, friends and relaxing. I mean, if you want to drop half a years salary on the table (for somebody knowledgable, of course) then feel free.

 

Blabber about a bunch of games that are nothing like Subspace.

 

None of which are free. All of which come from game studios, where teams of people develop for more than four hours a day.

 

Genius solution to all our problems: `copy, paste ????, PROFIT!!!`

 

You're an idiot.

 

Lul jst gt da ppl frm SSFN 2 help cuz dey dwn f4 dat sht lol we r gna win cuz surly bkend and sht is ez we nevr see dt explod wen we pew pew

 

Anyway, my point is that developing a video game is not easy. Developing a video game that people are actually going to play is difficult. Oh, and that you've no clue what you're talking about.

[DarkFears]

I realize it isn't easy, I realize not very many people have time for this kind of thing. I also realize subspace/continuum is very old and outdated graphically. Windows users have so much more to choose from these days, and I guess that was kind of a point I was trying to make. BSD & Linux users do not have much to choose from if they dont wan't to spend hours compiling and tweaking stuff to make games work. The majority of BSD and Linux users are an older crowd with an appreciation for the nostalgic.

 

So what if the game is old? The game play is still relevant. Just suggesting that if a new user base is opened up it might extend the life of the game for another decade, maybe slightly less.

[DarkFears]

Didn't really mean for a flame war to start. Cannot be done, can be done. Don't really take opinions as facts... Is anyone willing to do it, or to contribute if a team is gathered or something is put into place. Has PriitK been contacted before? and how can he be contacted now.

 

Btw, polishing a turd and restoring a classic are two entirely different things.

[Dav]

ignore the flame war, sometimes people just cant help themselves...

 

thread cleaned up, Avast and cheese go flame elsewhere kthxbye

[Dr Brain]

I have always believed (rightly or wrongly) that the reason PriitK won't release the source to Continuum is a legal reason rather than anything else. I think it would put him at risk from lawsuits (and I'm not just talking about whoever owns the rights to SS, there are other factors to consider), and there's no way he'd put himself in that position for a 15 year old game.

 

The security rationale sounds good, but it's simply not true. He's released enough info over the years to people to allow them to completely crack the continuum security. Enough so that passing the source onto another person wouldn't be any more risky than what he's already done. There has to be another reason behind his source hoarding.

 

Those people that think he doesn't care are idiots. He pays more per month for hosting this game than anyone else. If he didn't care, he wouldn't shell out the money for it.

[Avast]

Four hours a day, eh? That's half a days work. That's half a day away from family, friends and relaxing. I mean, if you want to drop half a years salary on the table (for somebody knowledgable, of course) then feel free.

 

Four hours a day is not half a days work. How many more bad analogies are you going to give? 4 hours is approximatly 16% of a day. That is less than half a days work. That is not even 1/4 of a day.

 

As for losing pay from a job. You must be lazy. Most people only work 8 hours a day. That leaves 16 hours free. Four of which one could code if you had an ounce of dedication or integrity.

 

By the way 8 hours of work is only 33% of a day. With not even half your day gone you have plenty of time for other things.

 

 

 

None of which are free. All of which come from game studios, where teams of people develop for more than four hours a day.

 

Who cares if they are free or not? Oh right someone greedy like you. No one said you have to code anything. If your only concerned about money then you are losing money by wasting time here trying to prove something to me. Go and make money, i want to see how much you can achieve with your limitation on thinking. People who are really succesful do not get that way by worrying about money first of all, or by being stingy. If you give, then you get. It works that way only.

 

Secondly I already adressed how some of those games have development teams. Maybe learn to read.

 

Anyway, my point is that developing a video game is not easy. Developing a video game that people are actually going to play is difficult. Oh, and that you've no clue what you're talking about.

 

Did you see the word easy anywhere in my original post retard? Here is a tip in your browser. Edit. Find. Type in Easy. Then go and improve your comprehension skills. Since your argueing an argument I NEVER MADE.

 

I think you have no clue what your talking about.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Avast

[Cheese]

Those people that think he doesn't care are idiots. He pays more per month for hosting this game than anyone else. If he didn't care, he wouldn't shell out the money for it.

game, set, match

Edited December 22, 2011 by Cheese

[Dr Brain]

Avast admits to not having an "ounce of dedication or integrity." Awesome.

[»Lynx]

Avast admits to not having an "ounce of dedication or integrity." Awesome.

 

He just sent me this via a private message.

[Dr Brain]

Ah, it was pending approval. Maybe that's why it caught my eye. I usually don't read his posts.

[DarkFears]

I think he does care... but maybe its kind of the same reason someone doesn't give up ownership of a squad, or zone for many years, they feel it is theirs? maybe he is secretly designing a new client or totally new subspace game

[»jabjabjab]

Seems like every topic on this for the past few years has ended with some self-centered domination on what philosophies had ruined the complex of projects to restore the game.

 

This topic was started by DarkFears, who wished to speak about a linux option for our community, which I really find interest in. I will have you know i am using java, with the same libraries that of minecraft, that has natives suitable for linux distros. I am positive Aphelion could run on linux just fine (ignoring a potential array of small issues i have never heard of for minecraft).

 

I like Dr Brain's looks on PriitK's decisions, and I do not care for him at this point, but I don't complain about him doing what he did, because it is what he did that got me here, and I appreciate that he kept something alive that became my playground to learn what i love to do so soon. It is time for us to leave PriitK out of the 'what if' conversations, because I am sure he had chosen if not one of the best routes for something he didnt profit off of.

 

 

DarkFears, when i get a few steps further into my software I will look into your query. I had this in thought upon creation of the project.

[DarkFears]

Thanks jabjabjab!

[PoLiX]

Continuum was not a ground up operation. I think anyone looking at the timeline could figure that out (Priit's announcement to the first test release). Priit was not the solo coder of continuum. At the time continuum technically was illegal due to it having subspace code owned by BDE, & other code that was technically BDE's property included in it.

 

It is a big messy web of crap that Continuum is stuck in. Really the only reason I think BDE never touched us beyond us being non-profitable to them, is Priit's work on KaZaA.

[»Axe Demento]

Hello all,

 

The client exists whether it is old or not therefor the game exisits the best way to get people to play subspace is to play subpace. Instead of hours of work for development teams etc just put in 1 hour of play a day. Instead of recruiting people to code get people into the zone you enjoy playing. Teach someone how to play the game or practice and learn it. i enjoying playing the game as is evident from the last 8 weeks just play the game, its not the game that is a problem the game exisits.

 

If you can write something to make it run on linex more smoothly like an adapter do so then your linex base can use the game.

 

Thanks to anyone who plays the game.

Thanks to anyone who supports the game

Thanks to anyone who is in the zone to kill

Thanks to anyone who is in the zone killing me.

Thanks to anyone who puts money into supporting the game.

 

A merry christmas and remember chess for the most part hasn't changed in a while and the graphics on tic/tac/toe aren't that advanced but people play it.

 

...Axe

 

Come to chaos for the holidays lets kill each other.

....DEMENTO

[»Axe Demento]

Wow i only read the first few posts on this article and didnt see the following ones which i just noticed after posting my little comments.

Complaining about Prit who helped me play this game when i want seems even more useless than worrying about getting killed.

 

 

A thank you to Prit

A thank you to Pollix

A thank you to Hallu

 

this is my christmas trinity! or perhaps the 3 wise men of subspace.

 

...Axe

 

ps Stop complaining/come play the game/ i think you can just download it off this sight

[DarkFears]

Axe Demento - I appreciate your advice/viewpoint but everyone I know knows about subspace/continuum and chooses not to play anymore, I do play, and I would like to see the zone populations grow so it is once again enjoyable to play. I realize TW and to a lesser degree EG have populations but those aren't zones I am talking about, and eventually those will die as well. I simply suggested Linux as a way to expand the user base on more of a mass level. I am almost 30 years old now, most of my friends don't even game anymore

[Dav]

Thread cleaned up and priitt projects sub discussion split into a new thread.