juh? Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 So I'm wondering why it is that people don't like playing in DSB. I would greatly appreciate you guys/girls listing any and all issues you may have with the zone. What reasons keep you from playing there? Thank you for your input,it is greatly appreciated.
Avast Posted June 10, 2011 Report Posted June 10, 2011 Whats wrong with dsb, is that dsb staff keeps asking this question..
SeVeR Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 Yea I'm so tired of saying the same thing. People come to DSB and are like "what do we do here?"
spidernl Posted June 13, 2011 Report Posted June 13, 2011 A public arena with no purpose. Because most zones have a public arena with a purpose, right?I mean, clearly Trench Wars has the population it has due to the fact that its public arena has a purpose.
Cheese Posted June 13, 2011 Report Posted June 13, 2011 clearly dutchmanNL has set foot in Trench Wars
Avast Posted June 14, 2011 Report Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) This is whats wrong with DSB all the time. The people in Charge. I kept saying we should have a bot which Auto Gags players based on a voting system. So people can not evade gags. I also promote that Bans should only be for cheaters, and gags only used in extreme circumstances. The whole purpose of this bot is to protect players objectively. This way when someone gets gagged by a bot. No one can turn around and blame the bot. If ten people in the community choose to gag a player. No one can blame the community for something they brought upon themselves. People claim the system can be abused with votes. But I said you can have the MOD or Sysop on duty approve the vote once it's done. This in turn removes all staff involvement from protecting DSB Rules. No one can say staff abused when all staff did was approve a vote by 10 players, and no one can claim the bot is at fault for following programming. Avast> ?find entEnt is in SSCU Death Star Battle:ent:this is what i mean by abuse:ent:i never agreed to anything:ent:furthermore its becoming a popularity contest, when the owner of the zone and sysop makes announcements about it(Ent)>it's a trial run of your system:ent: but if you just have the bot, and people can vote:Ent:no its not(Ent)>and you're free to play at any rate (Ent)>it is(Ent)>people voted:Ent:its not a trial run i never agreed(Ent)>and i approved(Ent)>you don't have to agree:Ent:thats abuse this is my point(Ent)>people who get gagged will never agree(Ent)>that's my point:Ent:no its abuse(Ent)>your system is just as prone to abuse as any:Ent:nope(Ent)>yes :Ent:you never tested my system yet, because you gagged me(Ent)>this IS your system:Ent:put a real bot there, with votes:Ent:nope(Ent)>people voted:Ent:you announced if people want me gagged(Ent)>and i approved:Ent:there was only 4 votes:Ent:not 5 or 6 FYI I explained the bot can gauge who is active in the 22 player zone. I know bots can calculate who talked last and how long ago it happened. So if 12 people are active in a 22 player zone, and you program the gag bot to gag with 50% votes. We would have needed 6 votes to gag me. Ent only had 4 votes, in his personal poll to gag me. And he still went through with it. Trying desperately to prove his point and act superior. :Ent:also(Ent)>same as me saying "there's a new vote gag bot" (Are you kidding it's not the same thing. Are all zone owners born retarded?) :Ent:and 1 voted No to top it off even if he was joking(Ent)>would have happened exactly the same:Ent:nope:Ent:it wouldn't have:Ent:do you know anything about science?:Ent:you contaminated the experiment sorry:Ent:And you also never asked the subjects approval:Ent:if this was a real project, and you tested drugs on me, i could sue you:Ent:thats called abuse:Ent:grow a brain sometime Then what does Ent do? Furious that I disagree with him, he decides to "test" my idea. Though if he was a scientist he would know this is not a controlled test. He contaminated it by calling his own vote for who wants to gag me. Bots do not call for votes first of all. Which already shows why his test was wrong. Secondly treating people like guinea pigs? Without their permission? If someone forces you to take drugs for research. I am pretty sure that's abuse. A real test would have been to make the bot, and have a vote system, and see what happens with this new feature in place. At least any sensible person would agree. (Ent)>yeah, except here i did everyone a favor, and shut you up for 10 minutes:Ent:now i approve to test this with a real bot(Ent)>in the name of science:Ent:then your proving my point that staff will abuse this, especially if the sysop does, and all the more reason it should be done my way:Ent:notice how i am blaming you:Ent:if it was truly community driven, or objective with a bot, i wouldn't even talk to you of abuse:Ent:you create a vicious circle of bad atmosphere:Ent:you think your winning by gagging me for no reason for 10 minutes, lol:Ent:ANYWAY you can ungag me now(Ent)>you have 80 secs left:Ent:why don't you do a full test, and test the ungag feature:Ent:in the name of "testing" without even asking people,:Ent:treating me like a guinea pig:Ent:good call to having a friendly zone:Ent:moron:Ent:your in power i expect better from you:Ent:when you have no power you can act how you want The whole reason for my idea, was that it would remove this scrutiny and blame game, and hatred toward DSB staff. My idea was doing them a favor. Instead they didn't follow my idea. Sure they made a gag bot. But it's an enforcer now. The op's have direct control, and tell the bot to auto gag whoever they want. And the community obviously has no part. This means staff will abuse gags, and the viscous circle of hating DSB staff will continue into oblivion. And yes they have abused gags before. In fact come to DSB if you want to be used for DSB STAFFS tests. (Ent)>oh just stop whining, you've honestly had this coming for weeks with your spam+disrespect+being an asshole to everyone, AND you can still play the game, i did not ban you(Ent)>so take it like a man:Ent:LOL where is the rules:Ent:are you doing things based on rules or some misguided sense of vengeance and revenge(Ent)>rules:Ent:when i do something, thats when you act, if you did not act, then i did nothing wrong:Ent:you dont wait weeks, and then say i had it coming retard:Ent:you didn't do nothing for weeks, because for weeks, i did nothing wrong:Ent:get real:Ent:im posting all of this on ssforums:Ent:now because you pissed me off:Ent:let them see the immature staff in dsb(Ent)>i'm not ashamed of gagging you, it honestly made pub better for everyone, and there was just cause. i probably should have warned you first, that was my mistake(Ent)>but i don't regret it, test successful(Ent)>thanks for your participation:Ent:well if you want this circle to continue, you sure found a way to keep it going, lets see how well your zone gets by with your clear sense of misdirection in everything:Ent:including how to deal with people(Ent)>i've been extremely patient and tolerant with you(Ent)>and you're still not banned, or gagged(Ent)>so shut up, please(Ent)>and move on:Ent:i should never have been gagged:Ent:admit it(Ent)>i should have gagged you 2 weeks ago:Ent:then why didn't you?:Ent:if that was true, you would have(Ent)>benefit of the doubt?:Ent:you had no just cause:Ent:no i broke no rules, or you would have gagged me two weeks ago:Ent:you have no logic at all(Ent)>you've broken numerous rules(Ent)>well 1, really(Ent)>and arguably 2:Ent:just admit i did nothing wrong, and you gagged me without permission for your selfish tests to try and prove your right, and feel strong To cover his failure. He says it was a test. Then changes the story saying I deserve it? So from an objective reason for gagging me, he goes to a personal one? Really now? And If I had these gags A LONG TIME COMING. Why didn't he just gag me two weeks ago, or a month ago? Or immediately after I said whatever I said to deserve the gag? Why wait 3 months and then say i deserved it 1-3 months later? COULD IT BE I BREAK NO DSB RULES? Edited June 14, 2011 by Avast
Manwh0re Posted June 14, 2011 Report Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Actual log (avast = falconeer) Falconeer> you cant even get 10 people Falconeer> to vote to gag me Falconeer> right now Falconeer> you have manwhore and hece Falconeer> thats it Falconeer> cann? Falconeer> do we have 10 people here Ent> half of pub is afk Falconeer> do i have to recruit the 10 people? Ent> your system is flawed Falconeer> lol Falconeer> lol no its not Falconeer> the system is however you program it Falconeer> retard Falconeer> i would think the programmer knows that much Falconeer> 22 people in pub, you could make bot allocate the active ones Falconeer> and then require 40% of those numbers to vote Ent> i know how i programmed the sysem that is actually in place cann> what the fuck are you talking about gagging yourself for? cann> you really are fucking retarded... Manwh0re> if there was a vote that took "yes" and "no" and gagged you if there were more yes's than no's, you would be gagged every single time falc Falconeer> im saying they think i will be gagged everyday Falconeer> if there is 1 no Falconeer> the vote is flawed Falconeer> lol Falconeer> i mean if im talking to my friend Falconeer> and my friend wants to hear what i have to say Falconeer> then obviously what im saying is useful Falconeer> and i shouldn't be gagged Falconeer> i know the bot can locate active people Falconeer> even in spec Falconeer> so assuming 12 of 22 people in here are active cann> You are a dime a dozen and a pest. Falconeer> you need 6 votes to gag me Falconeer> if your doing 50% Falconeer> if your doing 40% you need only 5 votes to gag me Falconeer> is there 5 active people in here who would gag me Falconeer> we have 2 Falconeer> hece and manwhore cann> who give a FUCK about gagging you... are you some kind of faggot or nasty slut? Ent> okokok Ent> i'll take a vote right now Ent> if you want falc gagged for 10 minutes, type 1, if not, type 0 Manwh0re> 1 the ?uesti> 4 Boris> 1 pro turret> 0 the ?uesti> 1 Falconeer> why would i care about 10 minutes Falconeer> you should say all day Falconeer> if its 10 minutes, the public wont care either pro turret> bein gagged is like a slap on the wrist Falconeer> theyll be like sure why not pro turret> he needs to be netbanned Ent> well falc Ent> majority rules Falconeer> i would never get netbanned Manwh0re> 3 vote yes to gag, 1 votes ban instead Ent> let's give your system a test runC 7:DSB-BOT> falconeer has been gagged for: 600 seconds by: Ent Edited June 14, 2011 by Manwh0re
Avast Posted June 14, 2011 Report Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Yeah i said nothing to deserve a gag. No insults, no Racism, just opinion on my own IDEA. I never agreed to Ents test. I was saying you can't get votes to gag me. If your capable of reading English that means, you can't get votes, it doesn't mean if you get votes to gag me. Make more excuses, when you know you are wrong. You also only had 3 votes on yes. And 1 vote on No. Pro Turret joking doesn't matter. If he joked with the bot the bot would count it as a No. If this was a proper test you would do it with a bot, and not INSINUATE and/or Use your INFLUENCE as a Sysop, to ask for votes. 3 Votes, when it was clear in a 22 player zone, at least 12 people were active at the moment, and you needed 50% half. 3 VS 6. You and Entropy are either blind, or can't count. Then changing it from a TEST, to saying I deserved it. Your integrity is wavering for a reason. That usually happens with liars. They tell one story and then keep changing it when you keep asking questions. Good Job Fail Zone. Edited June 14, 2011 by Samapico No need to quote that entire wall of text that is just up there... geez...
Resol Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 There is nothing wrong with DSB. It was the first zone I played in back in 2000. And its still a great zone. Some issues: 1. The public / events never updated or developed.2. A lot of "vet" players that call anyone new newbie and troll them to not play.3. If this game wasn't dead, neither would DSB be.
Entr0py Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 lol And, we had 5 votes: me, manwh0re, pro turret (he voted to ban, actually), the ?uestion, and Boris. You didn't have to break any rules to get gagged, under your system. That was the point. Your system turns it into a popularity contest. There is no accountability whatsoever, and anyone can get gagged for any reason. And, if you make gags require staff approval, then there is no point in having the voting system in the first place.
Avast Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 (edited) lol And, we had 5 votes: me, manwh0re, pro turret (he voted to ban, actually), the ?uestion, and Boris. You didn't have to break any rules to get gagged, under your system. That was the point. Your system turns it into a popularity contest. There is no accountability whatsoever, and anyone can get gagged for any reason. And, if you make gags require staff approval, then there is no point in having the voting system in the first place. My system was with staff approval first of all. So you did not test my system. If you DID however as staff approve that. Then you proved staff approves abusive things. So all the more reason they should not be using a bot as an ENFORCER. You just abused powers. You never asked if I would agree to being gagged. I said you couldn't get votes and that's all I said. And if you did call "The vote gag bot is up" Not a single person would have typed !votegag falconeer to the bot. It won't be abused, lets do a real test, put the bot up and you will see. But I guess you only give yourself chances to prove people wrong. You wouldn't dare give me a chance to prove you wrong. Because You would lose. Sorry i only see three 1's on the screen, and in the chat log. You had only three votes. I don't care who else you assume would vote. You told them to type 1. If they didn't then you lost the vote. You knew you lost and abused your own vote, and powers to prove some point that the system would be abused. But it wouldn't be abused. Especially if you do it the way I tell you. You are just afraid it will work as usual. I already explained the point of a voting system. The players are not the middle men. THEY ARE THE DECIDERS. Staff doesn't vote, or decide who gets gagged at all. They just approve or disapprove the vote so there is no abuse. Like If I entered pub and said nothing and got vote gagged when I said nothing. The whole reason staff doesn't decide is to keep them objectively out of it. No room for abuse, and no room for people who get gagged to hate on staff afterward. Hence a positive and friendly environment then. However if we do things your way you can see how I am blaming staff. That's because it was not objective, it was not by a bot at all. And it was not voted on by the community. You created more problems than it was worth, and this is why everyone discredits or dislikes DSB STAFF. Edited June 15, 2011 by Avast
»Lynx Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 You leave it to your players to decide whether another player gets (banned/silenced). Can you not see the conflict of interest there? No wonder why your zone is apparently dying. If players are being annoying in an arena, why don't you save yourself the time of having to defend a crappy system such as this one and let your players know about a great in-game feature; ?ignore.
spidernl Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 (edited) You leave it to your players to decide whether another player gets (banned/silenced). Can you not see the conflict of interest there? No wonder why your zone is apparently dying. If players are being annoying in an arena, why don't you save yourself the time of having to defend a crappy system such as this one and let your players know about a great in-game feature; ?ignore. This one has a point.Did it never occur to you that letting the population ban/silence/kick other players on demand might be a tad exploitable? Edit: If the big problem in DSB is the staff, why not just start over. Fire every single staffer and hire other players.If the zone staff can't fix its own problems, how do you expect it to fix other people's problems anyhow? Edited June 15, 2011 by spidernl
Avast Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 (edited) You leave it to your players to decide whether another player gets (banned/silenced). Can you not see the conflict of interest there? No wonder why your zone is apparently dying. If players are being annoying in an arena, why don't you save yourself the time of having to defend a crappy system such as this one and let your players know about a great in-game feature; ?ignore. This one has a point.Did it never occur to you that letting the population ban/silence/kick other players on demand might be a tad exploitable? Edit: If the big problem in DSB is the staff, why not just start over. Fire every single staffer and hire other players.If the zone staff can't fix its own problems, how do you expect it to fix other people's problems anyhow? I'm happy with ?ignore, but staff isn't. They want to gag players. And have an auto gag feature so players can't evade. Mostly because they agreed that Bans for stupid things like talking was too extreme. So I proposed a vote-gag bot. If you ever played games like Ultima online 1999, where you have full player killing, looting, and house looting. You would know that systems with complete freedom, although you expect chaos, have complete social order instead. People go out of their way to make friends in those games, so they don't get killed every second. And they watch what they say, there is a lot of mutual respect etc. This is why if you have a properly coded bot, such a system could never be abused. You can program it like this for example. 50 people in the zone. The bot gauges who is active. 20 Active. So you need 12 votes or 60% to gag someone roughly. That's 12 people. You think thats easy? The person would have to be really going out of their way to piss off half a zone. Then Staff approves or declines the 12 votes to gag the player. And its a fair thing, without staff involvement. No blame games. You obviously never entered DSB. And while it seems like I am opposed to staff, it's basically the whole zone, who has no respect, trust, or belief in DSB STAFF. And this is in large part due to their methods, policies that they keep from Hoch, and way of running staff itself. I only proposed a vote gag bot, because its way better than staff having full control with zero transparency and abusing gags. Which they have done several, several times already. I doubt staff would remove themselves. I don't think people are so useless they should be removed either. At the most demoted and promoted based on what they do, and their activity. Beer hunter for example never players. He sits in spec all day. He never greets players even. He doesn't even talk in spec. Yet he is sysop. He doesn't code, but I don't blame him for not knowing how to code. However he doesn't map either. And anyone can map. For example I would demote Beer Hunter instantly, and tell him if he wants Sysop, he needs to play the game, and do certain things. People who go inactive should be removed, and if at any time they want to come back, can easily get back their old position. We have a zone owner liito who logs in every 8 days. This isn't very inspiring to a dying zone. What gets me the most is when I bring up things, ideas, leagues, stuff that needs to be fixed, or improved upon. Many people in staff, including entropy, manwhore, and others, reply with Who cares? I care. You should care. If you don't care then why are you on staff? It's obvious how much they care anyway I don't need to prove it. Just enter DSB and watch the 1vs1 game. Edited June 15, 2011 by Avast
»Lynx Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Have none of you guys have heard the expression "don't feed the trolls"? If somebody is talking too much shit, ?ignore them. I don't see the reason at all for these extra complexities; instead of proposing a bot to make things even more complex, remove the issue all together.
Entr0py Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 You leave it to your players to decide whether another player gets (banned/silenced). Can you not see the conflict of interest there? No wonder why your zone is apparently dying. If players are being annoying in an arena, why don't you save yourself the time of having to defend a crappy system such as this one and let your players know about a great in-game feature; ?ignore. Obviously. We do not leave it to players to decide whether another player gets (banned/silenced). That's what staff is for. Falconeer WANTS us to use such a system. This whole log/discussion is from when I "tested" it to show him how terrible of an idea it is. @Falc: I showed you that your system is just as prone to abuse as if only moderators had the gag power. They can approve/disapprove of gags just as easily as they could give them. That's nothing new. If staff DOES abuse, there are consequences, including possible firing as a moderator. We do tell people to use ?ignore. But, when someone is spamming/using racism in the public chat, that has to be dealt with using the new gag feature. We can't just tell EVERYONE in the arena to ?ignore some guy. That's just stupid.
»Lynx Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Lol... So no different from a bot-silence. What a non-issue.
Entr0py Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Lol... So no different from a bot-silence. What a non-issue.^
Avast Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 (edited) Were you born a retard? @Falc: I showed you that your system is just as prone to abuse as if only moderators had the gag power. They can approve/disapprove of gags just as easily as they could give them. That's nothing new. If staff DOES abuse, there are consequences, including possible firing as a moderator. You proved how Mods can Abuse even with my system? That's what you said. Which means you admit you abused for starters. Good I am glad we are getting somewhere. So now to point out why you are a retard. My system involves 12 people. Not 1 Abusive Sysop. You proved nothing. With 12 people in the loop the Sysop can not abuse. The Sysop doesn't even vote. They just approve votes of others. If its only moderators, then 1 person can abuse easily, and claim they are enforcing DSB rules. Or claim they are doing what the community wants. How about you let the community decide what they want, and stop telling us what you think they want. And you still never used the system I proposed. Let me know when you are ready to. But, when someone is spamming/using racism in the public chat, that has to be dealt with using the new gag feature. We can't just tell EVERYONE in the arena to ?ignore some guy. That's just stupid. What people don't know here is that DSB Staff abuses gag because they get angry and can't ban players since that type of punishment is losing its appeal in DSB. I have been gagged plenty of times with no warnings, and killed, and I have used no racism, and did no spam. Prove otherwise. And then explain yourself. All I do is express my opinion. Define spam, show me the DSB rules I break. Where are the rules? Lets go further you guys gagged Dark Chemist, and initially he didn't do anything. Of course after being gagged 30 times, he got pissed off and started to act out. Lets be honest, most racism is overlooked when staff is there, and half the time staff isn't even in the zone. You guys gag based on personal preferences and personal vendettas, because I sometimes point out why the zone and you are failing. I would easily stop that, all you have to do is make a rule, and put it on the website. Players can not tell staff why the zone is failing. I always follow rules. Just make sure they exist first. Edited June 16, 2011 by Avast
SeVeR Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 lol falc you gotta stop saying stuff like "where you born a retard" and "your an idiot", it's funny, but not in the good way for you. Whoever implied Trench Wars has no purpose is an idiot though. The purpose 90% of the time I have played TW pub is to capture the flag and defend it. Very rarely does everyone ignore the flag and mindlessly fly around shooting people, although I left around the time TW introduced rewards for sprees, which was damaging the flagging game a lot. Maybe the pub arena has no purpose now, I don't know because I gave up TW then.
Avast Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) lol falc you gotta stop saying stuff like "where you born a retard" and "your an idiot", it's funny, but not in the good way for you. Whoever implied Trench Wars has no purpose is an idiot though. The purpose 90% of the time I have played TW pub is to capture the flag and defend it. Very rarely does everyone ignore the flag and mindlessly fly around shooting people, although I left around the time TW introduced rewards for sprees, which was damaging the flagging game a lot. Maybe the pub arena has no purpose now, I don't know because I gave up TW then. Meh I don't want people to start thinking I act different here from DSB forums. Here corrected it. Your* stays always though. Edited June 16, 2011 by Avast
spidernl Posted June 19, 2011 Report Posted June 19, 2011 So what was wrong with my suggestion to hire competent staff, rather than powertripping idiots?
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